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Shadow of Mordor, why no threads about this game?

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This looks like one of the most exciting IPs of this year, yet no threads about it here yet, and it releases in a month. I've heard people call it an AC ripoff, and Ubi has even insisted they stole their code, but this game looks very original to me.

It's made by Monolith, and while they DID help make AC 1&2 and came up with the air assassinate animation, this game is built on their own Lith Tech engine, and if you look closely, only some animations are similar, but not quite the same.

 

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Because it is LotR.
 
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Because it is LotR.

Seriously? Have you actually SEEN how it compares to the previous titles? I never played any of the other games based on LoTR, but I'm definitely interested in this one. They didn't give it an entirely new name for nothing.
 
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Subjective View:
If it has co-op campaign like LOTR: War in the North, I'm in. Otherwise, I dislike AC1 with its console feeling (I'm sequential person, I dislike to play later title if I don't play the original first).

Objective View:
On the other hand, not much could be done if you're in LOTR world but you're not main characters, because you'll be playing part in minor story or role at best.

Past View:
There're not much successful LOTR games.

Innocent View:
Good graphic, seems like nice gameplay and much fun.

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Why can't we get Silmarillion-based games? Turin, Feanor, even young Elrond, wtv.
 

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Seriously? Have you actually SEEN how it compares to the previous titles? I never played any of the other games based on LoTR, but I'm definitely interested in this one. They didn't give it an entirely new name for nothing.
Basically what they did was take Assassin's Creed's engine and wrapped a LotR story around it. There's two problems with that:
1) Assassin's Creed is driven by story and it's a very good one. LotR's story never interested me (6+ hours of predictable boringness and over emphasized drama).
2) Assassin's Creed's gameplay has always been moderate at best.

When you take a crappy story and put it on a moderate gameplay, what do you get? A steaming pile of meh. I may pick it up in the bargain bin but not before.


Yes, I've played some of the previous LotR games and they failed to impress just like the movies. I couldn't be arsed to finish any of them. The gameplay didn't stand out and the story put me to sleep (can't even remember their names were they're that bland). This appears to fit that template as well.
 
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I really really hate it when I agree with Ford. Lord of the Rings have so much potential and so much of it is wasted. It's like Star Wars in that sense. BTW I have never found anything about AC even remotely interesting.
 
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I thought AC (only played the first one) was boring as shit. Couldn't play after an hour or so.

I do however have interest in this, but will likely wait until a Steam sale.
 
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Basically what they did was take Assassin's Creed's engine and wrapped a LotR story around it. There's two problems with that:
1) Assassin's Creed is driven by story and it's a very good one. LotR's story never interested me (6+ hours of predictable boringness and over emphasized drama).
2) Assassin's Creed's gameplay has always been moderate at best.

When you take a crappy story and put it on a moderate gameplay, what do you get? A steaming pile of meh. I may pick it up in the bargain bin but not before.


Yes, I've played some of the previous LotR games and they failed to impress just like the movies. I couldn't be arsed to finish any of them. The gameplay didn't stand out and the story put me to sleep (can't even remember their names they're that bland). This appears to fit that template as well.

So far I've seen ONE other person claim it's built on AC's engine, specifically Scimitar, but everything I've read in my searching says it's built on Monolith's Lith Tech engine. Last person that claimed this in responding to me reply after having searched, said he was wrong.

Technicality aside, I really don't care about past LoTR titles because from what I can tell they made the same mistake MOST games taken from movies do and result in a lackluster experience that can't match the big screen.

This however is a different scenario. They didn't just copy and paste a screen story and characters, they built a new character and story IN the LoTR universe, and created a new AI system called Nemesis which caters specifically to the video game format.

I also fail to see how a few similar animations = an AC experience. There are TONS of differences between this and AC. The only mention of AC should be that Monolith helped on a couple of the titles in that series.

I can see though that if anything will kill this title, it's people associating it too much with past LoTR games without really giving it a chance. Ironically THAT is their biggest nemesis, and it's a bit foreboding they even chose that word for their AI engine.
 

