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RealTemp resetting my overclock?

Discussion in 'RealTemp' started by Am*, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. Am*

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    I'm having the weirdest issue with RealTemp. Every single time I run it, it completely resets my overclock from 4.4GHz back to 3.3GHz and CPU-Z confirmed this for me. No matter what I do at my overclocked speed, it runs fine until I run RealTemp, which resets my overclock somehow. Can someone tell me why it would do that, somehow overriding my BIOS settings and if there's a fix for this down the line?
     
  2. unclewebb

    unclewebb RealTemp Author

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    There is an option in the Settings window called Disable Turbo. Make sure that box is NOT checked.

    That RealTemp "feature" seems to screw up a lot of people so I will have to put a big warning sign on it in the future. It's a great way to easily reduce the peak CPU temp in a laptop but not so great when it kills your desktop OC and you are left running at the default MHz.

    Some motherboards lead users to believe that they can disable Turbo Boost and just run a high multiplier instead. This isn't true. Any multiplier higher than the default multiplier requires Turbo Boost to be activated within the CPU.
     
  3. bluyckx New Member

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    What could also be the case as I discovered is that you are running realtemp gt on a 4 core pc instead of a 6 core. If you run GT on a 4 core, the clock speeds reset to default. Run the regular realtemp on a 4 core and all will be fine.
     
  4. Trondster New Member

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    That's not quite true - several CPU's are unlocked (like mine).

    I have a six-core x3690, which has an unlocked multiplier. Every time I start up Real Temp, Real Temp GT or i7 Turbo GT, it downclocks my CPU to the default (26x). i7 Turbo GT mistakenly believes that I have enabled EIST - it is disabled in BIOS. And - disable turbo is not checked in i7 Turbo GT, even though I have disabled turbo in BIOS.


    This is a very annoying issue, and prevents me from using Real Temp for monitoring my temperatures when overclocking. I used Real Temp with my i7 950, but can't use it with my new CPU.

    It would be a Very Good Thing if Real Temp displayed temperatures and multipliers, instead of attempting to adjust clock settings - especially when changing the existing settings set in BIOS, just by starting the program.
     
  5. unclewebb

    unclewebb RealTemp Author

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    Trondster - Can you post a CPU-Z screenshot? On the Intel Ark site I found a Xeon W3690 which has 6 cores but I want to make sure that we are talking about the same CPU.

    http://ark.intel.com/products/52586/Intel-Xeon-Processor-W3690-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

    Is your CPU an ES CPU? Some of the early ES CPUs are unique and can have a combination of features from different retail CPUs. What motherboard are you using? Is this CPU on the list of supported processors for your motherboard? A CPU-Z screenshot will help answer some questions I have.

    A big problem is that some of the major motherboard manufacturers like Asus and Gigabyte never followed the Intel definition of EIST (SpeedStep) or Turbo Boost. There can be options in the bios that you can enable or disable but when your computer starts booting up, before Windows loads, these settings will get changed without you ever knowing about it. As a user, you know what you checked off in the bios. You know that EIST was disabled but guess what? Many Asus motherboards will completely ignore your EIST request. When you disable EIST / SpeedStep in the bios, it automatically gets enabled before your computer loads Windows. That is very confusing to users because they are sure that they disabled EIST in the bios. In most versions of Windows, if you look in the Control Panel - Power Options and you can select the Balanced profile then that usually means that EIST really is enabled within the CPU.

    If you would like me to confirm if your motherboard has this "feature", then boot up your computer, run CPU-Z and go to the About tab and click on the Save Report (.TXT) button and upload this info somewhere convenient like www.pastebin.com so I can have a look. Run this test before running RealTemp or any other software so I can have a look at how the bios has setup the registers within your CPU.

