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Retail releases instead of Steam-types for same titles. Stronger ownership?

Discussion in 'Games' started by Ray_Rogers2109, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. Ray_Rogers2109

    Ray_Rogers2109 New Member

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    Who else feels that even though many games are available through Steam and other digital distribution sites they don't seem to fully own said title? It's more for those such as myself who feel they have full ownership over a title which has been ran through an assembly line and is a physical product compared to something only stored on a HDD.
    I don't mind whatsoever downloading mods for titles I own but if there's a physical counterpart for a title I'm interested in if it's listed on Steam, I'd much rather buy said title from Amazon and get it delivered compared to downloading it.
    Yes I really prefer physical media over a download although I have cable internet. Old habits die hard and I'd rather stand up and look at my library of games on a shelf compared to a screenshot or list on Steam. No IDGAF about Steam sales since I'd rather wait for the price to lower on Amazon.com/Marketplace to purchase the manufactured/physical retail release.
    There are several titles on console which I sold which I'll be also buying for PC. Why? My computer isn't good enough in the meantime but the computer I'm building when finished will more than work for it.

    Hopefully others feel the same way but I take it I'm in the minority for having something on my shelf instead of something only on the computer.
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd rather not have plastic boxes take up space on my shelf or being manufactured. I don't like plastic at all, bad for the environment. I do think that digitally distributed games should be a bit cheaper since there's no manufacturing costs.
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  3. Ray_Rogers2109

    Ray_Rogers2109 New Member

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    Well looking on Amazon.com many titles can be had for a lower price compared to Steam. But doesn't matter I'm only using Steam if a retail title is SteamPowered and if it's Digital only.
    Otherwise I'm still buying retail versions.

    EDIT: I'm still buying Blu-ray and DVDs.
  4. xenocide

    xenocide

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    Steam is mostly about convenience. Instead of having potentially hundreds of CD's\DVD's\Boxes laying around, you can have them all stored on Steam, and never have to worry about losing the disc, CD-key, box, or any number of issues that arise with physical media. So many people who game on the PC have Steam now, it's basically the Facebook of PC Gaming. Everyone has one, and it's considered the norm for staying in touch.
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  5. Ray_Rogers2109

    Ray_Rogers2109 New Member

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    The Facebook analogy falls flat since I don't have one and I've owned games/movies/music since the late 1990's/early 2000's which I have everything for. Too bad you can't take better care of your belongings.
    Unless if a retail title is tied to Steam, of course I'm still buying all Source-engine VALVe titles retail anyway, I'm only buying digital exclusive titles on it. Or far older titles which have better compatibility with newer titles i.e. ALIENS versus PREDATOR 2000 which I own the Gold Edition retail of.
  6. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, we understand that you buy retail games. Why respond to every post what you initially said in your original post. Makes for dry conversation. :ohwell:
  7. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    also saying someone dosent take care of there stuff just makes you look like a douchebag.

    I still own all my games i like boxed retail versions for SOME games, examples

    Shogun II limited edition i picked up etc, but otherwise i really honestly dont feel like trying to keep track of CD keys for over 120+ games spanning from 1995 till the present. it gets to be a pain in the ass,
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  8. Ray_Rogers2109

    Ray_Rogers2109 New Member

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    Command & Conquer: The First Decade was a bit pain in the ass regarding CD Keys but at least they were all printed on the back of booklets.
    When my computer is finished, after installing Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, porting over data from current PC and other bits, I'm going to have quite a stack of games to install all over again which I don't mind. Only would mind if I got side-tracked by testing out titles as I'm installing. Also disc swapping, patches and NoCD cracks for the physical releases. THEN playing the games.
    Not sure if it'd be a good idea to buy even more games when I buy each part. But it'd only mean I'd be able to play more games when it's finished compared to even trying on my current utter piece of shit.
    Only thing I hate most about some CD/Disc keys are they're printed on a label on the case and not the booklet. Oh well thems the deal for buying retail and having different case-types for everything.
    At least with Steam, including owning the retail of The Orange Box, all titles have auto-matic updates and patches along with you don't need the disc in the drive whilst playing.
    Even thought it was amusing Braid was in a DVD case but the disc was a CD-ROM.:roll:

    EDIT: I'm also planning on buying all TOTAL WAR games retail including SHOGUN II. Same for Civ III, IV, V and other turn based strategy games. If I buy them now they'll just sit on the shelf waiting to be played on the new PC but some of the older titles would be fine to play.
    Bit off topic but how's the multi-player for the TOTAL WAR series? Only one I have is ROME including the expansions.
  9. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    I'm not saying I've ever tried it or that I haven't tried it and I'm not saying that kangaroos can't hunt walruses but I'm pretty sure, as in absolutely positive or not, that you can jailbreak your steam games and then put them on a disc.

