Upgrade Time - Advice Needed - X1900 to?

[HookeyStreet]

I would fight with the same impetus if someone said PS3 is much better than X360

I have to agree with you there

 

[DarkMatter]

I have to agree with you there

Glad to see you agree with me somewhere.
I don't like consoles much though. Closed specs, hard wired components. Uugh! Freaking words.

 

[das müffin mann]

n64 beats the 360 and the ps3 hands down

 

[keakar]

Good read and I agree. nVIDIA cards are the card of choice (by Joe Public) mostly because of there great advertising (ie TWIMTBP etc) I dont know why but ATi sit back and let this 'cornering of the market' by nVIDIA happen! (BTW Im no ATI fanboy, I like nVIDIA and ATi)

ATi do need better advertising (in game and out) thats a fact. FFS most people dont even realise that ATi developed the awesome GPU in the XBOX360

lol, i just have to jump in with this ATI vs NVIDIA malarchy getting too deep.

if the original poster is still around its as simple as this:

nvidia 8800gt = ati radeon 3870 - pick either one and concider them equal enough to flip a coin over

they are both the best value for your money by far. ati is a little cheaper but the nvidia performs a little better.

as for the ATI vs NVIDIA:

its not ADVERTISING, its not CHEATING by nvidia who are secretly conspiring with game makers (i love the post about game makers not letting ATI work good on their games lol), and its not little green men doing it.

ATI is losing sales because they arent putting out products that are better than what nvidia has on the market at the time, period.

its not the quality but the outdated tech thats killing them. its like they are sitting in a room right now deciding to make a product to compete with last years 8800gts card. whats the point in that?

i swear that must be how they are doing buisness because they dont even try to make a better product they can put on the market BEFORE intel has a better one. they only make products to compete with whats already out there.

just once it would be nice to have a truely new card that outperforms everything nvidia has on the market when released.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I know very well all that, but since his posts weren't selective AT ALL, all your arguments and later responses to my posts are pointless to say the least. He wasn't linking a pair of images, he linked a whole review with many cards tested, many games and resolutions and lots of comments and comclusion to that their results...

About the rest of your last post, there's a quote in spanish for what you say there: Cree el ladrón que todos son de su condición. That means: The thief believes everybody acts like him. Hope that's clear enough for you...

That was more manageable so I read that I forgot to mention with regard to your other post........you dont know if I am an AMD fanboi or not?? wtf? take a look at my specs, that might answer your question......I am actually an Nvidia fanboi if anything! but fanboi-ism has little to do with this, I will repeat for the final time before I unsubscribe to this thread, a poster basically said that in comparison to a 8800GTX, the 2900XT was basically....crap, that comment is untrue in my opinion, the 2900XT whilst not as good as the GTX is considerably cheaper and matches it in one or two benches, if you look just purely from the price > performance perspective then they are actually fairly evenly matched, this has nothing to do with fanboism so please dont suggest it has, it would appear from your posts that when Imperialreign contests some of your facts on a different matter also you seem to want to tag him as an AMD fanboi so I can only assume that you are what?......an NVidia fanboi.....if thats the case then you understand more than I do about fanboism I have already stated I am an NVidia owner and my previous card was also Nvidia....it has more to do with accuracy IMO.

Lastly, for the record, unless I missed something, could you show me if I have said that one card is faster than another? because I dont beleive I have and thats seems to be a major point you are making here:

Originally Posted by DarkMatter
"I would fight with the same impetus if someone said PS3 is much better than X360"

The posts were selective as he did not post a review that showed that whilst the GTX beats the 2900 in most things....it does not in all, now a review that showed BOTH cards strengths AND weaknesses would not be selective. After all, there are plenty of reviews out there that show the odd victory on the odd bench for the 2900XT, it would not be difficult to find one of these and link it.....but as I said earlier, non of those links actually matched the 2900XT to the GTX which was the topic so how can you say they were subjective? they dont even address the topic of conversations......and opinions which you kind of intimate should not be aired are what these forums are all about, hence what have you written about 2 pages about?