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Look at the video where he climbs up the side of a building. See that steel cable with struts hanging between two buildings? That looks like an asset taken directly from Assassin's Creed. The gallows? Also stinks of Assassin's Creed. Virtually everything shown in that video looks like it came from Assassin's Creed. Monolith may have purchased the engine from Ubisoft and gave it a new name but the similarities are way too abundant to be mere coincidence.
 
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the LoTR hate is strong in this thread.
I love the books, games MEH.


+1 for Silmarillion
 
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Why can't we get Silmarillion-based games? Turin, Feanor, even young Elrond, wtv.

cause there isnt anyfuckinone on this world that could handle that amount of side characters and stories in order to extract reasonable storyline for game/movie/anime/tv show/[put here whatever entertainment you would like]/...

on the topic
this is first lotr game so far that intrigued me somehow.
i have read the book 2 or 3 times.
movie was ok as soon as you dont have too high expectations.
games - never bothered with more then trailer videos.
for shadow i will decide when i see something more then nemesis' tech demo
 
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Look at the video where he climbs up the side of a building. See that steel cable with struts hanging between two buildings? That looks like an asset taken directly from Assassin's Creed. The gallows? Also stinks of Assassin's Creed. Virtually everything shown in that video looks like it came from Assassin's Creed. Monolith may have purchased the engine from Ubisoft and gave it a new name but the similarities are way too abundant to be mere coincidence.

LOL, you mention 3 little similarities, yet call it "virtually everything". And you don't even see the slight differences that make it legal and legit.

This team not only created that type of content in AC, they didn't exactly entirely copy it. For instance as I recall, those cables strung between the buildings in AC had 2 cables, not 3. If you're going to nit pick to that level, at least see the differences. The air assassinations also look different in speed and style.

The real injustice of your viewpoint though is not seeing all that is completely different from AC, like the Nemesis system itself, the combat animations, and the gore.

And as far as the claim they've bought one of the AC engines, source? I've searched for that quite bit when it was claimed by someone else, and didn't find anything verifying it. In fact I only saw articles of Ubi claiming they stole their code. How can they steal code that they purchased?
i will decide when i see something more then nemesis' tech demo

???, you can't do a little YT Googling?

https://www.youtube.com/user/ShadowofMordor

And there's LOTS more than that already uploaded to YT.

This is a quality production guys. They've got Troy Baker, Alastair Duncan, Liam O'Brien, and the writer from RDR.
 
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LOL, you mention 3 little similarities, yet call it "virtually everything". And you don't even see the slight differences that make it legal and legit.

This team not only created that type of content in AC, they didn't exactly entirely copy it. For instance as I recall, those cables strung between the buildings in AC had 2 cables, not 3. If you're going to nit pick to that level, at least see the differences. The air assassinations also look different in speed and style.

The real injustice of your viewpoint though is not seeing all that is completely different from AC, like the Nemesis system itself, the combat animations, and the gore.

And as far as the claim they've bought one of the AC engines, source? I've searched for that quite bit when it was claimed by someone else, and didn't find anything verifying it. In fact I only saw articles of Ubi claiming they stole their code. How can they steal code that they purchased?
I'm not the first one to have noticed it: Shadow of Mordor Accused of Actually Using Assassin's Creed Assets
Escapist Magazine said:
Charles Randall, a former developer at Ubisoft who worked on Assassin's Creed II, claims that Shadow of Mordor is literally using his code.
Escapist Magazine said:
That said, there's been no word from Ubisoft on whether they've licensed their engine to Monolith Productions, or whether it is the same code at all.
"Steal code" is your phrase, not mine.
 
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I'm not the first one to have noticed it: Shadow of Mordor Accused of Actually Using Assassin's Creed Assets


"Steal code" is your phrase, not mine.

It was your implication in the first place. You can't imply someone has used someone else's "assets", without making it obvious you mean you think they've stolen code. Assets = specific animations, objects etc, from a given game script. Now you make it clear you don't even know what engine is being used, and all this started over a claim it was LoTR, then AC, then climbing animation, a traverse cable, and a gallows looking peculiarly similar, which you somehow equate to "virtually everything" in the game. The whole point of that video was to showcase the Nemesis system, which is far more elaborate than any AI system in any AC game.

