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Discussion in 'General Software' started by madmanjohn, Aug 9, 2009.

  1. madmanjohn

    madmanjohn New Member

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    Once again thanks to all of you who came to my rescue last week, especially oily as he was the one thats found the magic trick at a time where i couldent do a whole lot of research.

    I discovered a new issue within windows 7 and media player 12, and this may not be the place to post it but I could not launch it into the "General nonsense" forum as it would not let me in.

    This is a basic rant, since i know nothing will probably change because of it, i couldent find help in a windows automated assistant without them wanting to charge me money, but i am a msds subscriber and found an editors post that said drop me a line with your opinion so I did, and this is a copy of the email I sent to him.

    Good day.

    I am contacting you because I have not been able to resolve this issue any other way, I am a system builder and build and design computers for the entertainment sector that run lighting and various sound elements for stage applications and large venues.
    I am a Msds subscriber and get all the notifications. but unfortunately I cannot find this issue listed anywhere in your automated troubleshooting guides because it goes back into computer and OS history quite a bit.

    I as of this week finally had some free time to try Windows 7 RC1 64bit edition, and I was more than pleased with the performance which is much much better than Vista and am anxiously awaiting the release, but there is an issue and I thought I would bring this to light as this could be the start of a new and much needed precedent for media systems to come.

    Our systems run appox 4tb of onboard music, video clip files and thousands of XML and other data files for our lighting and video control systems. Some of our sound clips go all the way back to 1901's earliest recordings. These are cataloged for thier use by a file system uniform to the broadcast and recording industry where files are logged by thier recording date and main chart position as they should be.

    In the process of using Windows 7 I had discovered how easy it was to enter our other drives and storage folders into the new "Libraries" function and did so which actually simplifies things for my useage and this was a much needed improvement.

    However, what I did NOT know was by doing so, I had also just entered everything into the new Windows media player. Which promptly started adding its own and usually incorrect information to all of our sound and video clips. End result, return to Vista 64, and hand retype over 50,000 files.

    I am sorry to say that in our line of work I have very little or no use for Windows media player or Windows media center, mostly because of it doing too many things automatically on its own, sometimes unknowingly to the operator. This has turned what started to be a very good and pleasant experience into a nightmare in just short of an hour's time.
    If there was an easy and practical way to remove them both it would be the second thing I would do after installing drivers and updates. We use professional software costing hunderds of dollars to do specific tasks and services. And as the technology improves, there will be more of us using computers in this field. To be more specific, my lighting and video software each cost more than any copy of windows ever made. But they dont run by themselves and they dont run on a mac.

    While I understand that these apps are for the mainstream sector, and people being uninformed as usual need all the help they can get, the automatic features are a welcome and needed thing, but I would of expected a pop-up balloon or something to let me know this was about to happen or a warning of some sort as thier usually is with various versions of Windows I've used in the past.

    The other problem I have is the fact that somewhere along the evolution of computer systems and media players, a bunch of unuseable information came into play and warped a structure that had been in place for over 100 years. In the entertainment and broadcast sector, music and video performances were catagorized by -artist- title- album(if applicable)
    -recording date-release date- peak chart position- and final chart position for the year.

    This precedant was created over 100 years ago by "Variety" magazine, and became the standard we all lived by and learned, and Is still in use today by Billboard, and various other media tracking companies. Time has proven again and again, that when you play and use the highest selling and most well known product, you will please a crowd, therefore ensuring
    your sucess at your event or show.

    The "Star rating system" was something adopted by the critics within the industry and had nothing to do with the actual facts, but was a matter of personal opinion.

    Same thing applies to "Genres" as this too is a matter of personal opinion and does not reflect the actual framwork of the production involved, I.E> if it sounds like this, then thats what we will call it " and that was subject to opinion as well and did not neccesarily reflect the true description of the performance. What happens next, is this information goes into a large and growing media database incorrectly, and apps like windows media player try to correct this info with opinionated and sometimes dramatically incorrect information. There are separate and distinct categories of music and performing arts which have been in place over 100 years as well, and it would serve the public much better to learn it the right way as opposed to the uneducated opinion of some.

    Therefore most of the media folders are also labeled inaccurately and furthermore, if you should change them to what suits your needs, windows will most likely change them back upon reboot or incoming update. An action that has led to much further aggravation by those of us as well. Star ratings and personal opinions are definitely a users options but should not be the "Default" settings for any folder or media player. The general public, as a whole, would learn the proper cataloging technique if it were implemented and made default by nature, just as they have learned windows and other apps and operating systems as well.