 

[imperialreign]

I taking one last respones to this, and backing out also - I'm quite tired of repeating myself, and I've had too bad of a day to be bothered with this petty tripe.

- 8800GTX is faster than HD2900XT, a few reviews showing the XT outperform GTX doesn't change that. The GTX being more expensive doesn't change that. New drivers didn't change that. Newer ones won't change that.

First of all, about the store. The questions were made to know if the advertising methods that we used did pay off. It was an specialized store and prestige was more important than making great profit. We were small and new, and had to make our niche in the market. Most people back then asked for products recommended in forums. More than half the people willing to spend some money in a graphics card wanted X1950 cards, and most of the times that was ok, with some exceptions. But there were lots of them that wanted 7900GS cards, because they had been told it was better. That is why we have the responsability to be clear in techie forums. And in this case that means making clear that 8800GTX and GT are about 20% faster than HD2900 and HD3850 and in most games and overall. After this is well establiced we can start talking about price and IQ.

No one that has tried to present any serious points has stated that the 2900XT is faster than the 8800GTX - I've even said the 8800 is faster, and not once in this thread have I stated otherwise. If you want to take it further, the 2900XT sure as hell isn't faster than the 8800 Ultra. The GT/GTS is a different story, and these cards seem to be more on an equal playing field - although, IMO, the 8800 GT is more on par competition wise with the HD3870. Again, I will state it one last time, the HD 2900XT IS NOT FASTER than the 8800 GTX.

Happy now?

- The reviews that it_is_me linked were extensive, thorough and objetive reviews just as the ones that I posted, and in no way selective as Tatty stated.

NO ONE has stated that the reviews you posted were subjective - all that has been said is that for 90% of the reviews out there, there is a good probability that the review is in some way shape or form biased.

TWIMTBP: You have despised this initiative when you said it is only a marketing strategy. It's much more than that. It is support to developers providing them with all the hardware even months before these are released. It is human power exclusively dedicated to those developers to help make algorithms to run better on that hardware and much more. Either you accept that it actually works wonders making nvidia hardware perform better on said games (besides from a marketing standpoint), or you are saying that both companies cheat. Cough ... Cough formula here is used mostly when you want to mention something obscure or when you want to nombrate an example of something bad. Nevertheless it's always used in a negative fashion.

Everything you just said is a merketing strategy - a corporation doesn't design some ads and throw them out in the market and see what happens - for a really good marketing strategy, they have to involve themselves with their target market, and make some kind of investment to see a noteworthy return. Any big corporation with a good marketing strategy gets involved with it's partners, and reaches out to where their product influences the market. Take for instance Microsoft and the whole Vista marketing stickers on new PCs over the last two years. You've again taken what I said out of context to facilitate your argument.

Price: Here in Euroland 3870 and GT 512 are at the same price. 3850 and GT 256 are at the same price. HD 2900XT was always 50€ more expensive than GTS 640. Amd cards discarded. Easy.

Thats fine for your prices in Europe, but I'm going by US prices, which - as far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong) - is the largest video card market. Our prices are going to be closer together and more representative for various reasons, and I'm not in the mood to get into economics.

About your links. Never said that site or store or whatever is it, is a crap. But I do say those reviews are crap. They don't offer enough info to let people decide or contrast that review with the others. So your only alternative is either believe what they say or not. With the ones that I linked, if they were biased you could easily notice it, when compared to others. Also they mention all the pros and cons of the cards reviewed in comparison to other alternatives.

you missed the point - the provider of those reviews is unbaised and respected. Thos reviews are how they are published in a trade magazine. I don't know about you, but I can't expect a trade publication to waste 5-10 pages within their magazine for one specific piece of hardware, not when they also have to publish reviews for various other components. The review that they publish is meant to be brief and concise as possible per publication restraints. Just because it's too short for your taste doesn't mean that it's dissmisive or incorrect, and more than enough information is presented to help the consumer make a purchase that they'll be happy with. If the consumer doesn't wish to research the product in question any further than one review - then that's their option.

