Recommend me a GPU which will meet my humble needs!

[Darren]

But then my office rig would be noisy!

Not really, I doubt the fans will increase in speed to compensate for the extra heat build up. I actually lowered my Freezer 64 Heatsink + fan speed from normal to slow even after applying the overclock. I'm running my processor overclocked from 2 GHz to 2.8 GHz.

I have found exactly what I want, I can happily purchase a stock 9800 GT and fit the HR-03 GT and enjoy perfect case ventilation.

How much are you getting the 9800 GT for? It would have to be a fantastic deal financially because the 4770 and 4830, even the 4850 cost around the same retail and would be a faster choice.

That is because attaching a 120mm fan to the HR-03 should negate any requirement for a CPU fan. I should be able to go with just a CPU heatsink.

It depends on the 120mm fan you are attaching, not all fans are the same you can easily buy silent fans which is just as silent as it being completely passive. One should be looking low a noise levels in decibel (dBA) and ensure it can push out a lot of air (CFM). You shouldn't be able to hear a fan below 19 dBA and there are plenty of fans which go all the way down to 8 dBA with great air flow.

QuietPC.com sells a huge range of silent fans


http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/120mmfans

Although it will still work out at £100 for the full GPU setup.

Is this extortionate, or realistic?

£100 for the GPU and custom heatsink seems like an average deal, with the HR-03 GT or accelero with a better GPU such as the 4770 or 4830 can be had for under £100 too.

 

[Pipps]

I can now see that it should in fact be possible to do this for under £100.

I simply buy the HR-03 heatsink and attach it to a more appropriate processor.

Would someone with far superior knowledge please tell me what would be an affordable card from any of the following:

ATI HD-2900XT
ATI HD-2900PRO (512MB&1GB)
nVidia GTX280 & GTX260
GTX285 & GTX260
Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX & 8800GTS & 8800

Or, mor significantly, any of the GeForce or ATI cards listed here.

Thank you!

 

[JrRacinFan]

For your max resolution, I suggest not going above a GTX260/HD4870.

 

[Pipps]

For your max resolution, I suggest not going above a GTX260/HD4870.

Whoa... just checking their respective prices now, they are both well over £100, and therefore out of my budget!

 

[Pipps]

How much are you getting the 9800 GT for? It would have to be a fantastic deal financially because the 4770 and 4830, even the 4850 cost around the same retail and would be a faster choice.

It appears that a 9600 GT is available for £70 and a 9800 GT for £80. Does this seem credible?

 

[JrRacinFan]

Yes it does and 9800GT is about 10% faster in gaming. You really should look into the 4850 or 9800GTX+/GTS250.


EDIT:

I take that back, 4830!

 

[Pipps]

...£100 for the GPU and custom heatsink seems like an average deal, with the HR-03 GT or accelero with a better GPU such as the 4770 or 4830 can be had for under £100 too.

The 4830 looks like a very nice card. Faster than the 9600, too. Only a less reassuring that it is only provisionally compatible with the HR-03.

The 4830 appears to be £90. Is that a good price?

 

[JrRacinFan]

Now the only reason why I say 4830, on your mobo you can always add a 2nd later for crossfire if wishing to and thats any of the 48XX family (4870 4830 or 4850).

 

[Pipps]

Nopw the only reason why I say 4830, on your mobo you can always add a 2nd later for crossfire if wishing to.

Ha!

 

[Pipps]

The very first recommendation I received on this thread was to look at the GeForce 9600 GSO. And it now appears to be compatible with the HR-30 heatsink.

The 9600 GSO is £45 in the UK. Half the price of the HD4830. A considerable saving. And actually within my price range.

Would the 9600 GSO still get me through the basic games I have mentioned?
(Edit: Those games being: Pro Evo, Half Life 2, and perhaps GTA IV.)

What would be a general comparison between the two?

 

[Darren]

It appears that a 9600 GT is available for £70 and a 9800 GT for £80. Does this seem credible?

Very good deals, but the newer cards push them out of the water performance wise with the same financial budget. Forget the 9800 GT for £80, its a few points more expensive than the faster 4830 and 4770.

The 4770 looks like a very nice card. Faster than the 9600, too. Only a less reassuring that it is only provisionally compatible with the HR-03.

The 4770 appears to be £90. Is that a good price?

I wouldn't pay more than £80 for the 4770. The ATI 4850 can be had for £90.