This is netspeak he said she said spiraling out of control due to media and user hype. One feeds the other. Sites just love to post this crap whether there's any proof or not, just to get hit points that boost their ad space value. I really didn't think you were the type to pander to it. I guess when it comes to games though, everyone has their own tolerance to little similarities in the nuances, and some are quick to throw the baby out withe the bath water and cry foul about a few samey details that don't come close to being the bulk of what the game is about.

I don't really care about what people have said or implied, I've seen the gossipy articles. I only care about the truth, and regarding that, Ubi haven't exactly been very candid themselves lately when it comes to how their PC games are made. I have no sympathy for Ubi whatsoever, and I feel this is no doubt legit creation using very similar but differently coded animations, from the devs that helped create t hem in the first place. Not to mention you are referring to a former Ubi dev vs Ubi themselves.
 

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the LoTR hate is strong in this thread.
I love the books, games MEH.


+1 for Silmarillion

This!! I hope when folks on here are busting on the LOTR, they are only speaking of a bad story in terms of the games and movies, because the books are the standard for an entire genre of books: Fantasy. I first read them in 1977, all 5 books, and have done so at least ten tines since!

Thus, having checked this game out, I too love the premise. It's set hundreds of years prior, while Sauron is gathering his power. I love the nemesis system, and i believe it will be a story worth playing. Count me in early on...no Steam sale for me!
 
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It was your implication in the first place. You can't imply someone has used someone else's "assets", without making it obvious you mean you think they've stolen code.
All you, baby; all you. Don't blame me for your dirty thoughts.


Nemesis is to Scimitar/Anvil (or whatever they are using) as Radiant is to Creation Engine. As you may recall, Radiant quests in Skyrim were the low point in the game.
 
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All you, baby; all you. Don't blame me for your dirty thoughts.


Nemesis is to Scimitar/Anvil (or whatever they are using) as Radiant is to Creation Engine. As you may recall, Radiant quests in Skyrim were the low point in the game.

Dirty? There's nothing dirty about preferring to talk in terms of fact vs fiction. I'm not the one trash talking and waffling over things that are at best mere matter of speculation at this point. It sounds to me you can't even make up your mind what it is that's off putting to you, overall similarities to LoTR, AC, or just a few samey animations and objects.

I'll try once again to get you on track though, because it's clear to me you've not seen much of the game.

1. It's not your typical LoTR universe, it only fits loosely within it with original content not seen in the book, movies or games.
2. It's not an AC ripoff like you seem to think. It's quests, power building and AI structure FAR out weigh it in complexity.
3. There's no sense in equating game engines with a set style of play. That's like saying every UE game is the same.

What's most absurd to me is your implying Nemesis somehow = dull questing, or maybe you just used a very clumsy and inappropriate example. I see nothing dull about the features of Nemesis. Maybe if you could talk on it's specific structure vs using ridiculous, vague comparisons, we'd know what it is that you actually think is bad about it. Or maybe you don't even know enough about it's structure to talk objectively on it.
 

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Personally, I have played the first 4 A/C games and I will say I liked the game play and style. I haven't played the latest few because it felt like the whole story was getting stale. What each installment brought to the table was not quite enough to keep me lingering. Not to mention boobisofts bloody drm. Now that being said I can't wait to play this game. We know its the same "style' of game. That's what is drawing me to it. The backdrop of lotr with what looks to be a finer polished engine than a/c. Yep. Sign me up.
 
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We know its the same "style' of game.

No, it's not really. You need to look at it more in depth. It has a few similar elements but it has many things that AC has never come close to having.

Like I said, the comparisons get ridiculous. I recall seeing a lengthy dev interview where much of the gameplay was highlighted and the interviewer only mentioned similarities to the Batman Arkham games, never once mentioning AC. While the dev admitted they drew some incentive from elements of Batman, he never commented on AC either, and does this look like a Batman game? I don't think so.

You know whats ironic though, I drew criticism from the main critic of this game here for calling PayDay a game styled after L4D coop, and even though IGN as well called it "L4D with bank heists", he refused to accept that label, even though the two clearly have the same same 4 mini boss system, the same wall hack visibility, the same heal your partner scenarios, and the same type AI spawning system the AI Director has.