IQ: When gaming (not looking at screenies) the differences that could exist between the cards are from unnoticeable to totally nonexistent. Another fact to my words about performance>IQ is that IQ doesn't affect gameplay where framerates does. Also 1600x1200 vs 1280x1024 is a lot bigger difference in IQ than between cards, or 4xAA vs 2xAA. Higher in-game settings are bigger difference in IQ than the existent between cards. 8800GT enables all that higher options where Ati can't. So recommending Ati cards right now based on this is a blasfemy. You did it, and I argued with you. That's all.

For starters . . . IQ makes a HUGE difference in both gameplay AND performance, if for nothing else than the fact that it DIRECTLY AFFECTS PERFORMANCE. I've already stated that the differences between the 2900XT and the 8800 series is negligible, but, going by ATI's reputation - they have the better image quality. I also stated that nVidia has come a long way with their IQ, and that's indeed noteworthy. Just because the 2900XT is only capable of x8 AA does not make it inferior to the 8800GT's x16AA. The 2900XT is capable of up to x24 CFAA where the 8800 is not. So, based on your methods and points that you produced - we could then conclude that the 2900XT is superior to the 8800GT in terms of IQ . . . unless, you want to use a different method for arguing this point?

Those are facts. Depending of how you respond to them, if you do at all, I wold definately mark you in my book as fanboy or not.

and that right there is stated in true fanboi fashion.

Both I and Tatty have responded by saying that we're not fanbois. I have no problem recommending nVidia hardware, or helping someone come to an informed decision.

Now, I have stated before that I am ATI loyal - which is different than being a fanboi. Due to past experiences with nVidia, and some of their tactics that I find distasteful, I will not, nor do I intend to, purchase any of their products. Does that mean that I am ignorant of their dominance in the GPU market? No. Does that mean that I blindly stout ATI being superior and or/of better quality than nVidia? No. Does that mean that I will always recommend and push ATI products on anyone willing to listen? No.




. . . and now, with that, I am done with this debate/arguement. I find no fun in carrying on any type of discussion with someone as equally blind as they claim me to be, nor will I continue to pursue a discussion with someone who twists my words to defend their points, or continues to say that I've made certain points when I have not.

 

[DarkMatter]

That was more manageable so I read that I forgot to mention with regard to your other post........you dont know if I am an AMD fanboi or not?? wtf? take a look at my specs, that might answer your question......I am actually an Nvidia fanboi if anything! but fanboi-ism has little to do with this, I will repeat for the final time before I unsubscribe to this thread, a poster basically said that in comparison to a 8800GTX, the 2900XT was basically....crap, that comment is untrue in my opinion, the 2900XT whilst not as good as the GTX is considerably cheaper and matches it in one or two benches, if you look just purely from the price > performance perspective then they are actually fairly evenly matched, this has nothing to do with fanboism so please dont suggest it has, it would appear from your posts that when Imperialreign contests some of your facts on a different matter also you seem to want to tag him as an AMD fanboi so I can only assume that you are what?......an NVidia fanboi.....if thats the case then you understand more than I do about fanboism I have already stated I am an NVidia owner and my previous card was also Nvidia....it has more to do with accuracy IMO.

Lastly, for the record, unless I missed something, could you show me if I have said that one card is faster than another? because I dont beleive I have and thats seems to be a major point you are making here:

Originally Posted by DarkMatter
"I would fight with the same impetus if someone said PS3 is much better than X360"

The posts were selective as he did not post a review that showed that whilst the GTX beats the 2900 in most things....it does not in all, now a review that showed BOTH cards strengths AND weaknesses would not be selective. After all, there are plenty of reviews out there that show the odd victory on the odd bench for the 2900XT, it would not be difficult to find one of these and link it.....but as I said earlier, non of those links actually matched the 2900XT to the GTX which was the topic so how can you say they were subjective? they dont even address the topic of conversations......and opinions which you kind of intimate should not be aired are what these forums are all about, hence what have you written about 2 pages about?