    Default columns and labels should be something based on a worldwide standard and not something subject to personal and sometimes inaccurate information. If an induvidual chooses to lay out a folder a certain way it would be wonderful if it stayed that way and would not be altered at will by the OS or a media device without a prompt indicating that this was about to happen. Same goes for the media player itself. Nothing needs to be that automatic.

    A much better folder layout would be title- artist (Or filename)- filesize and type (Or extension), by default. Then add either chart position, dates or star ratings as a user controlled option that would stay in place and not get reset.

    Personally I would much rather have an onboard XML editor, not just a reader, as a default app than a onboard media player.

    The media players involved should be an installed option, not a system default, and should be chosen to be installed at the time of the OS installation or added afterward,. and the functions should remain selectable and not automatic. I know the apps can be written this way as they have been in the past, such as in early versions of Windows xp, where "Media player" was a selectable option.

    The perfect OS to me would be one where the user could select all options upon install. I personally have never used "outlook", windows messenger, windows fax and scan,or windows dvd creator because of thier limits. I want a search program that will find EVERY file in a computer including hidden and operating system files so windows search is of no use to me either, therfore I do not need Indexing services unless required by systems maintainence and backup. I use outboard email services, a device usually comes with its own app, such as in the case of a scanner, and have absolutely no use for messenger and if I did there are several "live" services available that do not need to be loaded onto the OS drive.I need burning software that can burn everything, including boot discs, not just what you think should be the priority, which is why I run outboard burning apps like Magic Iso and Nero. Total filesize of an OS drive should be kept to a minimum, ensuring speed, accuracy and easy maintainence.

    The main thing I need an OS to do is just run my hardware, with no ram limits, no hard drive limits, or no limits on cpu and gpu power, (I do use AMD products but do not and cannot use "Cool and quiet"< I dont need quiet in a room or auditorium with 150,000 watts of audio power, no one will hear my cpu blower) and no automatic control of sound devices- believe me- I know when I connect something to my computer and I will assign it accordingly and it would be nice if it stayed that way. I dont need my computer to find my screen resolution automatically, as my professional apps MUST run at 1024x768 and cannot be changed, regardless of what screen I may be connected to at that time. I do not want my download or upload speed controlled, give me what my hardware is capable of, I dont need a screensaver, and if my computer is in use, it CANNOT be allowed to sleep automatically. These should be the defaults, and the user should be able to custom tailor from there, not the other way around.

    Yes I realize this is the "Ultimate" version of this software, but I would hope that 7 Basic, would have all the hardware power, with none of the above mentioned side effects found in Ultimate, this is not usually the case, as there are always limits in the 32 bit basic versions. Large drives, large ram and faster processors and gpus are the future. Any limits imposed by the OS merely limit future productivity and creatibilty. Personally as a veteran circuitboard designer and tech, I can write my name with a soldering pencil but alas, never learned code.

    Media systems should default to natural known existing worldwide systems and THEN subject to user customizations.

    In the credit where credit is due dept, I do use and like the functionality of IE 8. I have always been an IE user and never had much use for firefox, or any of the others. I want my emails to stay online and not be downloaded into my computer, and definitely do not want it downloaded onto my desktop, theres enough crap there already.

    Let Yahoo or Google be responsible for my email backups, cause if its not in my computer, I cannot lose my recipt or whatever if something crashes.

    Another plus to Windows 7 Is the ability to run IE links from the taskbar, which to me is a huge timesaver. I also like the fact that the OS runs nearly everything upon its own ablity, and virtually needed no drivers whatsoever to perform better than it had in Vista or Xp. the computer as a whole has improved dramatically running Windows 7. I know several modifications and changes were made in how it reacts and implements the kernal and cpu processing this is very noticable.

    The "user interfaces" have partially determined the inaccuracies involved withthe "Automatic media updating" processes such as Gracenote, freedb, and others. So many people hear a line in a song repeated more than once and think thats the actual title, or it sounds like so- and so, therefore it must be -blank, instead of reading the case and titleing accordingly, but alas, this is not a perfect world and, unfortunately people who cannot read or spell do own computers. Therfore media updating should be selectable by default as was Media player 11 and not automatic.

    I will admit, Im not crazy about the folder layout in windows explorer in 7 and have no use for the public folders. This is something that should be removed until shared networking is enabled, which is something I do not need and would never use. To me, theres just 6 more empty - hard to get at- folders I cannot use being indexed for no good reason. I liked the user layout in Vista much better, as it was easier to navigate in explorer. And how about some better music for the samples eh? Just kidding.

    All in all on a scale of 1 to 10 ill give it a functionality rating of 4 and 1/2 stars.......my opinion.