    Not that theres anything wrong with that, except if there is, in which case it's illegal. Who said that? I dunno it wasn't me.
  10. Muhad

    Muhad

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    Down with Steam! :nutkick:
  11. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    Empire, Napoleon and Shogun II are broken multiplayer wise they had great ideas but didnt follow through that said co op campaigns in Shogun II are fun as hell

    just remember Shogun and Medieval the originals do not like the Nvidia 8000 9000 200 series gpus im not sure about the 400 or 500 series but the game was unplayable on nvidia for the last 5 years or so. and Empire seems to have issues lately with the 400 and 500 series cards, Shogun II tho runs flawlessly on everything right now.
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  12. KieranD

    KieranD

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    Well physical media is only a form of distribution you do not really own a game just the license to play it. The data is just distributed on the disk instead of by download, the license doesn't change.

    Some games like civilization 5 even though they come on disk need to be activated via steam.
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  13. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    Well, I prefer Steam-only for a few reasons:

    1) CD cases get dusty, broken, and they take up space. CDs get scratched, dirty, disc rot, etc.
    2) The CD/DVD version of a game is almost always the oldest "Release to Manufacturing" version. Have fun finding the millions of patches for each game you buy, especially if the studio was a POS and closed down soon after the game was released. Steam keeps your games updated.
    3) No SecuROM-style bullshit that always needs the disc 24/7 even though the game is completely on your HDD. They're still authentication, just done through Steam online.
    4) I can download my games anytime I want to with on any computer with an internet connection. My internet connection at home is comparable in speed to my DVD drive, and it doesn't make any noise.
    5) Scratched discs mean that your game may be corrupt and won't finish installing in some cases.
    6) Optical drives are so shitty these days that basically touching them makes them break.
    7) Retail games that are SteamWorks enabled are completely pointless because you need Steam to authenticate them. When Steam no longer exists, congratulations, you can't unlock your data. Just because you have the disc doesn't mean the game will always work.
    8) Like every other online place in existence, Steam has a transaction history and you can print your receipts. No difference from buying the CD at Best Buy.
    9) Gabe Newell promises that all Steam games will be unlocked through some mechanism if Valve no longer exists.
    10) You can't trade in your activated SteamWorks game because you own it forever.

    The rare cases where buying physical media is better:
    1) Game comes with memorabilia. e.g. Duke Nukem Balls of Steel edition or BioShock.
    2) Games that are not online authenticated and can be traded in e.g. console games.
    3) Your internet is limited that badly.

    My 2 cents on the matter.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  14. LiNKiN

    LiNKiN Staff

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    Its all about convenience. For me I prefer the incredible bundle deals, no disc swapping (or no cd key hacks), the ability to not have to re-install all my games in the event of a reformat. As far as the social aspect of it, I prefer steam over Xbox Live any day. They have not stopped shipping retail boxes for gents like you. So celebrate. :toast:
  15. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    I like to have a mixture. Some games I don't care about the box, others I do. Examples are all Valve games I like to have the box. Duke Nukem Forever I wanted the box, because it's so iconic and has been so incredibly delayed.

    I don't care about any Call of Duty, Fallout 3 / New Vegas, Metro 2033 etc and various indie games I have, which don't come in retail form anyway.


    Yeah, seems to make sense on the face of it, don't it? However, I worked it out a while ago: no manufacturing, shipping and storage costs and less admin. Should be cheaper right? But it isn't, because Steam make you bloody pay for the convenience. :rolleyes: Also, by not cutting out the retail chain, they're increasing people's awareness of their products in the marketplace.



    Excellent post! +1 :toast:

    Point 10: that restriction really pissed me off until today, as it denies you your first sale doctrine and is DRM all over. What if you could transfer your games to another Steam account? It's simple and easy and the system is already in place via 'gifting'.

    Now, think how many hundreds of pounds/dollars people have invested in their Steam accounts. I certainly have. If it got hacked into and all the games stolen, it would be pretty shitty for the user, wouldn't it? Even if they could eventually get them back.

