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Throttlestop undervolting

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crazydawid

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Hey !
I have a question guys, i want to undervolt my CPU, shoud i do the adaptive or static option in throttlestop?
Its 4710HQ in Lenovo y50.
 
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Toothless

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Just tweak the offset a little bit in the BIOS if you can, otherwise I'd think adaptive would work as long as it's stable.
 

unclewebb

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In a laptop, definitely stick with Adaptive voltage. With a 4710HQ, you can then use a negative CPU offset voltage of approximately -50 mV. If you get a BSOD, then you will have to use less offset voltage. If your laptop is 100% stable when lightly loaded then you can probably get away with using some more offset voltage. -50 mV is a good place to start testing. You can also use the same on the CPU cache. Reducing voltage will reduce power consumption. On these CPUs that are TDP limited to 47 Watts, that can increase performance.

The biggest problem with the Y50 is that Intel Turbo Boost is disabled soon after you start gaming. Intel XTU does not have any options to fix that problem which is common to the Lenovo Y50 and Y510P so for maximum performance, using ThrottleStop is a must. Check off the Set Multiplier option and set that to the maximum, clear the BD PROCHOT box and click on the Turn On button so your 4710HQ can run at its full Intel rated speed.

ThrottleStop 8.00 beta 2
https://www.sendspace.com/file/b4oure
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0dpSo9k93jDTE1fcHNtbUMwdGc/view?usp=sharing
 

crazydawid

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Im using throttlestop from 1st day with this laptop :) Im using TS 8.0 to set adaptive offset to -95mV (95 is stable everywhere, -96 and more is stable in stres test, but crash in games, strange)
I will try with catche then :)

Last one question, is there any performance loos coming from this?
 

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As the system is needs more power when gaming. either stop gaming or be less restrictive on the voltage.
 

crazydawid

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Yea but my CPU have really high temps, so im trying to get rid of them somehow.
I just repasted it and trying to underwolt now.
 

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unclewebb

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Last one question, is there any performance loss coming from this?

There is no performance loss when you reduce the CPU voltage. People have been doing this for years on their Intel Core 2 laptops and now you can do the same thing with the 4th Gen Core i laptops. On the 4710HQ, the amount of turbo boost or the speed of your CPU is limited by power consumption. If you can find a way to reduce power consumption, this can actually increase performance. An offset of -95 mV is excellent. Reducing the cache voltage is just as important as reducing the CPU core voltage. As long as your CPU is stable, performance will increase or your laptop will run cooler. Both are good reasons to under volt a laptop CPU.
 

crazydawid

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I got -95mV on both core and cache, stable, replaced thermal paste yesterday (i used MX-2, it have preatty good results on tests)
Im using cooling pad from 1st day, but i think i need to get better, more powerfull one.
Lets see how the temps will go now, becouse before was terrible, but depending on game.
Company Of heroes 2 run at max 79 degre, but Divinity Original Sin go all way up to 88 - 90, whitch is in my book a bit too mutch.

I will post back with reasults :)
 
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crazydawid

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Allright, so with new paste, cooling pad, and underwolting its still bad...
Roughly 1 degre diference in max temp...
Any other idea guys?
Laptop is clean inside, no dust and stuff...

 
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Probably a poor design in cooling with your laptop model, but 87 degrees is still safe for that processor.
 

unclewebb

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As long as your CPU is not thermal throttling, there is no need to worry about its core temperature. Intel has set the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the 4710HQ. This is the point where the CPU will have reached its "maximum safe operating temperature". I know that seems like a big number and it worries most users but why? Intel is not in the business to lose money. If high temperatures was causing their CPUs to fail, it would be simple for them to lower the throttling temperature but they are confident that their CPUs will survive for the long term. Intel sets the thermal shutdown temperature to approximately 130°C. You can play your games with no worries.
 

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As long as your CPU is not thermal throttling, there is no need to worry about its core temperature. Intel has set the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the 4710HQ. This is the point where the CPU will have reached its "maximum safe operating temperature". I know that seems like a big number and it worries most users but why? Intel is not in the business to lose money. If high temperatures was causing their CPUs to fail, it would be simple for them to lower the throttling temperature but they are confident that their CPUs will survive for the long term. Intel sets the thermal shutdown temperature to approximately 130°C. You can play your games with no worries.


True, but not every thing can take 100c i bet, in fact i fixed a DELL 1764 as the keyboard stopped working which i found the thin clip that holds the ribbon had started to warp.
 

crazydawid

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Hm, is there any point toi mess around with Turbo boost power max (47,000W) and Turbo boost short pwer max (58,750W)?
 

unclewebb

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The cooling in most laptops is barely adequate. You are concerned about your high temperatures so trying to make your CPU run at a higher power limit will only increase your CPU temperature. I would leave the turbo power limits at their default settings of 47 W and 58.750 W.
 

crazydawid

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I was thinking about lowering them, not making this grill even hotter :)
I uderwolted core by -95 and catche -100 and still...:



I really loosing hope now...

Thats underwolted, with cooling pad and fresh thermal paste...
 

unclewebb

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Why are you losing hope? Your CPU is running at a safe temperature. That's not my opinion, that's according to Intel. Their new mobile CPUs are designed to run at these temperatures so stop worrying about it.

You can lower your power limits if you like and this will make your CPU run slower and cooler. That is your decision. I like running my Lenovo Y510P at its full Intel rated speed.

BTW, the core temperatures reported by ThrottleStop are as accurate as any other program and if you click on the ThrottleStop - More Data option, the ThrottleStop reported temperatures are more accurate than any other program. More Data tells ThrottleStop to sample the temperature sensor way more often than any other program. In your screenshot, ThrottleStop is showing a peak core temperature of 91ºC. That other program you are using only shows 90ºC.
 

crazydawid

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And what are Your temps while running some CPU demanding games in Y510P?
I dont know is it normal, but my laptop is getting 75 degres while surfing internet in google chrome...
 
