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The case of the super-heating laptop!

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Lightbulbie, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    So I have my laptop sitting here (In specs) and I sit there with a game open and what I normally do is afk on it over night, lowering my clocks and the CPU usage that the game needs. Lowering temps for the night. Well this happened..
    [​IMG]
    The CPU cap is 1.5ghz with a boost of 2.4ghz. Now from my understanding. The minimum power states are set to 0% (800mhz) and max would be 1.5ghz with turbo enabled. 99% turns off turbo and kicks to 1.4ghz which is what I normally run at. I dropped it to 0% on all which should put it to 800mhz but noooo. I get up to 1.75ghz! I'm wondering if it's a bug that causes this or what because it's done this before. This is the first time I've sighted the clocks.

    Here are the power options I've recorded and should be at when set.

    Max processor state:

    100%(Boost) - 2.4ghz

    99% - 1.4ghz

    90% - 1.2ghz

    80% - 1.2ghz

    70% - 1ghz

    60% - 900mhz

    0-50% - 800mhz

    Sooo should I be worried or does my laptop have bad feelings towards me?
     
  2. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    No, you're not understanding how that works. Windows attempts to control these things but in reality it comes down to drivers the the motherboard to handle low power states and giving the OS a mechanism to do it. It's very possible that what you're doing doesn't behave the way you think it does. Also telling the CPU to run slower to save power when there is load doesn't make sense because a fast CPU tends to be more efficent because it's consuming more power for less time in comparison to doing something that consumes a little bit of power for a longer time (which is arguably less efficient.)

    As for the turbo bit, you're misunderstanding that too. Turbo kicks in if and only if the CPU is not in a low power state, which means the CPU (before boost does anything) is running at 1.5Ghz. Boost basically lets the CPU go over it's rated max given certain criteria such as power draw, heat, load, etc.

    My advise to you is to leave it alone and let the machine figure out how to save power best. You're not going to do a better job by setting two numbers when engineers have been thinking about this for decades, unless you're in a position to actually underclock and undervolt your hardware which most laptops don't give the ability to control directly, there is no real tangible benefit to what you're doing.
     
  3. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    I agree with Aquinus, just like todays page file (win7/win8) its best to leave windows alone to do the work.
     
  4. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    It's not power draw that I'm worried about. If I don't lower the clocks my laptop will easily hit over 100C by itself and it won't throttle until 105C.
     
  5. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    never use task manager to get clock speeds use cpu-z task-manager has a ugly habit of being always wrong
    if you are hitting 100C on a apu then you need to disassemble said laptop and fix the problem
     
  6. RejZoR

    RejZoR

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    Wait, 26% CPU utilization isn't exactly without load... of course the CPU will kick up the multiplier...
     
  7. Kursah

    Kursah

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    This.

    Even at max clocks, you shouldn't be seeing over 70C imho... all APU laptops I've had experience with usually loaded around 65-70C tops after hours of max load.

    Sounds like a heatsink reseat with new TIM, blow the dust out of the fan and heatsink fins, etc. Use a laptop cooling pad or elevate laptop.
     
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  8. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    So today I should be getting all of my stuff since I moved two weeks ago. I'll see about replacing the thermal paste and reseating the heatsink. I've never done this before and this is my only working computer. Bit scared to be honest. I wonder if there is a way to get a stronger fan into the laptop that'll move more air.
     
  9. Kursah

    Kursah

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    Youtube is your friend. If not, pay someone to do it if you're truly that nervous. You could at least get a can of compressed air and try to clean out the ducts. Please do so with the power off and battery pulled...compressed air contains moisture upon decompression can lead to moisture getting on circuitry. The can will have clear instructions and warnings...use short bursts and you'll be fine.
     
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  10. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    Oh trust me I know what compressed air can do. My tech teacher told me that he rusted out a desktop using compressed air the wrong way. Last time that I use air to clean out dust I used a leaf blower.. Ever since I just got Q-tips and cleaned by hand.

    Also, adding in temps with just TPU up and Skype in the background. I'm sure there is something better for temps than just Speedfan..

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  11. brandonwh64

    brandonwh64 Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

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    rusted out a desktop......
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  12. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    your teacher is a idiot nuff said.. you could dip a whole chassis in water and it would't rust out
    just take it someplace and let someone that actually knows what they are doing service it honestly I don't think you are capable of taking the laptop apart and not managing to kill it
     
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  13. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    Id honestly suggest taking your computers to the PC shop for Maintenance from now on. Also Your Webbrowser will use some cycles (Mozilla based from looks of it)
     
  14. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    Yeeaahh I wasn't too keen on the rust part. Shorting it out? Probably. Rusting? Nahh. Issue is there is a lack of green in my wallet so I'll just Youtube it on my phone and take it slowly. I helped a friend work on it before when he opened it up. I'm sure I can give it a shot too.
     
  15. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    Here is my solution that will work until I get some paper in my wallet.

    An opening for the fan to push air into.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Good, yes?
     
  16. Kursah

    Kursah

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    I've seen rust in a case...entirely possible with cheap steels and pot metal that is easily corroded when cheaper parts are used on crappy/old donor PC's. A can of compressed air causing it? Maybe in small spots...unless you live in a really humid area, you wouldn't experience that though. But I have seen it in the arid area of Montana I live in.