The reviews that the guy posted, didn't show the GTX winning in every test. There were some in wich 2900 was above or really close. I never said that to be false. But since you say those post are selective and aren't representative of the performmance of those cards, I can only assume that you are claiming there are alot more where the 2900XT is above. And that is not true. Yeah there are a lot more (better said different others) where the HD2900XT is above, but there are also lots and lots more where the GTX wins. You can't ask the first ones to be added without the others too. Because a post showing 5 tests where GTX is superior and 5 test showing the XT being superior it's not representative of the reality. It would be that one the selective and biased review. Do you understand now?

And about you saying "look at my specs" as a fact for not being an Ati fanboy look at my specs bro. It's just a joke. I am not accusing you of doing that, but sure there are fanboys out there that do that kind of things.
And about me being a fanboi... I haven't said anything about Nvidia or Ati cards that isn't true, and that makes one look better than the other. Am I a fanboy because I say Nvidia is faster right now? Isn't it true? As I said, I am discussing with you, because fanboy or not all your comments were in favor of the HD2900. I remember having this same kind of discussions when X1900XTX days, just that back then I was sided with Ati. If you want to call me a temporary fanboy... I just say what I think it's true and always back my thoughts with links. Until now you have posted 0 links to prove your points. 0 links backing you up.

 

[DarkMatter]

No one that has tried to present any serious points has stated that the 2900XT is faster than the 8800GTX - I've even said the 8800 is faster, and not once in this thread have I stated otherwise. If you want to take it further, the 2900XT sure as hell isn't faster than the 8800 Ultra. The GT/GTS is a different story, and these cards seem to be more on an equal playing field - although, IMO, the 8800 GT is more on par competition wise with the HD3870. Again, I will state it one last time, the HD 2900XT IS NOT FASTER than the 8800 GTX.

Happy now?

Yes it's the first time you say that without a "but" later. A "but" being: but it performs better for the money, or has better IQ, or it will improve with new drivers. The first time I just said the GTX was faster, if you agreed why did you continue argueing about this? It's simple. Part of your first post:

But, it just seems to me, that for every driver release the performance of the 2900 just keeps getting better . . . and for every driver release, another 10 reviews pop up slamming the 2900 in it's own competition bracket against nVidia's 8800 (and magically, the 8800 performance numbers keep increasing dramatically too).


Comparing a 2900XT to a 8800GT or GTS - cool, that's fine. But comparing it to a GTX is just kinda ridiculous, IMO. Those cards are in two different leagues. How can one compare a $400 card to a $800+ card? I mean, for the price of a GTX, you could go buy a decent quad core CPU that will breathe a ton of life back into a 1950XTX . . .

If there you were not trying to harm Nvidia's value, I am a monk.

Everything you just said is a merketing strategy - a corporation doesn't design some ads and throw them out in the market and see what happens - for a really good marketing strategy, they have to involve themselves with their target market, and make some kind of investment to see a noteworthy return. Any big corporation with a good marketing strategy gets involved with it's partners, and reaches out to where their product influences the market. Take for instance Microsoft and the whole Vista marketing stickers on new PCs over the last two years. You've again taken what I said out of context to facilitate your argument

Marketing is actually take some ads and events out. The other things that I mentioned is support. Support helps make a good corporative image and this helps marketing, but it's not marketing. If you wanted to say this you should have explained better.

you missed the point - the provider of those reviews is unbaised and respected. Thos reviews are how they are published in a trade magazine. I don't know about you, but I can't expect a trade publication to waste 5-10 pages within their magazine for one specific piece of hardware, not when they also have to publish reviews for various other components. The review that they publish is meant to be brief and concise as possible per publication restraints. Just because it's too short for your taste doesn't mean that it's dissmisive or incorrect, and more than enough information is presented to help the consumer make a purchase that they'll be happy with. If the consumer doesn't wish to research the product in question any further than one review - then that's their option.

