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Solid State Drives (SSD) isn't as fast as I thought!

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by EastCoasthandle, Feb 24, 2007.

  1. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    I found a video that shows you how fast a SSD loads XP vs a regular HD. Although the type of HD is not clear. But when viewing the video the HD only lags behind the SSD (which is very expensive).

    Here watch the video and see for yourself, is the cost of SSD worth what they are asking for?
     
  2. tkpenalty New Member

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    Dude... that is fast.
     
  3. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    Yes, it is fast but I thought it would have a been a tad bit faster for sustain read/write rates.
     
  4. tkpenalty New Member

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    DUDE... The load time isn't only reliant on the HDD, but the CPU and the RAM. Think man THINK!

    Also this would give you 2-second loading times in games.
     
  5. ktr

    ktr

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    more like 2 second less than the average HDD.

    SSD drives suffer slow write speeds...,equal read speeds to most hdd, and 0 second access times.
     
  6. Alec§taar New Member

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    It depends LARGELY on the Ramdisk/SSD type specifically used, & also what it is you're out to get out of them!

    Well, my take on it is this, IN GENERAL, where they benefit you for performance:

    They're GREAT for times when seek/access is @ a "premium" in what it is you're out to do!

    (I.E.-> You DO have to find the file, first, in the Open/Read-Write/Close cycle, & everything on your system IS technically treated thus, as a file (yes, even your hardware device contexts as well, but doesn't really 'fit' here that well on using SSD's)).

    So, to answer your question?

    On cost:

    ktr, a few days ago in fact, found Gigabyte units (4gb each, possible 16gb span/stripe into single unit too) for $120 each!

    [​IMG]

    See here:

    Gigabyte I-RAM FTW

    http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=25947

    :)

    (Pretty cheap imo @ least - a good "bang for the buck", for how I use a system @ least, & I note that below)

    APK

    P.S.=> How I use mine? Below in my signature... it works for MUCH performance gain, overall in my machine (using the SSD like how I used to use 2nd HDD's years ago, albeit on a faster media)

    Plus, better ones like the:

    [​IMG]

    DDRDRiveX1

    Are coming (better/faster RAM than mine (PC-133 SDRAM), riding on a better/faster BUS too (PCI-e 1x) - thus, better on BURST speeds as well as superiority is seek/access because these use PCI-Express & DDR)...

    & GIGABYTE has faster ones than the one KTR found too (SATA bus utilizing vs. PCI 2.2 & also DDR2 RAM iirc)... apk
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2007
  7. Alec§taar New Member

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    It is...

    :)

    APK
     
  8. mullered07

    mullered07 New Member

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    even that normal hdd booted up inlike 8 secs wtf ? mine takes 30 secs even tho i just got a new sata2 16mb pr hdd, any tips for faster startup/load times guys ? like tweaks etc ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  9. ktr

    ktr

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    That was on a fresh install of XP...no programs installed...
     
  10. Alec§taar New Member

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    For booting up from it? This I can't do on mine, older type, so I must ask if this is what you refer to, thanks!

    You're correct on the latter part (seek/access on them rock - speed of RAM, vs. speed of mechanical disks, HUGE orders of magnitude over them on that account)...

    Maybe FLASH based ones do go slower on writes, but I have never seen that in the unit I use (CENATEK), it outpaced my HDD I tested against it (120gb WD JB, pretty fast HDD for its day, fastest EIDE/PATA, & even would be good nowadays) in every area, in some not as much (writes) but it did still outpace it.

    Still, IF you want a trick to 'offset' bus speed constrictions, IF YOU SEE THEM ON THIS TYPE OF SSD (Flash-memory based ones yes, I can see that, but I have never on these) & nothing riding on a particular bus type can undo that once it is saturated, ESPECIALLY for writes?

    YOU CAN TELL WINDOWS TO DELAY WRITE CACHE THESE, just like any disk if you wish, as far as writes!

