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Report: Rage Runs Faster on 360, Carmack Confirms

TheMailMan78

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i love how that game got a 10/10...

i thought the graphics weren't that good at all, actually they were decent at best.

anyway read that article and than argue that the ps3 is underpowered? because i read every bit of all of those articles and they prove. if you know what your doing the ps3 is a great piece of hardware

Still holding a candle for the PS3 I see. Face it man its no better than the 360 in graphics. Its just not. No developer is going to unlock some super secret CPU power. Its over.
 

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They could, but they won't. Cost/benefit stops them from doing that. A hammer is only as good as the person swinging it.
 

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not so much holding a candle as using factual information? i could understand if it was like i made any of what im saying up but im not and if done right im not saying its so much if any better than 360 but i wouldn't say its underpowered compared to the 360 honestly the cell is a great product when used right.

And don't mistake that for "it will be better or anything" its just simply saying that the potential to be great is there but as you said developers cost/benfits aren't favoring anything to them so they don't and wont utilize the cell
 

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not so much holding a candle as using factual information? i could understand if it was like i made any of what I'm saying up but im not and if done right im not saying its so much if any better than 360 but i wouldn't say its underpowered compared to the 360 honestly the cell is a great product when used right.

And don't mistake that for "it will be better or anything" its just simply saying that the potential to be great is there but as you said developers cost/benfits aren't favoring anything to them so they don't and wont utilize the cell[/QUO

Then why hasn't Sony themselves unlocked its true power? I mean really the games speak for themselves. The PS3 and the 360 are even in power.
 
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not so much holding a candle as using factual information? i could understand if it was like i made any of what im saying up but im not and if done right im not saying its so much if any better than 360 but i wouldn't say its underpowered compared to the 360 honestly the cell is a great product when used right.

And don't mistake that for "it will be better or anything" its just simply saying that the potential to be great is there but as you said developers cost/benfits aren't favoring anything to them so they don't and wont utilize the cell
Right....The ps3 is a great peace of hardware That has bad firmware, Nothing to argue with there...
Edit : i also believe the actual PS3 hardware is better,than the Xbox, but it would take far to long to utilize properly
 
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why would you want it exclusive, I hate to say it but GTA4 plays like crap on consoles, the fps is all over the place, it usually dosen't drop under 15 to me but compared to what even a decent pc will play it at @ 720p that fps is not good at all, for example, I have a pc that costed me under 400 dollars to make with a E2140 and a 8800GS(folding pc) and it plays it over 60fps at that res and looks a good bit better than the 360 version and to me 30fps looks slow compared to 60.


flamebait

lol....? just an opinion didnt know people would get so offended and would call me a flamebait......get a life

this forum is turning into gametrailers pretty fast....
 
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not so much holding a candle as using factual information? i could understand if it was like i made any of what I'm saying up but im not and if done right im not saying its so much if any better than 360 but i wouldn't say its underpowered compared to the 360 honestly the cell is a great product when used right.

And don't mistake that for "it will be better or anything" its just simply saying that the potential to be great is there but as you said developers cost/benfits aren't favoring anything to them so they don't and wont utilize the cell[/QUO

Then why hasn't Sony themselves unlocked its true power? I mean really the games speak for themselves. The PS3 and the 360 are even in power.

I'll admit there pretty even, and they have alot of similar looking games, however the ps3 exclusives have the best graphics for consoles (killzone 2, uncharted) so atm, imo the ps3 is winning if your comparing there graphics.
 

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the PS3 is designed around multithreading. problem is that many of the cell processor 'cores' are optimised/designed for specific tasks - so if your game wants more performance than the main 'core' can provide - you're screwed, as you cant really offload to anywhere else (whereas the 360 has 3 identical cores, so you can balance it out a lot easier)


You have to keep in mind that such tweaks may be required on a 'per level' basis, so its a lot of man hours to optimise performance, if a console is struggling to run your engine.
(EG, an ice level would use different hardware resources than a tropical water filled level)
 
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lol....? just an opinion didnt know people would get so offended and would call me a flamebait......get a life

this forum is turning into gametrailers pretty fast....

lol ok, lol
 
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You have to keep in mind that such tweaks may be required on a 'per level' basis, so its a lot of man hours to optimise performance, if a console is struggling to run your engine.
(EG, an ice level would use different hardware resources than a tropical water filled level)
I have to assume that the SPEs are programmed on an individual basis. That is, the developer has to tell it to put this thread on that SPE. Why it is a PITA is because the workload isn't balanced by the OS. In Windows, all you do is something like this...

Code:
for (int i = 0; i < Environment.ProcessorCount; i++)
  new Thread(MyWork).Start(stack[i]);
Viola, you now have as many cores as you have available working on different stacks of work. Windows will put that thread on the core with the smallest workload. Which core is which is transparent/meaningless to the developer. On PS3, I assume it is more like this...

