They are still better cards overall Newtekie. The MSI cards getting similar clocks and thermals is almost irrelevant. There's plenty of other 560's that DO OC to over 1000 Mhz. Some almost 1100 Mhz, arguably on the same condition that the MSI GTX460 Hawk achieves 950 Mhz. I'm not sure, but as far as I can tell the Gigabyte SOC's use the same PCB and cooler and the 560 is faster and it clocks significantly better. http://www.guru3d.com/article/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-460-soc-review/18 http://www.guru3d.com/article/gigabyte-gtx-560-ti-soc-review/20 I wouldn't say 100 Mhz is insignificant, PCB and cooling being equal. I guess we could argue forever, you have your opinion and your data and I have my opinion and my data. I still strongly believe that I am right and you are wrong or just simply exagerating a situation of 2 chips being "the same""just a revision". EDIT: BTW http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-geforce-gtx-560-ti-hawk-review/21 - GTX 560 Ti Hawk 1029 Mhz http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-geforce-gtx-460-hawk-review/20 - GTX 460 Hawk 952 Mhz http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/04/25/msi_n560gtxti_hawk_video_card_review/8 - 1056 Mhz Again, I wouldn't say 70-100 Mhz is insignificant on basically the same card. Also in the Guru3d reviews the 460 had a perceived consumption of 206w and the 560 Ti 195w (Gigabyte) and 205w vs 213w respectively (MSI). And that's the Ti with extra of 48 SP. Wherever I look I see a more efficient chip. And yes, my card does 850 Mhz without touching the voltages and 900 Mhz with some more juice, maybe 950 Mhz if i dare to really push it, but that's about it. 1050 Mhz that so many 560's achieve is really unnattainable. And IF all the improvements came only from the PCB (which I don't agree with), so what? The new ones are still better and this new GTX560 448SP will probably be better, even if only because the PCB and VRM is better. Mainly due to the PCB being that of the 570, and the chip being a crippled one.