    (... they will respond & take to that, just like you can do in a right-click of a disks' properties -> hardware tab, PROPERTIES button @ bottom (next popup window) -> hardware, Policies tab)

    There, you can assign them to be "optimized for performance" (XP) or, in Server 2003, even more ("Enable write caching on disk" &/or "enabled enhanced performance", in combination if needed)...

    :)

    * SOME "FYI"... for better SSD write performance.

    APK
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2007
  11. Alec§taar New Member

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    See the above, to offset THAT on SSD's, the way you would for any disk via delayed write mechanisms (especially for writes, per XP's single method, & Windows Server 2003's dual method, especially for writes on this one)...

    :)

    * Solid-State disks is one area I have a decent amount of experience in, & I hope this all helps you for COSTS (see ktr's thread on that) & certain types of performance, above & beyond seek/access alone (where SSD's RULE)...

    APK

    P.S.=> Barrring costs? The DDRDriveX1 I mention above, whose author has contacted W1zz & myself a few times for & vice-a-versa on W1zz' part?? Is going to be the "Superior-Warrior" imo @ least, for consumer grade versions of these units...

    It uses a FASTER RAM type in DDR, & most balanced (for burst on sustained read/write) ram type for the bus it is slated to use (PCI-e x1)... better balance in this capacity imo, than the SATA/DDR2 based Gigabyte units imo!

    apk
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  12. Alec§taar New Member

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    Faster RPM disks maybe? I split my system up hugely on disks...

    Why? Rhetorical question there!

    Answer - Simply because they are the SLOWEST thing by way of comparison to your CPU, GPU, & RAM! That said, splitting up tasks most SINGLE disk systems handle on 1 disk, across 2 or even 3 or more of them WILL speed things up!

    (Especially today on systems w/ HDD controllers & busses that handle concurrent accesses FAR better than older ones did, that for example, made the HDD bus only act as fast as the SLOWEST disk, which is no longer true thank goodness!)

    APK 1st bootdrive disk = My main disk is OS & Programs, that's LARGELY it!

    APK 2nd data/downloads disk = DATA storage & downloads on yet another here!

    APK SSD = & on yet another (the SSD)...

    PARTITION #1: Here, I even moved my logging on apps & event logs & more from the OS + apps to my SSD + temp ops & browser caches onto its 2nd partition ( Formatted as NTFS, so I can COMPRESS the data on it RAM no less, & for GOOD reason: It's very fast, imo faster on loads because it is compressed in fact - today's CPU's are SO fast, the decompression process in SYSTEM RAM is offset by loading a TINIER file from an HDD or SSD even)

    &

    PARTITION #2: FAT 1st partition for my pagefile.sys (so I can make it larger, not losing 20% of the disk to MFT$ & metadata tables)!

    (Stuff like browser caches & temp ops as well, & it 'caught on' world wide when I wrote about it in the 1st original "NT OS Tuning Guide" back in 1997-1998 on NTCompatible.com on std. HDD's (I say oldest, because to date? I have not seen or found one older than it was))!

    However, the same principal applied, & excelled @ exceeding HDD's on, on SSD's like these as well when I did a write up on this for:

    • @ EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com
    • For CENATEK, in a review of the Solid-State disk I use now (page is down now, & ONLY recently, & the webmaster that hosted the page which CENATEK used to feature on their FRONT PAGE, even over ones from magazines in this field, was very ill, & an older gent - I hope he's ok: He has not answered my email about this)
    However, since they're either gone OR down now? Well, if you'd like to verify those, write all 3 sites/companies, they will verify these accounts.

    (I would demand the same myself actually, if I doubted someone, & why I mention it).

    :)

    * The "System Optimization" sticky thread in the GENERAL SOFTWARE SECTION will help you even more, & not cost you a dime...

    See, the principles in it are sound, & one of the VERY THINGS folks said in it that will apply to YOU?