    There is a similar problem with Turbo Boost. Some Gigabyte motherboards have an option in the bios to disable Turbo Boost. That's fine but what the bios does before Windows loads up is it looks at the multiplier that you have requested. If this multiplier is higher than the default multiplier, Turbo Boost will automatically get turned back on before Windows loads up. It has to. There is no other way to run the highest multiplier. An unlocked multiplier might make you think that you can run the highest multiplier with Turbo Boost disabled but internally, inside the CPU, Turbo Boost needs to be turned on. Once again this is another misleading bios option which has brain washed a lot of people into thinking that Turbo Boost is optional when in fact it is not.

    i7 Turbo GT was just a program I put together for testing purposes. If it has a few bugs I wouldn't be surprised. It is one of those programs that if it is of any use to you, great. If not, don't use it. I received virtually zero feedback so I assumed that it was not very useful and didn't bother working on it any further.

    You have a 6 core CPU so in theory, you should be running RealTemp GT and this program should work correctly on your CPU.

    If your bios is working correctly and you have selected Disable Turbo, your maximum multiplier should be the default multiplier for your CPU which is 26. It does not matter if your CPU is unlocked. Same goes with RealTemp GT. If you select Disable Turbo your maximum multiplier will be 26. Regardless of what any bios tells you, that is how Intel designed their CPUs.

    One other thing that is misunderstood about Intel Turbo Boost 1.0 is that the maximum multiplier depends on whether the C States are enabled. An example of this is the Core i7-920. Everyone thinks that the maximum multiplier is 21 but if C3 or C6 is enabled then the maximum multiplier when a single core is active increases to 22. That's how the "you cannot overclock and use C States" myth got started. Many users did not realize that enabling the C States was also changing the maximum speed of their CPU. A completely stable overclock would suddenly become unstable so the C States got the blame. The real problem was the change in multiplier from 21 to 22. A stable 4000 MHz overclock would change to almost 4200 MHz, all because of the C States.

    Anyway, show me some more info and tell me exactly what multiplier you are trying to use so I can look into this further.
     
  6. Trondster New Member

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    Hi,

    Yes, it is in deed the w3690 I have - I bought it used on eBay, and as far as I know it is not an engineering sample:
    IMG_0685_crop.jpg

    My motherboard is GA-EX58-UD5 (newest BIOS; F13) - it supports the newer hexacores like X5650, and w3690 is even explicitly listed on the supported CPU's page: http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2958

    Here's my CPU-Z validation: http://valid.canardpc.com/dwjznf , and here is the report: http://pastebin.com/JFK179dQ
    I chose 32x as a multiplier, for a speed of 4.26GHz.

    The w3680, w3690, i7-980X and i7-990X have all got unlocked multipliers.

    In the BIOS I can select any multiplier up to 66 - when I choose a multiplier and boot, CPU-Z reports my chosen multiplier as the maximum multiplier.
     
  7. EarthDog

    EarthDog

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    Only the 'x' cpus should have an unlocked multiplier past their turbo rating... ;)
     
  8. Trondster New Member

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    In theory, yes - but there are several reports on the web of unlocked Xeon W3680's and W3690's - either it is an undocumented feature (after all, W3680 and W3690 are heavily based on i7-980X and i7-990X, respectively) - or all the reports just happen to be engineering samples. Without being labelled "ES".

    Engineering Samples should in theory be clearly labeled as such, like this one: http://www.overclock.net/t/937988/i7-990x-ee-es-xeon-w3690-on-ebay
    [​IMG]

    So - I believe that W3680's and W3690's are indeed unlocked - at least my W3690 is. They're not advertised as unlocked, but the proof is in the pudding (the maximum selectable multiplier) - and my maximum multiplier (selectable in BIOS) is 66x.
    Of course, there may be motherboards with microcode updates that state a lower max multiplier or similar, but my CPU on my motherboard is definitely unlocked.


    Other reports:
    http://forums.evga.com/W3680-Xeon-unlocked-multiplier-m1330735.aspx
    http://www.overclock.net/t/1499987/intel-xeon-w3680-sold
    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/686271-i7-980X-vs-W3680?p=6958774#post6958774
    http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037545833&postcount=37
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2014 at 2:07 PM
  9. EarthDog

    EarthDog

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    Odd. But just because you see the option in the bios to go to 66x doesn't mean it will. Compelling links otherwise. Thanks for the info. :)
     
  10. Trondster New Member

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    I have only gone to 32x - so far. I prefer my overclocks to be stable. ;) But - still a bit over the default multi of 26x (and 28x turbo).