    And don't say it won't happen. Networks and companies are getting hacked nowadays like never before - just look at the fiasco with the PlayStation Network. Enabling this feature would make Steam a magnet for such hackers. Therefore, on balance, I think we're better off as we are.

    In the meantime, I've considerably strengthened my Steam password, due to the high value of my account.

    And that was my 2 cents! :)
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  16. Ray_Rogers2109

    Ray_Rogers2109 New Member

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    Oh I'll be playing all the Total War games on the integrated HD4290, barely, then more suitable on the HD6950 2GB flashed to 6970. Going for ATi/AMD due to cost saving.

    Oh for the Steam stuff I'll just merge the data with the new HDD after I install 7 Ultimate 64-bit but I think I might need to redo it on there. I rarely use XBOX Live although right now I did a two months for $2 deal. Only game I've been playing lately on XBOX Live is BioShock 2 but doesn't matter since I'll be rebuying the retail of it for PC. Yeah, tons of games run flawlessly on XBOX 360 but the PC equivilant at the moment can't even run worth a shit on my pre-built POS at the moment. BioShock 1 and FALLOUT 3: Game of the Year Edition are just collecting dust on my shelves along with other games. Not for another few months.
    Only problem is the shelf space!:laugh: Oh and waiting for right prices.
    Another thing is do I download the mods, patches and NoDisc cracks now or wait until my computer is finished? I don't even have an external HDD at the moment.:wtf:

    XBOX 360 for me right now is Hey this game is also for PC but won't run worth a damn right now so might as well see how it is in the meantime on my 360. Guess it works in the meantime, especially for Games for Windows/GfW Live since I do own a wired 360 controller for PC so no need to create profiles for XPadder. My XBOX Live ID is Drag00n2019 but I'm usually a Silver member and rarely Gold. Can't really afford it and if I do have the money, I'm more likely to take advantage of a films on Blu-ray disc deal instead.:roll:

    Maybe for each part I buy for the PC I'm building I could buy a handful of games in the meantime to be installed when it's finished. Of course titles I already know I'd own.
    But damn, it's going to be a tall stack of games to install! I mean the data would already be there it'd just be the installation to the new computer I think. OR to keep the same folders, move over the data and merge files then? Or install then merge?:confused: Would've been better for a different thread since I'll be having this HDDs data on an external HDD waiting to be moved to the new PCs HDD after installing the operating system.
    At least I have some games already purchased which I know will be more than able to be played, run damn good on the one I'm building. Just a few more months.

    EDIT: Qubit I agree with you on all VALVe games released currently. Well the titles using the Source engine which are retail. Yup, I'll be having the boxes/cases for all of them with the discs. I should also make my Password more durable.
  17. Sir B. Fannybottom

    Sir B. Fannybottom

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    I just like steam because I don't have to switch out discs lol. I hate having to click a icon then being like OH it's not in there. Then I take out the last game I was playing, go to my shelf put it back, take the new one, put that in. Now wait till the disc is found. Close the auto run, then run the game. On steam it's like *scroll* *click* WEEO DIRT 2 TIMEE
  18. Ray_Rogers2109

    Ray_Rogers2109 New Member

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    For this situation I always look for Patches then NoCD/Disc cracks so I don't have to keep swapping discs. Certain titles don't have NoCD/Disc cracks so it's more feasible to have those games on hand, the discs, while playing. But then I'll just do an iso, mount it with DaemonTools and have the disc image be read through that.
    I could take pictures of all the games I own, including the very old which won't play on modern Operating Systems i.e. XP/Vista/7 such as Grim Fandango, but I don't think it'd have the same impact as a list on Steam for some people.
  19. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    There's distrobution costs and they likely recur. Over a products entire lifetime, the manufacturered version is likely to cost less than the downloaded version because its a one off transaction versus multiple. Bandwidth is not cheap.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  20. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Hmmm... I dunno if you've seen my reasoning to this one in post 15, but you have an interesting take on this.