Novatech ATI Radeon HD4830 512MB £68.99
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-4830

XFX ATI Radeon HD 4830 512MB £75.99 inc VAT
http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-125-XF


Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4770 512MB GDDR5 £79.21 inc vat
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAP-4770


Asus ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB £74.99 inc VAT
http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-168-AS <<--- This is the fastest of all the cards suggested and is the second cheapest


A side note, the 9600 GT was known to have a faulty batch which caused random lock ups and blue screens of deaths with particular motherboard chipsets. I would avoid it for this reason, although I used to have one and its performance is top notch for the price.

Edit 2:

The 9600 GSO is £45 in the UK. Half the price of the HD4830. A considerable saving. And actually within my price range.

Would the 9600 GSO still get me through the basic games I have mentioned?
(Edit: Those games being: Pro Evo, Half Life 2, and perhaps GTA IV.)

It is enough for the games listed with the exception of GTA IV (because of the CPU). That card will definitely struggle in newer games, its half the price of the 4830 because its half the performance most of the time!

 

[Pipps]

Thank you for the options and prices. That is very useful.

Also...

A side note, the 9600 GT was known to have a faulty batch which caused random lock ups and blue screens of deaths with particular motherboard chipsets. I would avoid it for this reason, although I used to have one and its performance is top notch for the price.

That is very useful too. Thank you.

But what about the 9600 GSO for £45?

My needs are not extensive, after all. I won't be playing Crysis, for instance.

 

[Pipps]

You say...

[the 9600GSO]...is enough for the games listed with the exception of GTA IV (because of the CPU).

But, even with the 2.0Ghz CPU clocked to 3.0GHz?

And...

That card will definitely struggle in newer games, its half the price of the 4830 because its half the performance most of the time!

A most salient point!

Noted!

 

[Darren]

You say...

But, even with the 2.0Ghz CPU clocked to 3.0GHz?

GTA 4 is one of those games that can cripple the highest end PCs. I can remember in the game section of this forum reading numerous posts of people complain that their quad core processors and ATI 4870X2s struggled with the game. Clocked at 3.0 GHz you'd have a better chance of playing GTA 4 at medium but the frame rate might be piss poor in a few areas due to the 9600 GSO only having 384 MB of onboard ram which isn't a big deal on more faster cards or if you have a lot of system ram. £45 seems like a good deal, but £30-35 does get you a card which could potentially perform 2-3 times faster (if it wasn't for the CPU bottleneck).


BTW what video card does your system currently have.
Fil out your system spec here:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/profile.php?do=specs


Edit:

That is very useful to know - thank you!

£30 sounds interesting! What cooler-modifiable GPU would you recommend for around this price?

I acknowledge the point about the bottleneck. I am almost regretting buying a budget CPU, now.

I currently don't have any video card at present. Just onboard Intel GMA 950. I haven't even attempted to run a game yet.

Though I do have 4GB of DDR2 667 RAM. Does this help my chances in any way?

The Artic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev 2 is under £20, I think it is your best choice.


4 GBs of ram is plenty for games, it should help you dramatically.


You shouldn't regret buying a low end CPU, if you bought it 3 years ago it would of been a fantastic investment considering that it was enough to run games from 2006-2009 and with its overclocking capabilities it was a good choice. Even if you bought a high end CPU 3 years such as the E6600 you'd be looking to replace it soon anyways.

 

[Pipps]

That is very useful to know - thank you!

£30 sounds interesting! What cooler-modifiable GPU would you recommend for around this price?

I acknowledge the point about the bottleneck. I am almost regretting buying a budget CPU, now.

I currently don't have any video card at present. Just onboard Intel GMA 950. I haven't even attempted to run a game yet.

Though I do have 4GB of DDR2 667 RAM. Does this help my chances in any way?

 

[EnglishLion]

That is very useful to know - thank you!

£30 sounds interesting! What cooler-modifiable GPU would you recommend for around this price?

I acknowledge the point about the bottleneck. I am almost regretting buying a budget CPU, now.

I currently don't have any video card at present. Just onboard Intel GMA 950. I haven't even attempted to run a game yet.

Though I do have 4GB of DDR2 667 RAM. Does this help my chances in any way?

Forget GTA4 on your current CPU and a <£100 graphics card. I have a Dual Core E2160 overclocked to 3.4GHz and a 4870 with 1GB of RAM and my system only just scrapes through in terms of playing at acceptable frame rates and that's with a reducion in quality settings.