    Please- put the media warnings back into media player 12. this could be disasterous for some people.
    Or better yet, make it a user installed option. I do not want it or need it. Now I have to get back to rewritning my 50,000 files.

    Thank you, and good day.


    :rockout:

    Im off to work, have a great night.;)
     
  2. BobBarr New Member

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    whoa........and 50,000 files? I would have the gun cocked at that point. :wtf:
     
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  3. madmanjohn

    madmanjohn New Member

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    Yeah. but its hard to hit virginia from the midwest with anything short of a missle, hmm maybe a lrge virus......
     
  4. Paulieg

    Paulieg The Mad Moderator Staff Member

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    This is fine, just where it is. Sorry to hear about your misfortune..
     
  5. madmanjohn

    madmanjohn New Member

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    could of been worse- at least i still have the files to rename
     
  6. EnergyFX

    EnergyFX New Member

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    I only read about half of your rant... but damn! Sorry that happened to you. I am a bit surprised you don't have all this media backed up on another storage array. If your craft depends heavily on these media files... why would you go tinkering with a new OS potentially jeapordizing their integrity without having a backup plan?

    Sorry... I don't mean to poke you in the eye when you're already having a bad day/week... I'm just sayin'. :shrug:

    In any case... good luck with getting heard by M$. I agree 100% that there should be a prompt warning you that your files are about to be re-named, re-categorized, and re-arranged... re-anything/everything.
     
  7. madmanjohn

    madmanjohn New Member

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    May sound stupid but ill roll the dice if the outcome is worthwhile, thats just smart business, and you never know till you try it.

    Actually this is one of 5 matching rigs, not the electronics but the files. this one just happens to be my personal one. However- in previous media players- renaming was always an option- this one did it without my knowledge, that was my beef. usually windows drops warning balloons on everything, sometimes for no good reason. id expected that much.

    as for the OS, i think 7 is awesome from a performance standpoint. the rest of the rant is about stupid windows crap weve all dealt with for years now. the files were backed up, no biggie, but i wasnt about to let this guy know that...lol :p

    some others trying this for the first time may not be so lucky- that was the pisser.:banghead:

    The thing about the folders though, thats been a bug in my craw for a long time. it was once said that our worst enemy is an uneducated public, and that holds true for a lot of folks ripping stuff and posting it in various places on the web. star ratings dont mean crap in the show and broadcast world.

    my whole thing is give us the basics, we will customize ourselves. ive never installed linux or anything else, but i hear they are fairly barebones. Problem with windows is if you get a basic Os, it usually has all kinds of other restrictions as well, be it ram size, drive size, or whatever. remember the differences in xp home and pro and pro 64? same in vista. What i want is full powered basic, in 64, with nothing in it but a way to get online to get the rest of what I want. with all the power and control of the whole magilla. and none of the extra windows garbage i dont need.

    truthfully ive heard theres better viz and video stuff for macs but unfortunately some of our stuff wasnt built for a mac.

    as for the 5 matching computers, heres a list of what is in all the show computers that we use regularly:
    all are vista ultimate 64 except one that is an old socket a athlon running xp pro. but it dont do lights or video displays, its just a dj machine. right now im on win 7 though still- there is a way to disable win media player 12 from the net- usually you have to enable that in series 11 and under, but in win 7 it comes enabled by default. that was the other problem i wasnt aware of.

    Acoustica mixcraft 4
    Slysoft Any dvd hd
    nero 7 or better- mine has ver 9 in it
    magic iso
    Perfectdisc 10
    AlZip
    Yamicsoft Vista manager
    Effective file search (This app is absolutely priceless, it goes into every computer within my reach)
    Latshaw systems KJ file manager (mine only)
    Latshaw systems Synchronizer
    dvd shrink
    Malwarebytes anti malware (A must have- got that tip here on tpu)
    Cyberlink power dvd
    Photodex pro show producer
    Proview video converter
    Ultra dvd ripper, joiner, splitter and converter (Induvidual apps)
    Sony vegas pro 9
    Winamp & Volume Logic
    Avs video editor
    Debut video capture (For screen and viz work)
    Funduc DupFiles anti duplicator
    File renamer 2005
    Mix Meister BPM analyzer
    Tagscanner 5.32 (Another priceless app and its freeware)
    MS office 2007
    PCDJ VJ
    Lite design
    Entec open DMX
    HW monitor (got that tip here too)
    Audio Editor Gold
    Sony Soundforge
    Adobe acrobat and photoshop.
    Norton ghost.
    MS DX10 Full
    Orban Broadcast peak monitoring
    Sound Spectrum G force & Whitecap Apps and plugins.
    Carbonite
    Audiograbber with the lame 3.9 dll

    I also own and run media monkey and magic tagger when neccesary. mine also has AZR zip repair and quick par in it. plus i have been known to (ahem) occasionally visit a newsgroup or torrent from time to time.