    I think the devil's in the details for which is cheaper. I think though, that because Steam uses such an enormous amount of it, that it's extremely cheap for them, so I still think that physical distribution costs more and costs the environment too. However, Steam/Valve are the only ones who can answer this question definitively.
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  21. Sir B. Fannybottom

    Sir B. Fannybottom

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    Is it odd that I don't want any stores like wal-mart or anything. I would love to buy stuff online, like everything. It could be like amazon prime...
  22. xenocide

    xenocide

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    I see no benefit in buying a retail phyiscal copy of a game when it comes to PC Games. And to quickly debunk your accusation that I don't take care of my stuff, I have plenty of games kicking around from the 90's that are still in excellent condition. I take great care of my stuff, but shit does happen. I have a physical copy of Warcraft II, but it's pretty beat up between moving around between houses, being packed and unpacked, and just other people being around my PC.

    Just about every game I would want to play (aside from Blizzard games) is available on Steam, and usually cheaper than elsewhere. I also have noticed that there are almost no retail stores that will allow you to return a PC game. With Steam, you actually have a pretty good chance of getting a refund for a game if you don't like it.

    So I'll repeat, given all the facts, there are no notable benefits to buying a physical copy of the game instead of buying it through Steam. I also think the general opinion of the PC Gaming community is that Steam is a welcome entity. It seems as though nobody is really going to convince you otherwise, so this topic seems rather pointless.
  23. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    1) Use a 200+ disk trapper. They take up little space, keep the disks dry, and clean.
    2) I keep all the patches for my games on my server. Once the game is no longer being patched, I have to download nothing and the game can be installed within an hour. All online distributors are plagued by patching more so than retail version (Wanna play the game? Too bad. I gotta patch.).
    3) Most games usually only have one layer of DRM (except GTA4 with SecuROM, Social, and GFWL) where as most games on Steam use Steamworks in addition to the retail protections w/ disk checks. At least retail games, you don't have to have a third party app running to play it and most sane people that own it use a no-CD anyway if the DRM doesn't get patched out.
    4) Good for you, most of the world doesn't have a very fast internet connection and it is anything but reliable. Also, Steam still has to download then install. Optical media skips the download bit (it's called insert disk) and go straight to install.
    5) See #2. Downloads are just as likely to get corrupt.
    6) Considering their $20, it doesn't really matter. Not to mention, your average household has at least 100 disks so those drives are useful for more than just games.
    7) You got ammunition (a genuine product, receipt, UPC, serial, disk, and all) to take to the game publisher (e.g. THQ for Saints Row II) and demand they fix it or get sued.
    8) Retail has a serial, a genuine case, a genuine manual and often a bunch of other stuff. Again, something tangible has more push in a legal case than your word against Valve's word. I encourage you to read through Steam's Terms of Service. They aren't exactly going to defend you when the shit hits the fan.
    9) That probably means no more SteamWorks but that doesn't mean you'll be able to re-obtain the game if you don't have it already. The window will be short if you don't. All digital distribution services have their contractual agreement end after the product is downloaded once. Every download thereafter is a gift from them to you.
    10) You can't trade activated SteamGames because Valve won't allow it (most likely because the publishers won't allow it either). No more, no less. Publishers love online distribution for this reason. They claim trading/resaling costs the industry more than piracy.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
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  24. Ray_Rogers2109

    Ray_Rogers2109 New Member

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    Even though I do enjoy buying stuff online there's nothing like the feeling of going into a store and mingling with folks who are shopping and are working there. Too much of a shut-in is far too unhealthy. Even glad I went last week to buy S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl and BRAID from Best Buy. Yes retail chains might have less inventory, oh certainly not Fry's Electronics, but more often than not online retail could be in fact cheaper from Amazon.
    So yeah it's nice to have the in-person social interaction instead of only buying games off of Steam all the time. Well there's sales tax but it's nice getting out of the house though.
    Don't mind if it's a far older title which now supports XP/Vista/7, I'm looking at the original Aliens versus Predator which I own the physical Gold Edition, and the titles which are distributed Digitally only. (Which would be nice if I could find a listing for the latter.)


    EDIT: Oh I have a great internet connection, cable 16-30 mbps and agree with all of FordConcepts post prior to mine. One thing I loathe is trying to find patches for many of the older titles I own. Yeah sure my internet connection is damn awesome but I'd still much rather own physical retail again due to what FordConcept posted.
  25. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Like how? They expressly forbid refunds in their SSA except under exceptional circumstances. You're stuck with it if you simply don't like it. Steam could improve their customer service here.

    I managed it with Crysis 2 recently, because they sold it with undisclosed 3rd party DRM. No way could I have had that refund otherwise. The bastards weren't even gracious about it and made out like they did me a favour. :rolleyes:

    I started a thread on it, if you want to read all about it.

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