    Just like my max selectable BCLK of 600MHz - any option over 250MHz (or above 200, for that matter) would for me be strictly academical.

    66 is at least high enough for any practical purposes that I'll consider the option "unlocked".

    Hmm - 66x multiplier @ 600MHz BCLK - a theoretical maximum of 39.6 GHz? :D :D
     
  11. unclewebb

    unclewebb RealTemp Author

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    Everything is starting to make sense. Yes you do have a W3690 and on your CPU where it says SLBW2, that means it is a retail CPU and it is not an Engineering Sample (ES).

    Code:
    [LIST=1]
    [*]        MSR 0x000001A0          0x00000000      0x00850081
    [*]        MSR 0x000000CE          0x00000C00      0x34011A03
    [*]        MSR 0x000001AD          0x00002020      0x20202020
    [*]        MSR 0x00000198          0x00000000      0x0000001B
    [*]        MSR 0x00000199          0x00000000      0x0000001B
    [/LIST]
    There are various registers in your CPU that tell me more information about it.

    0xCE - bit[27] is zero. That also confirms that this is NOT an ES CPU.
    0xCE - bits[15:8] contains the maximum non turbo ratio. The last 4 digits on that line are 1A03. 1A represents the bits we are interested in. This number is in hexadecimal format so 0x1A = 26. That is your default multiplier.

    26 X 133.33 = 3466 MHz = 3.46 GHz

    That agrees with the value etched into the top of your CPU and it agrees with the information from the Intel website that I posted above.

    If you look on the Intel Ark website you will also see a higher number listed as the Max Turbo Frequency. That gives you an indication of how these CPUs work. The only way you can achieve a multiplier higher than 26 is if Intel Turbo Boost is enabled within the processor.

    It is interesting that you are using a Gigabyte board because they decided to give users an option in the bios that is not accurate. In the bios you can disable Intel Turbo Boost and you can set a high multiplier separately. As mentioned in my previous post, what happens in the background when you boot up is that Turbo Boost is enabled. The bios sees you want a high multiplier so it knows that the only way that is going to be possible is if Turbo Boost is enabled so it turns it back on. RealTemp followed the Intel definition of Turbo Boost. Gigabyte did not.

    MSR 0x1A0 - bit[38] is zero. That confirms that Turbo Boost is enabled. You can argue that your CPU does not use Turbo Boost but I would argue and Intel would argue that you are wrong. It does not matter if your maximum CPU multiplier is unlocked or not. It still requires Turbo Boost to be enabled within the CPU to go beyond the default multiplier of 26. This is true for all Core i CPUs whether they are from the first generation or the recent 4th generation. That is how they work.

    MSR 0x1A0 - bit[16] The digit 5 in that register confirms that bit[16] is set to 1. This is the EIST - SpeedStep bit. I do not know if you enabled or disabled EIST in the bios. I do know that your bios has enabled EIST. I mentioned that I have a couple of Asus boards that do this. It is impossible for me to truly disable EIST on these boards. Sure there is an option to do this in the bios but it doesn't actually work. After I boot up and check this register on my Asus boards, it shows that EIST is enabled regardless of what I have set in the bios.

    MSR 0x199 - This is the multiplier request register. With the first gen CPUs, for the CPU to request the maximum turbo boost multiplier this register needs to be set to the value of the default multiplier plus 1. The extra +1 tells the CPU to use full turbo boost. As mentioned above, your default multiplier is 0x1A (26) so this register needs to be set one higher so that would is 0x1B (27). This register is set correctly and also confirms that this CPU is requesting to use Turbo Boost.

    MSR 0x198 - This register gives you information about what multiplier the CPU is actually using. You can set MSR 0x199 to a sky high value but if the processor does not support this value than that will show up in MSR 0x198. This is set to 0x1B just like MSR 0x199 is set to so this confirms that it is using full turbo boost.