    FASTER BOOTUP TIMES!

    Speed USUALLY costs MONEY... but, not in this case. Take what YOU have, & make it better, using fairly simple & easy to implement tricks + a small amount of YOUR time.

    APK

    P.S.=> Trimming off loading services you don't need, or drivers even, as well as various registry hacks boost that ALL TO HIGH HECK, & make it better! apk
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2007
  13. Poisonsnak New Member

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  14. Alec§taar New Member

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    To avoid HDD movement? I can see that in a notebook based scenario, ONLY!

    However, otherwise, I wouldn't go with FLASH memory based units, @ least, not over the ones we have pictured above...

    The $120 Gigabyte unit that ktr found in another posting (URL above), for the money?

    Excellent buy!

    IMO @ least, but perhaps NOT the 'top performer', because imo? That one's STILL COMING (bottom photo in my first post above, the DDRDRiveX1).

    * 1 thing I can recall about FLASH based memory is that it has LIMITED write cycles (by far when compared w/ the SSD's shown above).

    APK
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2007
  15. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    1. I'm interested in the overall performance of this SSD (through testing, etc). Because found within the results you will find the truth about this.
    2. I seriously doubt this would load all games in 2 seconds. Therefore, I would want to see how fast this SSD loads up BF2 (for example).
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2007
  16. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    There isnt a huge difference there, watch how long it takes the SDD to go from the welcome screen to the desktop, then look at how long it takes your standard HDD, at best theres a difference of 2-3 secs. Overall a well maintained decent HDD will always be snapping at an SSD' heels. The real question is how to use physical RAM efficiently to permanently store data, as some may be aware, RAM is highly volatile and for that purpose is why a HDD is needed. I done a theory and some working practice on how RAM could be used to permanently store data some 7+ years back, while it deffinately has the capability constant usage of the RAM for applications makes it very difficult to also store all data in RAM, on top of that you have the compounding issue of every time a system is restarted \ turned off any data stored in RAM is emptied. Obviously there are solutions to this problem, but none are what can be considered ideal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2007
  17. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    Alec stop hiding by appearing offline, wuss :p
     
  18. Alec§taar New Member

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    "Security, SeCuRiTy, SECURITY!!!"

    :)

    * By 'obscurity', lol...

    APK

    P.S.=> Truly, I.M. "The GHOST IN THE MACHINE!!!" baby... <- That was my old IRC parting message (close to it, on the ghost in the machine stuff) 1994-1999, & webforums signature from 1997-2006, everytime in fact...apk
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2007
  19. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    lol security, maybe. Paranoia? Deffinately :D :p
     
  20. Alec§taar New Member

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    Ever see the film "StRaNgE DaYs"?

    Well, this one guy has a line in it, that I DEFINITELY agree with:

    "It's not how paranoid you are, BUT if you're PARANOID ENOUGH!"

    :)

    * I agree...

    APK
     
  21. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    lol. Paranoia is all well and good, but there is such a thing as too much paranoia. Havent you ever watched that episode of the simpsons where bart turns into a geek an is convinced everybody is being watched? :p
     
  22. Alec§taar New Member

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    "BUT, we ARE man!!!", lol...

    :)

    (We're hijacking this thread, enough on this here already... pm me if needed!)

    * Thanks!

    APK
     
  23. Alec§taar New Member

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    CENATEK RocketDrive REVIEW LIST (older/slower than today's GigaByte IRAM)

    AGAIN: IMO, & EXPERIENCE, as I said above, regarding Solid-State Ramdisks?

    WELL - It really all depends on what you use them for (some ideas are in this post from me, OR in my signature below) & it yields as I stated above, the BEST performance for those tasks that tend to make seek/access a prime performance factor...

    (HOWEVER, other things can gain as well, depending on HOW you use it!)