 

[Pipps]

Good grief! I had no idea that GTA IV was so demanding!

Here is an example. There seem to be a number of similar related videos, too.

I suppose their visible qualities were reduced by FRAPS?

Do you think an 8800 GT with a 2.0GHz processor would be enough then?

Or perhaps I should disregard all intentions for GTA IV!

 

[Darren]

Do you think an 8800 GT with a 2.0GHz processor would be enough then?

For most games yes, but for GTA 4 I doubt it. It is like what English Lion said he has a ATI 4870 which is about twice as fast as the 8800 GT and a processor at 3.4 GHz and it struggles in GTA 4 according to him. If you want to play GTA 4 you're going to have to invest the money into the processor. At the moment is the best time to upgrade parts as prices are so cheap, AMD tri-core (Phenom II X3 720) and motherboard can be had for like £160 and about £120 for a AMD dual core (Phenom II X2 550) and motherboard once you put an extra say £70 on a GPU, that is around £200 for a rig that would piss all over most games for about a year and a bit. - presuming that you kept the existing case, HD, CDROM, RAM, OS etc.

 

[EnglishLion]

The problem with GTA4 and smooth gameplay is cause by the large number of computer controlled 'things' in the game. All the pedestrians and the cars (including the cars occupants) have a high level of realism and this requires a lot of CPU intensive calculation. It's calculating all their movements and their responses to their environment, how they fall when you bump into them etc. They even interact with each other without your intervention. It's not unusual to pass a incident in the street (cops taking on other low lifes etc). So no longer can you play a game like this with a low end CPU and a high end graphics card.

When you run the in built benchmark in gta4 it provides a summary at the end which includes system usage and on my system with a 3.4GHz Intel Dual Core and my current settings it lists my CPU usage as being around 95% which is much too high for an average value - it will max out far too often. If I drop my CPU back to it's standard clock speed of 1.8GHz the game comes almost to a complete standstill.

 

[Pipps]

Darren, that is an extremely concise and useful summary of designing a masterful rig with very little difficulty. Thank you!

 

[Darren]

Darren, that is an extremely concise and useful summary of designing a masterful rig with very little difficulty. Thank you!

How much is very little, I specialise in budget gaming rigs. I can whip something up for £250-300 AMD rig which would outperform or be on par with an £600 Intel easily. Although you say you're only a casual gamer I get the sneaky suspicion that you desire a gaming rig to see what the fuss is all about?

Edit:

Exactly!

My brother has been thrilled about Counter Strike for years. I am still curious as to why!

Once PC games have you in its grips you are hooked. Counter Strike and WOW are two games which have been known to make people drop out of university, a few of my friends dropped out of our Computer Science degree to become bums and pursue playing WOW full time.

And I would have to use a system which generated a lot more heat and noise!

Not sure that I am able to do such a thing at present.

You're obsessed with heat and noise. Today's computers are quieter than ever, more video cards are coming with aftermarket coolers, my current 4830 and my old 9600 GT stock fans was way quieter than my ancient x1600 PRO. When I replaced my x1600 Pro I was actually shocked by how silent these new cards are.

As far as heat it will depend on the individual components you buy, from what I’ve heard the i7 CPUs are suppose to run hot, Phenom IIs are moderate in heat but they've got a new energy efficient tri core range which operate with less voltage and output less heat. The ATI 4770 video card which a few people have recommended is suppose to generate very little heat too.

 

[Pipps]

Exactly!

My brother has been thrilled about Counter Strike for years. I am still curious as to why!

Now, I like nothing more than a drunken Pro Evo session, and the PC version is considerably better than that of the PS3, but aside from that, I would have to take a few months off work if I dared let myself experience the immersion of GTA IV.

To add to that, it seems that I would have to do some significant system rethinking in order to facilitate it.

And I would have to use a system which generated a lot more heat and noise!

Not sure that I am able to do such a thing at present.

 

[EnglishLion]

Exactly!
Now, I like nothing more than a drunken Pro Evo session, and the PC version is considerably better than that of the PS3, but aside from that, I would have to take a few months off work if I dared let myself experience the immersion of GTA IV.

To add to that, it seems that I would have to do some significant system rethinking in order to facilitate it.

And I would have to use a system which generated a lot more heat and noise!

Not sure that I am able to do such a thing at present.