    Then theres the various apps for the attachments, like the Asus Xonar dx audio card, the Control software for the two video swithchers I use, and the other crap that ties it all together. they all run four desktops. there is also software for a Yamaha digital audio console in the two big rigs, one of which is my own. Also two programs for Both Shure and Sennheiser wireless mics to tell me which frequencies are available in the area we are working in.
    Also belkin usb wireless.

    All are AMD Quads, on Biostar boards with either the 780 or 790 chipsets with 4 to 8 gig of ram. All run the x850xt visiontek video card since we use composite and svideo so often. and all run on normal air cooling in the antec nsk4400 (solo) cases. Mine has a flight case and goes everywhere I do everyday. on it right now. see my system specs. thinks its a laptop on steroids:laugh:

    so you see why i really dont need any of the windows built in stuff.:D

    they dont call me madman for nothin':roll:
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2009
  8. madmanjohn

    madmanjohn New Member

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    Ok first if you have a large library and add it to the "Libraries" function in windows 7, windows media player 12 will automatically start to re organize files by default, including downloading cover art and so on, however it did not move or change the file positions or folders, just added artwork and missing file info, some of which was wrong. This did this before i actually launched windows media player so this is a new default action for windows 7

    However, you can remove all of this function if you wish not to include any additional folders or drives by un pinning this from the task bar and removing all but the default "My music. mypics and mi videos folders, or just pin your name folder to the taskbar and the library in its place.

    This way the only files media player can acess are the ones you wish it to, and you can pin "Computer" there as well and still have immediate access right on the toolbar, which is a function i like. should of done this a long time ago.

    I probably should of done a bit more homework before i sent that rant off to MS but they deserved that, its not the first unknowing thing they have done to us.

    ALSO remember- as soon as you launch Windows media player 12 for the first time it is immediately active on the web, unlike all previous versions which you had to enable in preferences first. It will start re organizing any set of files you drag into it upon launch. dont make the same mistake I did. make sure you want it selected first before you try it.

    That thing is much faster than version 11.it adds files faster and it added artwork to over 30,000 mp3 files in just 1 hour, which is how i caught it- cause the free space on my dj drive was dissapearing fast, which is how this all began.

    A lesson well learned- spread the word
     
  9. EnergyFX

    EnergyFX New Member

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    So the lesson learned years ago still stands true... F*** Windows Media Player.

    For casual media stuff I have been a long time fan of Winamp.
     
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  10. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    oooooouch. i'm glad i havent used libraries, or WMP on anything that isnt DVD movies.
     
  11. madmanjohn

    madmanjohn New Member

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    As I am myself. Seems everytime i ever wanted to try to use media player, it needed a codec for something it couldent do or it just didnt do it at all and sent me to a lame html page with all the wrong reasons for something i wasnt trying to do in the first place.:banghead:

    the only problem i have with winamp is .avi xvid encoded files. the video software i use seems to like that format more than anything else and in the conversion process i run everything at 320x240 vga so the file size stays resonably small while retaininga resonably clear pix and awesome audio. but winamp dont seem to care for that much, but i use it with all of its defaults for everything else. drop the latest lame codec into it and its a perfect rip and tag device.

    In my days in broadcasting, we used to have to do proof of performance tests and when i first built this rig and got the xonar dx card i used winamp with a denon test cd and got amazing results on my bench. ultra linear response and extremely low distortion figures.

    In my line of work, the audio is the show, the video is a gimme, we just added video displays 2 years ago. ive been doing audio for 38 years.

    Media center is equally lame, but if you have a tv card i suppose its not bad, never had the time to try it or a card.

    Thats why in my rant to MS I tried to make it clear, the only thing i want from windows is run my hardware and my apps. I dont need it to do anything else.

    If you havent tried 7 yet, personally i like it, its a lot leaner and meaner than any version of windows ive ever seen, but imagine that without all the usual windows garbage. whatever they did in the addressing of cpu and kernal must of made a huge difference. If thats the case, then an AM3 rig running 64 on high speed ram ought to just scream.:respect:
     
  12. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    media player classic home cinema is the best movie player - still needs codecs, but theres some great packs out there such as CCCP.

    Media center is designed for 'commercial' media - DVD, blu ray, and TV tuners
     
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