Code:
for (int i = 0; SpeCount; i++)
Spe[i] = new Thread(MyWork).Start(stack[i]);
On the surface, this looks pretty much the same but you have to realize that every stack takes different amounts of time to process. Because games are naturally symmetrical (all tasks must be completed for this frame before work can start on the next) and not asymmetrical (work is done as fast as it is done with little impact on the entire scheme of things), one overburdened SPE could mean a sizable drop in framerate.

On Windows, you "fix" this issue by having more than "ProcessorCount" threads. This gives Windows the option to take several lighter threads and separate them on a core that doesn't have a single heavy thread running on it. Windows will fix the problem for you.

On PS3 (assumed), you fix the problem by coding your own version of what Windows does--find what tasks are overburdeneing a SPE and split/move it to another thread that doesn't have as much burden.

Ultimately (again, assumed), SPEs don't have the control over its own micromanagement that we see in fully integrated cores. It adds more burden (in the form of micromanagement) on to the developers and they, therefore, won't address the issue unless it is deemed absolutely necessary (like Carmack with RAGE--he is having to address the SPEs individually in order to get the performance at least on par with Xbox360).


It has nothing to do with "levels" and everything to do with load balancing across the available hardware. Ice levels most likely use a glass-esque DX9 render material while a tropical level would use a lot of water DX9 render materials. Both have a larger impact on the GPU than the CPU. The CPU usually deals in unit statistics, physics, AI, audio (if there isn't a dedicated sound device), and pretty much everything else that isn't visual.
 

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That's you man, problem is customers look at this like "wow i get 2 systems in one sweet", or they look at it like "wow this blows i don't have room to have my xbox, ps2,ps3, and 360 all hooked up to play games"

so its more so adding a pro on the system making it a better sell point,

i have a 60gb ps3, and i baby the shit out of that think it has 2 of my favorite systems fully backwards compatible (playstation and playstation 2) along with 3, so i can't complain.

But do you honestly sit and play old 'last gen' titles?

Backwards compatibility is a waste of time if it effects the play of current 'next gen' titles. Some people moan about the 360 only playing an handful of old XBOX 1 titles, but I couldnt give a shit! :)
 
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joinmeindeath417

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But do you honestly sit and play old 'last gen' titles?

Backwards compatibility is a waste of time if it effects the play of current 'next gen' titles. Some people moan about the 360 only playing an handful of old XBOX 1 titles, but I couldnt give a shit! :)

yes

Resident evil 1,2,3,4,CV,outbreak 1 and 2 (wish the servers werent down)

fatal frame series

silent hill 1,2,3,4, Origins

Metal gear solid 1,2,3

Obscure

Devil may cry 1,2,3

Cold Fear

God of war 1 and 2

Those are just the ones i still actually play, i have a decent selection of ps2 and playstation games.

I have about 14 Xbox games i still play also.

point is you need to look at it this way, you have an entertainment center and dvd racks/shelves.

Its a great feeling knowing your ENTIRE library works on what you have as a gaming system




and thats just on the playstation platform
 
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yes

Resident evil 1,2,3,4,CV,outbreak 1 and 2 (wish the servers werent down)

fatal frame series

silent hill 1,2,3,4, Origins

Metal gear solid 1,2,3

Obscure

Devil may cry 1,2,3

Cold Fear

God of war 1 and 2

Those are just the ones i still actually play, i have a decent selection of ps2 and playstation games.

I have about 14 Xbox games i still play also.

point is you need to look at it this way, you have an entertainment center and dvd racks/shelves.

Its a great feeling knowing your ENTIRE library works on what you have as a gaming system




and thats just on the playstation platform
I agree to that, but think they should all work on my PC
 
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Sooooooo, does everyone think the xbox 360 and the playstation 3 are equal? Or have we not seen what the PS3 is actually capable of? I for one think we haven't not seen what the PS3 is capable of due having to port games over to it, but most of the games are starting to look a lot better and most even seemed like you were playing the same exact thing(ex:street fighter 4). also do people really believe that the xbox360 has basically a ati 2900xt in the console I always assumed it was more of a 2600 and I dont really buy the ps3 has a 7900gt, no one thinks it may possibly be a little better than that? I just dont see the xbox360s card comparable to a 2900 :\ yeah I need that explained more


edit: I actually dont believe the GPU for the ps3 is an 7900, I've heard it was a modified version of a 7800...?
 