It may cost to build a gta4 capable PC but the game is definitely worth it IMO. It got a lot of criticism when it came out and for some valid reasons too but once it's up and running on a decent PC it is so much fun.

and you don't need a PC that churns out loads of heat and makes loads of noise - just pick your components wisely and fit the right fans etc. Passive makes no noise sure, but many fans make near to no noise such that the PC is inaudiable to the user. In addition if set up well the only time it'll be making noise is when you're playing and then you won't hear it for all the gun shots, explosions, engine noise and squealing of tyres!

 

[Pipps]

Lion, thank you for explaining further about exactly the implications which GTA IV presents. It is really useful to know.

I also agree with you that a properly designed case - even one containing a gaming rig - should not necessarily generate unreasonable noise. To this end, I have been considering how I could go about building such a system. It would seem to me that ventilation through-flow would be the key.

I know this thread is veering even more towards cooling and silence issues, but may I ask, would you consider a 2.0Ghz CPU overclocked to 3.0Ghz, to be satisfactorily catered-for with a passive heatsink such as the Thermalright SI-128 SE heatsink, when positioned in a properly ventilated case?

I think my next step would be to set up an protocol for the system to automatically raise a decrease fan speed according to monitored temperatures of the GPU and CPU.

How would you recommend that this should be best achieved? Mobo BIOS, additional hardware, or software?

 

[Darren]

I know this thread is veering even more towards cooling and silence issues, but may I ask, would you consider a 2.0Ghz CPU overclocked to 3.0Ghz, to be satisfactorily catered-for with a passive heatsink such as the Thermalright SI-128 SE heatsink, when positioned in a properly ventilated case?

It is definitely possible to passively cool a processor, I'm not sure if the Termalright SI-128 SE is the best heat sink to run without a fan, I haven't seen any of the reviews but it seems tiny compared to other passive solutions such as the Scythe Ninja II. In either event if you're planning on overclocking I'd still stick a fan onto, a slow spinning 120mm low noise fan that can operate at below 18 dBA that way you get the best of both worlds a silent PC and reassurance that your PC isn't going to overheat.

I think my next step would be to set up an protocol for the system to automatically raise a decrease fan speed according to monitored temperatures of the GPU and CPU. How would you recommend that this should be best achieved? Mobo BIOS, additional hardware, or software?

AMD motherboards and processors support Cool and Quiet which can be enabled in the bios. It reduces the voltage and clock speed when the computer is idle to reduce power consumption and adjusts the CPUs fan accordingly. I believe Intel’s version is called EIST or Speed Step. Most good motherboards will have options to manually increase or decrease the RPM of the fans when the temperature is above X or below Y.

I can see that AMD would be the way to go. May I ask, would the DFI LanParty Jr 790GX

The 790GX chipset belongs to a high end motherboard, although they're good as they usually contain a flurry of overclocking features I wouldn't recommend it because of the price, if you're on a budget such a board would defeat the purpose. The cheaper alternatives which are just as good are the 780v, 780G and 8300 chipsets.

I would be very interested to hear more about your recommendations on a £250 DX10-gaming-capable-rig.

Usually I’d include memory and PSU in a build but I’m presuming you’re going to use your existing components, so all you’d need is a CPU, Motherboard and video card.

Components from Ebuyer.co.uk:

AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz Socket AM3 6MB L3 Cache Retail Boxed Processor £108.75
ASUS M3A78-CM 780V Socket AM2+ onboard graphics 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard £55.94
ASUS HD 4850 512MB DDR3 Dual DVI HDCP HDTV out PCI-E Graphics Card £93.80

£258.49 (free super saver delivery)

You can shave off £16 if you get the Phenom II X3 710 instead of the Phenom II X3 720
here

You can shave off £30 if you buy the Phenom II X2 550 instead of the Phenom II X3 720
here
You can shave another £15 off if you buy the ASUS ATI 4850 from overclockers.co.uk

here

So potentially you could end up with spending anything from £220-260



Edit:

Your current Asus PQ5 Pro is a good motherboard, I see no reason why you couldn't get your existing processor to 3GHz or above, it even supports the newer Core 2 Duos and Quads, it might be more convenient to drop in a new processor E7400/E8400 and a new video card opposed to going AMD. Although the AMD rig I spec'd above would be slightly faster for around the same price it is a hassle replacing the motherboard especially when you've got a more than adequate motherboard.

In your shoes I'd explore overclocking the CPU and buying the ASUS ATI 4850 from overclockers, and you'll be able to play most games fine for a year or so. here