    :toast:
     
  17. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    This was in Oregon. We had a few humid days but this was all inside of a highschool I think..
     
  18. lilhasselhoffer

    lilhasselhoffer

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    Perhaps you should take a moment, and consider the situation before hurling an insult.

    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. The computer (motherboard, heatsink, processor, psu, etc...) were not rusted out. The likelihood of anything like that rusting out is nearly zero, and even if it did compressed air doesn't accelerate the process any more than regular air.

    I'm going to assume that the computer case was a pile of crap. Assuming the stuff wasn't galvanized, and was made out of steel, this is easy to see. Someone buys a cheap steel case, and a cheap compressor. The compressor takes atmospheric gasses, and pressurizes them. When they decompress the temperature drops substantially, increasing the moisture content in that air to well above atmospheric levels and promoting condensation. This is why large compressors have a liquid discharge valve at the bottom. Increased moisture generates an oxygen deprivation cell on the steel, rusts the thing out, and the "computer" is destroyed by rust. Nothing impossible or stupid there.



    Now, to the OP's concerns:
    1) Compressed air is different than canned air. Canned air, or even better nitrogen, has no moisture and thus cannot actually increase oxidation.
    2) Your interpretation of what the tech teacher said should be heavily questioned; either their understanding of the cause and effect is impaired, or you aren't interpreting them correctly. Motherboards cannot rust because the exposed components are either not oxidation prone, have a protective oxidation (anodized aluminum), or are covered (masks on the traces).
    3) Laptops getting hot is nothing new. Throttling them down with windows settings is like trying to steer a car while in the back seat. You don't have access to ever setting, and the controls might not even me properly linked to the underlying hardware. If you're doing this reboot, go into the BIOS, and change CPU throttling there.
    4) Why in Hades are you running this on a laptop? If you want an overnight rig a decent APU or Celeron build will offer much better cooling, control, and won't be prone to overheating because of the obvious size concerns. Running a laptop, known to have thermal loading issues, all night long is insane.
     
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  19. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    with fans and vents being plugged youre still going to have many troubles...
     
  20. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    To answer number 4. My desktop motherboard died and I'm waiting on my new parts to come in. My netbook has a dead charger and this laptop is all I have (Besides my phone but I can't play Killing Floor on that)

    I have a mod on the game that I tend to leave overnight that lets me take off 90% of the load that the game puts on. Drops temps about 20C but I'm just starting to shut it off.

    To number 2. He probably used the air wrong, knowing him.. Y'know how some cans of air shoot out a water-like liquid? He probably let it do that.

    3. I'll just let Windows do it's thing and hope nothing melts.

    Aannndd number 1. I can't thank you enough for clearing that up for me. I learned something new. (LEVEL UP!)
     
  21. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    Seems the Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 1/9100 didnt have thermal troubles, however it was a big laptop and had 3 fans in it with heatsinks all over
     
  22. Solaris17

    Solaris17 Creator Solaris Utility DVD

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    oh its an HP that explains it.
     
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  23. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    read this please
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_duster

    your instructor probably held the can upside down, all gas dusters use a gas in liquid form
     
  24. Lightbulbie

    Lightbulbie

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    Yeah. I have a little bit of distaste towards HP.
     
  25. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    That's not normal, however mobile CPUs are designed for higher temperatures than their desktop equivalents. 80-90*C isn't unrealistic under full load for a Intel chip in a laptop with poor air movement. I have a Penryn Core 2 Duo that does 75*C under full load for an extended period of time without supplementing it like you are with the cardboard boxes. As others have suggested, replacing the TIM is a really good idea and that the compressed air thing is bogus and won't harm it in the slightest. With respect to replacing the thermal compound on the CPU, just remember when you're re-tightening the CPU bolts to go easy on them. My poor dell has a snapped bolt stuck in the standoff for the cooler because I overestimated how tightly it can be done. With that said, that poor Dell is still running to this day with a snapped bolt and temperatures aren't any worse (somehow,) so my wife continues to use it until it decides to die.

    A great example is my Macbook Air has a Intel Core i5 4200u in it, not a bad little CPU for sure, but it has a TjunctionMax temp of 100*C. Not that it typically runs that hot but it is designed to handle those kinds of temperatures. So in summary: Clean out the heat sink, replace the tim between the CPU and the cooler, and watch the temps and research what temperatures are considered "reasonable" for your particular CPU. Also keep in mind, if your boost clocks are active and it's "running hot" keep in mind that the APU automatically turns turbo off then the thermal envelope has been exceeded and will throttle further if it gets worse, which is a fancy way of saying, stop messing with it and let it do its job. :)

    I have a HP laptop in the closet that works well except for the fact that someone (cough, my wife, cough) stepped on it a couple years ago and crashed the panel, but other than that, works great. :p

    Also have an HP printer, works great. Also have an HP Procurve managed switch at work, that also works great. So why all the hate for HP? Sure, they're not perfect, but they're like Dell, just not as good (for what that's worth.) :roll:
     
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