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Sooooooo, does everyone think the xbox 360 and the playstation 3 are equal? Or have we not seen what the PS3 is actually capable of? I for one think we haven't not seen what the PS3 is capable of due having to port games over to it, but most of the games are starting to look a lot better and most even seemed like you were playing the same exact thing(ex:street fighter 4). also do people really believe that the xbox360 has basically a ati 2900xt in the console I always assumed it was more of a 2600 and I dont really buy the ps3 has a 7900gt, no one thinks it may possibly be a little better than that? I just dont see the xbox360s card comparable to a 2900 :\ yeah I need that explained more


edit: I actually dont believe the GPU for the ps3 is an 7900, I've heard it was a modified version of a 7800...?
i don't think we will ever see what it's capable of because of bad firmware, and i think the xbox360 graphics is more like 3 x hd2400's
 
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i don't think we will ever see what it's capable of because of bad firmware, and i think the xbox360 graphics is more like 3 x hd2400's

what exactly would benefit from better firmware? most of the time when sony produces a firmware it's usually pretty good but what could happen if they made better firmware?

and what is 3x 2400's equivalent to? :) lol
 

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yes

Resident evil 1,2,3,4,CV,outbreak 1 and 2 (wish the servers werent down)

fatal frame series

silent hill 1,2,3,4, Origins

Metal gear solid 1,2,3

Obscure

Devil may cry 1,2,3

Cold Fear

God of war 1 and 2

Those are just the ones i still actually play, i have a decent selection of ps2 and playstation games.

I have about 14 Xbox games i still play also.

point is you need to look at it this way, you have an entertainment center and dvd racks/shelves.

Its a great feeling knowing your ENTIRE library works on what you have as a gaming system




and thats just on the playstation platform

Oh, its nice to have a good collection, but you cant play them all at once ;)
 

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I wouldn't want to play them all at once, or is this a way of saying you CAN on a pc
 
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Well to me all it was is that he said the PS3 was graphically the same as the xbox 360.
Then he tried to explain why it will run better on xbox 360. The 360 uses a better gpu and the cpu isnt programmed to do certain tasks so you can set it to do whatever you like so if one area needs more power it can get it. The PS3 gpu is behind even on the xbox 360 one. The xbox 360 is a modded ati 2xxx series and the PS3 a modded 7xxx series nvidia GPU.

No cpu is going to make that gpu better, if my cpu was 6ghz my gpu would still be a gtx260
 
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what exactly would benefit from better firmware? most of the time when sony produces a firmware it's usually pretty good but what could happen if they made better firmware?

and what is 3x 2400's equivalent to? :) lol
Firmware optimized for core usage without studio's need to individualize program for specific core usage, Sony's firmware should be able to compile as it needs not the other way around.
3 x 20 stream proc at 256bit interface
60 sp's 8 Rop's
 
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there is a few titles id like to be backwards compatible with 360, metal gear solid 2: substance

only due to the fact that the 360 is a higher res and can do better AA and AF compared to playing it on an original xbox

loading can be faster too

i do have an original xbox i got for £20 a while back but it would be ncie to get the 360 benefits, didnt one of the PS3 have a built in chip for PS2 compatibility right?

EDIT: the pc is only superior to what you can afford really, dosnt matter if the game had an engine that would run at 2fps on the latest top hardware and was called "future proof"
 

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not so much holding a candle as using factual information? i could understand if it was like i made any of what I'm saying up but im not and if done right im not saying its so much if any better than 360 but i wouldn't say its underpowered compared to the 360 honestly the cell is a great product when used right.

And don't mistake that for "it will be better or anything" its just simply saying that the potential to be great is there but as you said developers cost/benfits aren't favoring anything to them so they don't and wont utilize the cell[/QUO

Then why hasn't Sony themselves unlocked its true power? I mean really the games speak for themselves. The PS3 and the 360 are even in power.

I agree about even power, and about sony not unlocking the true power? because Sony didn't make the CELL they just have a upper hand at how to utilize it compare to 3rd party companies?

do you see Guerrilla or Insomniac bitch about making games for the ps3?

no because they know what there doing. it all boils down to the developers and yes i agree it shouldn't be so damn hard to code for if it's top competitor make its like a walk in the park

i think when the next metal gear comes out you will see what console benefits from what.

Because everyone is saying "the 360 couldn't handle MGS4 so they didn't make it blah blah" but when they make rising if it falls short because its multiplatform you'll know why.

As far as rage goes, i have faith that ID software will make sure that before it comes out the games will run identical on the 360 and ps3 aside from texture compression because its going to have to be more compressed to fit on 2 dvd's for the 360 i know this topic just turned into another 360 vs ps3 fight but it's really because essentially that artical makes 360 fanboys THINK that the system isn't handling the game cause it can't
 
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Cooling Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4(With Noctua Fans)
Memory 32Gb Crucial 3600 Ballistix
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3080, Asus 6800M
Storage Adata SX8200 1TB NVME/WD Black 1TB NVME
Display(s) Dell 27 Inch 165Hz
Case Phanteks P500A
Audio Device(s) IFI Zen Dac/JDS Labs Atom+/SMSL Amp+Rivers Audio
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse Logitech G502 SE Hero
Keyboard Corsair K70 RGB Mk.2
VR HMD Samsung Odyssey Plus
Software Windows 10
for all we know they are porting the ps3 version from the 360 version cause its easier than vice versa or starting from the ground up.

It dosen't matter in the end though, all that matters is gameplay, if the game plays good and its fun then i'd be happy with it, lol, I still play kotor, cause its fun.
 
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