    Right, don't blame you... so, here is a list of reviews on the kind I use below:

    (I had a GOOD indication of this in a test I did for CENATEK (more on that in my P.S. below), but their site has a TON OF THEM STILL UP THERE! See the list below...)

    A LIST OF SOLID-STATE DISK PERFORMANCES FROM OLDER 2003 CENATEK ROCKETDRIVE (one I use)

    (FROM THESE TRADE MAGAZINES IN THIS FIELD, PC-TECH REVIEWS SITES, & TECH TV. REVIEWS & MORE)

    (ALSO - KEEP IN MIND: NEW ONES LIKE THE DDRDriveX1 (soon to be released), & THE GIGABYTE IRAM/IRAM GC ARE FASTER or GOING to be, just based on the specs & electronics they use vs. older ones (slower busses used & slower RAM type used)):

    [​IMG]

    Windows NT/Windows 2000/Windows.NET/Windows IT Pro mag review: Solid State Storage: Is an SSD right for you?

    http://www.winnetmag.com/articles/index.cfm?articleID=25334

    Review: Blast off with Cenatek's Rocket Drive

    http://www.silentpcreview.com/article49-page1.html

    OC Addiction website review: CENATEK Rocket Drive SSD

    http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Storage-Devices/CENATEK-Rocket-Drive-SSD/

    New! 3d Retreat's 2 Gig Rocket Drive Review

    http://www.3dretreat.com/reviews/rocketdrive/

    Rocket Drive Earns a 10/10 from VoidedWarranty.com

    http://www.voidedwarranty.com/reviews/52/index.shtml

    First Look Review of CENATEK Rocket Drive by Marty Sems, January 2002

    http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/hardware/2002/h0501/01h01.asp

    CENATEK Rocket Drive Chosen as One of TechTV's Favorite Products at Comdex

    http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3360736,00.html

    Rocket Drive Featured on The Screen Savers: For Technology's Biggest Fans

    http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3365087,00.html

    It won't load games in "2 seconds flat" LITERALLY, especially bigger games... but, it should pick the files up faster, just by finding them faster...

    Still - I think he may have just been using 'slang' & exaggerating it some is all though.

    :)

    * ANYHOW: Do see that list of solid-state disk reviews, & of a SLOWER, OLDER, NON-BOOTING OF THE OS type in the CENATEK RocketDrive from my list above, for ALL of your guys' reference on this topic!

    APK

    P.S.=> Heh, my review used to be the "featured one" on their front page of the CENATEK site, even over the others from the likes of Windows IT Pro mag, & TechTV, but it's server is down, or something happened BAD... & I think the guy that hosted the site it was on might be dead, which would suck! He has not replied to me in a coming up on a week now, regarding this review of mine being down... & this is NOT good.

    The man was a GOOD guy, but old & in poor health last I knew of... if he's gone? God rest your soul Henk, if you're gone to that "rocketdrive in the sky" man...! apk
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2007
  24. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    Interesting however, it appears that SSD are not practical until they are priced competitively.
     
  25. Alec§taar New Member

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    Well, generally speaking? You're correct... I got a LOT off of mine, after I did my review (many positive points if applied certain ways, & for many apps, & ONLY LOW POINT I noted iirc, was price).

    However, IF you look? They're out there, "on-the-cheap", albeit possibly used OR older models!

    (Still, older or used (or not)? They will do the job, & if used, there is NO moving parts on them so they should be in good condition I'd imagine, as consumer grade models of these things are only what?? 2-4 yrs. old @ most???)

    Just as ktr did, see the URL where he found that out!

    I.E.-> KTR found a decent one (about the same as mine) for ONLY $120...

    (& I noted this above to help "overcome any objections" of course, & to 'turn you onto this' from an economics/financial standpoint, & trust me, I feel you there: BECAUSE MOST OF US ALL ANSWER TO THAT as well!)

    :)

    * Something to think about, in terms of economics/personal finance vs. performance yield ('bang-for-the-buck') viewpoints...

    APK
     

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