    MSR 0x1AD - shows the individual turbo multipliers based on how many cores are active. each 0x20 value shows that you have your CPU set to use the 0x20 (32) multiplier whether 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or all 6 cores are active.

    MSR 0xCE - bit[28] and bit[29] are set. That confirms that the turbo multipliers are programmable and that the turbo TDP power values are also adjustable. When you can adjust the multis and the power limits, you have an unlocked CPU.

    After all that background information, what problems are you having with RealTemp GT? For your CPU to work at its maximum speed, you have to make sure that Disable Turbo is NOT checked in RealTemp. Uncheck that and then click on OK and then open that windows back up to make sure that information was saved correctly.

    Can you post a screenshot of RealTemp GT that shows this? Can you run a simple test like the built in XS Bench. While that is running and there is some load on your CPU can you take a snapshot so I can see what multiplier and speed RealTemp GT is reporting? Other users that run the Core i7-980X or Core i7-990X have never complained about RealTemp GT so I am pretty sure that it is working correctly. With an unlocked multiplier, your W3690 is almost identical to one of those Extreme CPUs so RealTemp GT should work OK on the W3690.

    The unlocked multiplier is a nice bonus feature and the W3690 is a little cheaper on EBay compared to a 980X so good find. If I ever go retro I would probably go for the Xeon X5660. You can buy three X5660 CPUs for the price of one W3690. On a good motherboard that is happy running at a BCLK of 200 MHz, the X5660 is a bargain 6 core CPU.

    Edit - Your CPU-Z register dump confirms turbo boost for the W3690.

    Code:
    [LIST=1]
    [*]        Turbo Mode              supported, enabled
    [*]        Max turbo frequency     4266 MHz
    [*]        Max non-turbo ratio     26x
    [*]        Max turbo ratio         32x
    [/LIST]
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2014 at 7:28 PM
  12. Trondster New Member

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    I tested some more. I started OCCT, CPU-Z and Prime95:
    BeforeRealTemp.png

    ..I then started RealTemp GT, and the frequency (and temperature) went down:
    AfterRealTemp.png

    ..Disable Turbo was not checked:
    DisableTurbo.png
    And - when I had exited RealTemp, the multiplier was still down to the 26x.


    But - however - when I checked and unchecked Disable Turbo, the frequency went back up to the proper speed again.



    I'm guessing that the problem was a wrong value in the .ini file. I tried experimenting a bit, I even tried deleted the config files, but it still worked properly, without reproducing the issue.
    However, on a hunch, I tried editing RealTempGT.ini, and tried setting DisableTurbo=2. This reproduced the issue - when I started RealTempGT, the frequency went down to the default multiplier, and only went back up again if I checked and unchecked Disable Turbo (storing DisableTurbo=0 in the ini file).

    Could it be that RealTemp with my previous CPU, my i7 950, set DisableTurbo to 2, -1 or some other magic value? Or that some other setting had a special value, causing RealTemp GT to behave like that?


    Edit: I guess you could say that my main gripe with RealTemp is that it seems to change settings on startup - which for me is a Bad Thing. I do not mind that you get some extra overclocking functionality in that you can change the settings while RealTemp is running, but I do not want my temperature monitoring tool to change my settings for me while it is starting up. Even if I clicked a check box the last time I ran it.
    Some cosmetic changes are fine - I really love the way it remembers the position of the screen when it last was started - that nice tidbit saves me many mouse clicks when I reboot again and again, trying to find that one golden, stable overclock configuration. Great stuff! :)
    But - I can't have that it changes CPU settings on startup - since the last time I ran RealTemp the frequencies, settings, voltages (or even the CPU itself) may have changed drastically, and if it suddenly enables/disables turbo, EIST, C6/C7/C3, Hyper Threading or other settings while starting up, it might ruin my overclocking and cause major problems.

    So - I love to have RealTemp showing me my various CPU settings, but I can't have that it stores any settings I used last time and applies them on startup - then it becomes a dangerous liability instead of a powerful (and really good) monitoring tool.

    If it should apply any settings on startup, it should be if and only if I have checked a box "apply these settings on next startup" or similar.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2014 at 10:39 PM

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