The only real difference between L4D and PayDay are zombie vs bank robber themes.
 
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the54thvoid

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1. It's not your typical LoTR universe, it only fits loosely within it with original content not seen in the book, movies or games.

Right...

Original content NOT seen in the book.....

In other words, they take the generic world of orcs and men and throw in their own idea. I watched the trailer with that awful gruff hollywood voice over and when I saw the 'wraith' element I was like WTF? This is NOT the LoTR universe. The game looks entertaining enough but it's ridiculous it's associated with LoTR when in the book(s) the use of magic and 'power' is very limited indeed. LoTR isn't a sorcery universe in the context the game described shows.
I RPG'd the Iron Crown game (dice and paper people) and even that back then had a healthy respect for a distinct lack of overt 'magic'.

I'm sorry, you chaps can trade blows all day whether it looks like AC or not, what's important is it's got fuck all to do with the world that Tolkien created bar cheap lore references. I've not touched the other PC games from the 'genre' but no, just no. It's a plain old swords and sorcery title wearing someone else's shoes.

PS - this wasn't a stab at you Frag, just the game!
 

Frick

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+1 for Silmarillion

Noooooooo some interesting stuff and a thought out universe, but ... it is so annoying and rewards so little. Every character has like fifteen different names and they are all used extensively, the oh so beautiful elves are assholes and whiners. It's like reading the bible but without the usefullness and if it had more shitty people in it (elves). The Trilogy was not that bad honestly, but Silmarillion was just a wankfest.

Dwarfes are cool though, but they are largely ignored because OOOHHH THE ELVES ARE SINGING their shitty songs.

(which is one of the reasons why Terry Pratchett's Lord's and Ladies is so good, and why Dragon Age Origins was ok and why Shadowmarch is so good)

EDIT: Ok, the game. At one point a dream MMO was a RPG set in this world, but not tied to the already existing stories (I wanted a game set in the past, but not during any Ultimate Dark Lordwhatever period, and with the lands in the east). So far so good, but this isn't it.
 
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Right...

Original content NOT seen in the book.....

In other words, they take the generic world of orcs and men and throw in their own idea. I watched the trailer with that awful gruff hollywood voice over and when I saw the 'wraith' element I was like WTF? This is NOT the LoTR universe. The game looks entertaining enough but it's ridiculous it's associated with LoTR when in the book(s) the use of magic and 'power' is very limited indeed. LoTR isn't a sorcery universe in the context the game described shows.
I RPG'd the Iron Crown game (dice and paper people) and even that back then had a healthy respect for a distinct lack of overt 'magic'.

I'm sorry, you chaps can trade blows all day whether it looks like AC or not, what's important is it's got fuck all to do with the world that Tolkien created bar cheap lore references. I've not touched the other PC games from the 'genre' but no, just no. It's a plain old swords and sorcery title wearing someone else's shoes.

PS - this wasn't a stab at you Frag, just the game!

I think you fail to see that it's not primarily the small nuances that make a fictional universe, it's the setting, premise, key main characters like Sauron and Gollum, and key story elements like the forging and control of the rings. They knew going down the copy and paste path of following the book and movies was not producing quality games, so they interjected new story content into the universe, and being as it takes place in a time not even covered in either the books or movies, they give themselves creative license to do so without reinventing that which has already transpired in those formats. Again, signs of someone whom really doesn't know what this game is about.

You don't get top notch people like Troy Baker, Alastair Duncan, Liam O'Brien, and Christian Cantamessa, lead writer of RDR, if the game doesn't have enough tie in to what it's related to, as well as enough originality and quality of production. The Monolith team is also working with Peter Jackson and the artists at the Weta Workshop to make sure that the settings, characters and story align with the canon of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. That doesn't mean there won't be some inconsistencies you normally see in made from movie games, but I (and others) happen to feel what makes this game much more compelling than those before it is it DOESN'T strictly follow the LotR story canon, and it doesn't have to, becasue as I said, it takes place between the times of the LotR and The Hobbit stories.