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unclewebb

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High temperatures are normal. Intel encourages this. They encourage laptop manufacturers to use slow fan speeds so their laptops are reasonably quiet. Intel does long term testing of their CPUs at some very high temperatures to make sure that they are reliable for the short term as well as the long term.

For comparison, I am getting about 40ºC while writing this in Google Chrome. Use the Task Manager and see what is running on your computer in the background.



A low C0% number is what you should be seeing. If it is higher than 1.0% at idle, start looking for what crap is running in the background on your computer.

Perhaps the repaste job you did was not that great. I have never repasted my computer. Make sure the heatsink is making firm contact with your CPU. You might have to re-engineer this. Find a way to tighten it up if it is not making firm contact.
 

crazydawid

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Temps were the same before repasting, so its more like nothing changed :)
Hm, my C0% numbers are high, what can cause that?
Damn, I woud be so happu with max temps like Yours...

 

unclewebb

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The Voltage ID your picture shows is WAY too high. Check out my screenshot. A VID of 1.04 to 1.05 vs 1.17 makes a big difference, especially when your CPU is under load.

Your package power when idle is also almost 10 Watts higher. Are all of your C States enabled? Post a screenshot of that window.

C0% of 1.6 is not horrible. On the Task Manager - Details tab, click on the CPU heading to organize that column by CPU percent.

The biggest problem is voltage. Post a picture of the FIVR window. Dumb question but did you use a positive or negative offset voltage? Obviously you should be using negative offset but double check that to make sure.
 

unclewebb

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I hate to say this but the reason your VID is so high is because your 4710HQ is probably not one of Intel's best HQ processors.

At Intel it is all about yield. The more CPUs they sell, the more money they make. Their CPUs are binned based on voltage and various other characteristics. If a CPU can run reliably at 3500 MHz at low voltage, those CPU cores can be sold for more money as higher end models. My 4700MQ probably could have been sold as a 4900MQ. If there was a problem with the cache, it might have been reduced from 8MB to 6MB so it ended up as a 4700MQ instead of a 4900MQ. Sometimes it is just demand that dictates what model a CPU will become. Intel sold way more 4700MQ models compared to the 4900MQ. Even if all 8MB of cache that was originally on my CPU was good, if Intel needs more 4700MQ models, they disable 2MB of cache and away the CPU goes to market.

That is how Intel has always produced CPUs. They play around with the CPU multiplier (MHz) and voltage and amount of cache and number of cores and then they sell as many CPUs as they can. Later in the development cycle, CPUs that need a lot of voltage to be stable are sold. Intel makes sure that their CPUs are 100% stable at their rated speed so no worries there but because your CPU needs lots of voltage for stability, it is naturally going to run hot and there is nothing you can do about that besides sell it.

Your first screenshot shows a VID of 1.1726 and your second screenshot shows a VID of 1.1055. That's a huge difference. From idle to full load the reported VID for my 4700MQ varies from about 1.035 to 1.045.

If you try to correct this problem by using a very high negative offset voltage, you will likely end up with light load BSOD issues because the C States are already designed to drop the the voltage when lightly loaded.

One thing that might work is you could set up a second profile in ThrotleStop with maybe a -150 mV offset. You could set up a keyboard shortcut so you could switch to this lower voltage profile but only after you started gaming. Use the ThrottleStop - Options - HotKeys feature for that purpose. You might be able to get away with that and then before your game ends, set up another HotKey so you can switch back to your normal profile. Beyond that, there is not much you can do. High voltage = high heat, especially when loaded.
 
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I hate to say this but the reason your VID is so high is because your 4710HQ is probably not one of Intel's best HQ processors.

At Intel it is all about yield. The more CPUs they sell, the more money they make. Their CPUs are binned based on voltage and various other characteristics. If a CPU can run reliably at 3500 MHz at low voltage, those CPU cores can be sold for more money as higher end models. My 4700MQ probably could have been sold as a 4900MQ. If there was a problem with the cache, it might have been reduced from 8MB to 6MB so it ended up as a 4700MQ instead of a 4900MQ. Sometimes it is just demand that dictates what model a CPU will become. Intel sold way more 4700MQ models compared to the 4900MQ. Even if all 8MB of cache that was originally on my CPU was good, if Intel needs more 4700MQ models, they disable 2MB of cache and away the CPU goes to market.

That is how Intel has always produced CPUs. They play around with the CPU multiplier (MHz) and voltage and amount of cache and number of cores and then they sell as many CPUs as they can. Later in the development cycle, CPUs that need a lot of voltage to be stable are sold. Intel makes sure that their CPUs are 100% stable at their rated speed so no worries there but because your CPU needs lots of voltage for stability, it is naturally going to run hot and there is nothing you can do about that besides sell it.

Your first screenshot shows a VID of 1.1726 and your second screenshot shows a VID of 1.1055. That's a huge difference. From idle to full load the reported VID for my 4700MQ varies from about 1.035 to 1.045.

If you try to correct this problem by using a very high negative offset voltage, you will likely end up with light load BSOD issues because the C States are already designed to drop the the voltage when lightly loaded.

One thing that might work is you could set up a second profile in ThrotleStop with maybe a -150 mV offset. You could set up a keyboard shortcut so you could switch to this lower voltage profile but only after you started gaming. Use the ThrottleStop - Options - HotKeys feature for that purpose. You might be able to get away with that and then before your game ends, set up another HotKey so you can switch back to your normal profile. Beyond that, there is not much you can do. High voltage = high heat, especially when loaded.
what about some kind of adaptive load-based offset routine ?
 
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