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This is what happens when a tech forum discusses piracy. Saved for historical record.

Discussion in 'Games' started by ShiBDiB, Mar 2, 2011.

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  1. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    Just like running money though a photocopier, right? It's called it counterfeitting.
    If that's okay I'm gonna be one rich person.
     
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Please read my example. I basically copied you word for word (replaced a couple) and it makes just as much sense. :)
     
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  3. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    Pirates don't understand how to work for a living. After all its not rape. Its surprise butt sex.

    However they are masters at making excuses with massive holes of logic missing.
     
  4. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Ahmen, brother. The bold bit, especially.

    By definition a copy is not theft, because the creator still has the original. This is a really painfully elementary error in logic. Of course, Big Effin Media intentionally get this wrong in order to push their corruption onto us and get laws drafted (ACTA, COICA etc) to support their greed. Shit, take two of these Big Media: :nutkick: :nutkick: :mad:

    Well worth reading: www.techdirt.com www.p2pnet.net
     
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  5. garyinhere

    garyinhere

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    it's flawed because they wouldn't buy it but will steal it? how is that logic. That's a retard explaining why they shit their pants;)
     
  6. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    Who said that? And what does it matter? You are still missing the concept that most pirated copies are not lost sales. The pirate would never buy the game if they couldn't pirate it. So the cost to develope the game doesn't have an effect on piracy not being stealing. However, if you offer a good value, the game will likely sell in much larger volumes than if you offer a shitty value. Which is why Notch has made millions on his game, far more than he ever put into developement cost.

    Yes, exactly, they would pirate it for free, but wouldn't pay for it. I downloaded the entire Metalica library, I fucking hat Metalica, but I still pirated it. I would have never bought a single one of their CDs, or even gone to one of their concerts. Pirated will pirate something that is free just to do it, but they won't pay for the same thing if they have to.

    You ever go to the grocery store on sample day? You ever noticed how people will take the sample, but most never even consider actually buying the product? Same logic. People will take it when it is free, even if they only marginally want it, but never intend to pay for it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  7. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    i work for a living so do a bunch of people who pirate terrible assumption.
     
  8. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    Of course it's not theft. It's burglary and invasion of privacy, which are crimes on their own. But it's not theft.

    Pirates do none of that. Piracy is not theft.

    The other example is just as flawed. Copying money is not a crime, using and distributing it is. The act of couterfeiting implies the distribution and replacemant of real money. So you can create as many copies of money as you want as long as you keep it at home and don't try to use it as real money. If that makes you feel the richest man in the world... congrats! :toast:
     
  9. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    In my country even copying it is illegal, but you make a good point.
     
  10. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.

    You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.

    Think about something. What if you work years on something. Hoping that someone will buy it once you debut it. Then some piece of shit comes along copies it and enjoys it without ever giving you a dime. Would you be ok with that?

    What if we applied that to everything? Doctors for example. They didn't do anything right? They just diagnosed you and treated you like game developers entertained you. Its not like they built the machines they used to heal you right? So why pay them ether?

    I wish people would just admit they are fucking thieves.
     
  11. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    No, no and no! But we've been here before so no point explaining yet again.
     
  12. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    Yes, yes and yes. Them are the facts.
     
  13. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Piracy is not thievery, it's piracy. It's no better than being a thief, if anything it's worse as these people actually feel entitled to taking these game "copies" that some people spent a greater portion of their lives working on to sell to make a living. What does that make them really, I'm not going to judge others. I don't think it's right but that's just me so I don't do it. You're perfectly free to think of pirates as theives, but technically they are classified as something else regardless of how similar they are.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  14. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Shit, this could be the punch and judy show. :laugh: :toast:

    I say no!!

    Come on, your turn. ;)
     
  15. DannibusX

    DannibusX

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    Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh
     
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  16. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    Yes, but I've already explained why that logic is flawed. The game sold poorly because it is a piece of crap, not because pirates pirated it. If piracy was at fault indie games would never make a profit, neither would any of the big name titles that make huge profits.

    Which one of us is a pirate? Guess which one knows why pirates pirate, and if they ever intend to buy the game.

    Doesn't matter if that person would have never bought it anyway. I'm not out anything.

    I don't pay them, my insurance company does, and if I had to pay my own medical bills, I'd never go to the doctor. And if I absolutely had to go or I'd die, I'd probably never pay the bill, just like millions of people do. Of course, if they didn't try to charge me $30 for an asprin, and were actually reasonable, I would be more inclined to pay them. Actually, this example is a perfect example in my favor, thanks.:toast:

    I'll admit I'm a pirate, but without any monetary loss on the developers side, I'm not a theif. They are no worse off because I pirated a their game.
     
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  17. Easy Rhino

    Easy Rhino Linux Advocate

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    that's exactly it. it creates moral hazard. why should i pay $60 for the game when joe blow pirater gets to play for free.
     
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  18. entropy13

    entropy13

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    Right. So the counterfeit is 100% the same as the real money? LOL

    In many cases of games the "pirated" copy works even better than the "original." :roll: Which is the 100% now, the pirated copy or the original? :roll:
     
  19. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe if joe blow pirater got a heafty fine, or he got blacklisted by ISP's and couldn't have good internet at home anymore it would make people think twice. Honestly, the only reason most people actually pirate at this time is because there's almost zero chance they'll get caught doing it.

    As far as my theory goes, the bills are perfect copies. You bring no real argument to my point.
     
  20. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    There's certainly a moral argument about making that copy, because it might feel wrong to make a copy of something that someone worked hard over. However, that doesn't at all equate to lost sales, as we all know. Heck, it even does lead to increases in sales if the product is any good.

    I also detest the implied assumption, that if one couldn't pirate, then they might buy that copy of a song/film/game/qubit's awesome virtual products(tm)/whatever and then discover that they didn't like it and be stuck with it. What right does the producer have to make money by fooling the punter into buying substandard shit?
     
  21. Phxprovost

    Phxprovost Xtreme Refugee

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    Thats amusing with you talking about logic holes and then you post something like this. If piracy is really the bane of the industry and is responsible for a game being successful or not that then how would one explain COD? A game that is pirated to hell and back yet somehow....manages to rake in BILLIONS with each release.... ?
     
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  22. LAN_deRf_HA

    LAN_deRf_HA

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    There's some truth to the "they wouldn't buy it anyways" idea, but the keyword is some. There's some that would buy it if they couldn't pirate it. However I don't think the number is actually that large. I can tell you I am very reluctant to buy 360 games, even ones I know I'd probably like. It's just so much money. I've had a 360 since launch but I only have 6 games. You could equate this argument to the used games argument. Many of the used game buyers would simply not buy as many games if they had to pay full price. The developers/publishers aren't losing nearly as many sales as they like to think.
     
  23. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    If I made some software with the intention to sell, I would detest the people who take it for nothing. If I had a means to catch them, I would go after them financially. Buying substandard shit has been the way of the world since we used beads and shells as currency. You're making excuses, not a viable argument.
     
  24. Mr McC

    Mr McC

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    We've been over this before. It's not simply a question of viewing the two terms as synonyms, which admittedly is both commonplace and understandable: there is not a single body of legislation, anywhere in the world, where they are not classifed as separate offences and sanctioned as separate offences. Them are the facts and the only facts that matter.
     
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  25. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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