So, by "generic world of Orcs and men", whether you realize it or not, you're slamming Peter Jackson himself, whom they've consulted with extensively on setting details. I know you're not stabbing intentionally at anyone, including myself, but watch more of the vids and you'll see why they chose to use the wraith powers. It's basically because the protagonist, unlike Frodo, has had his beloved taken from him and is susceptible to using such power and is convinced by Celebrimbor that it's the only way to defeat Sauron and his minions. So no, like I said this is not a copy and paste LoTR story, and that's a big part of what's compelling about it. It's set in the LoTR universe between LoTR and The Hobbit, and is sorta the dark side version of both.

If you also recall, what kept people from using dark powers in the LotR, was the ring would take control of them to the point that they didn't know what they were doing, and there was always someone there to stop them from being controlled by it before it got out of hand. Here, it's a wraith, not a ring, and Celebrimbor is not just some dark spirit trying to control Talion, he's fighting for good and remains a separate entity. The two actually have civil discussions, and when Talion is in wraith form, it's said that you are actually controlling Celebrimboir at that point. Now these are indeed huge differences from LotR yes, but it's in the same setting and between the times of LotR and The Hobbit, so it doesn't have to exactly align with either story, and that's the beauty of it. It's also a story that fits the game format better.

@ Frick,

I'm not sure each enemy class will be that strictly scripted in character style. They talk about each play through involving different personal enemy scenarios, and in doing so they'll say things like, "In this instance, these elves are held captive by a slaver". Change that scenario and they likely become antagonists vs whiners. You can see the range of personality changes just from Talion dominating them, so there's no reason they can't use scripting like that aside from possession scenarios as well.

Here's a dev interview by one of the internet's most well known game skeptics. It covers a lot of the points already mentioned here by those, well, skeptical.

 
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the54thvoid

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I think you fail to see ......Again, signs of someone whom really doesn't know what this game is about.

Ouch, no need to be personal. That 'I fail to see' is not relevant. It's taking liberties with a universe deep in lore. I'm not referencing the entertaining films but rather the books and the immensely rich tapestry Tolkien wove.

So, by "generic world of Orcs and men", whether you realize it or not, you're slamming Peter Jackson himself,

Good, he's over-revered. The half finished cartoon version was more relevant to the books. Jackson creates entertainment, not literature. For christs sake - he made the film Bad Taste.

If you also recall, what kept people from using dark powers in the LotR, was

the lore. Very few overt uses. Even the Istari were forbidden to use their power to aid man. True dark power in the books was through deception and corruption.

Here's a dev interview by one of the internet's most well known game skeptics. It covers a lot of the points already mentioned here by those, well, skeptical.

Not skeptical - not got a problem with the mechanics or feel of it. Just the creation of new content in a universe with a culture greater than that of mere sword-fi. I'm older - I don't like seeing existent cultural icons diluted for mass entertainment. It's akin to the Hollywood films that 'recreate' history which entrenches itself in the popular mindset, thus usurping history for fantasy. The game may as well be a Harry Potter spin off.

Signing off. After all, it's only a game. And I do hope it's a good one. And remember, this is all my opinion, 'ya dinna have tae like it', as we say in turbulent Scotland (don't mention Mel Gibson's Braveheart, it raped the history books).
 

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[MEDIA=youtube]o0GTudrIOF4[/MEDIA]
Not meaning to jump into this again but...

@3:00 and 3:25, the Assassin's Creed counter-icon popped up on one of the enemies.

Wraith = Assassin's Creed Eagle Vision
 

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pretty much what @the54thvoid said. Im, not interested in anything LoTR after i touched the first few I mean I'm an RPG gamer and this isn't an RPG this is someone using a well known story to weave some tainted references to what they feel will make them money. Anyone that actually respects RPGs for what they are and should be wouldn't touch this (maybe that's why their aren't other threads?). Some modification in some games is ok but one thing is certain in the RPG universe is that people dedicated to the look and feel of RPG/Adventure games usually don't like.

Playing games based off of movies or books since they have probably watched/read them.

Playing games based off of a previous story (original or movie/book) and having it heavily modified.

I'm sorry at this point the next lotr game might as well have Frodo shooting lightening bolts at people. The series is literally that pointless.
 
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