If one wants to buy the better card for the money they have, those reviews don't show any alternatives. They just say, "yeah this card is OK". It's not that they are short, it's that they are incomplete. If they were publised in NY Times I would call them crap too.

For starters . . . IQ makes a HUGE difference in both gameplay AND performance, if for nothing else than the fact that it DIRECTLY AFFECTS PERFORMANCE. I've already stated that the differences between the 2900XT and the 8800 series is negligible, but, going by ATI's reputation - they have the better image quality. I also stated that nVidia has come a long way with their IQ, and that's indeed noteworthy. Just because the 2900XT is only capable of x8 AA does not make it inferior to the 8800GT's x16AA. The 2900XT is capable of up to x24 CFAA where the 8800 is not. So, based on your methods and points that you produced - we could then conclude that the 2900XT is superior to the 8800GT in terms of IQ . . . unless, you want to use a different method for arguing this point?

If only for this you have to reply. What? IQ affects performance? Dude...
You didn't understand anything. I am not saying it's better because they can reach higher AA levels. They are better because they can reach higher AA, AF levels and/or resolutions while still outputting the same frames per second. For example GTX performs at 1600x1200 4xAA at same fps (more or less) than 2900XT at 1680x1050 2xAA on most games. In that case you get better IQ in the GTX.

Both I and Tatty have responded by saying that we're not fanbois. I have no problem recommending nVidia hardware, or helping someone come to an informed decision.

And so I am. Still I haven't recommend him one or another as of now, while you have recomended 3870, with this arguments:
better IQ, better performanc/price ratio, between others.

I'd have to recommend the 3870 also - and not from a fanboi stand point. If it were a month ago, I'd defi recommend the 8800, simply on the basis of performance - 2900 on basis of image quality - it's a toss up, either way. The 2900s are still maturing driver-wise, but even still, it's starting to become hit-or miss with driver releases.

At least, from what we're seeing so far, the 3870 is surpasing what everyone had initially expected of it, and as ATI tends to go, performance of their cards dramatically improves with each new driver release. I think we've seen as far as nVidia can take the 8800 series, and ATI is quickly catching up to that performance level. The 3870 is defi a piece of hardware that will continue to get better as more frosting is applied to the cake, 'yknow what I mean?

Plus, on off chance that anyone really cares, it's DX10.1 compliant, too.

And it's common sense that IQ given at 4xAA doesn't matter if the card hasn't the power to handle this config. A card at 4xAA will always offer better IQ than one at 2xAA no matter from wich brand they are. Period.

Prices taken from pricegrabber:

http://computers.pricegrabber.com/video-cards/p/5/form_keyword=hd+3870/topcat_id=
http://computers.pricegrabber.com/video-cards/p/5/form_keyword=8800+gt/rd=1

As you can see not a big difference there too. Based on those Nvidia wins the price/performance by a great margin. I just entered pricegrabber and wrote "HD3870" and "8800gt" so don't try to say I'm being selective here. If you have better examples just post them.
Before I actually searched this prices I thought 8800GT was selling around 300$ and 3850 around 240$. And I was about to recommend Huxley to buy the Radeon if he was about to spend less than 250$, and the GT if he had more money. Same performance/price ratio, with 8800GT being noticeably faster and a better choice overall (because you are going to need a change earlier with the radeon). But now it is plain simple.

. . and now, with that, I am done with this debate/arguement. I find no fun in carrying on any type of discussion with someone as equally blind as they claim me to be, nor will I continue to pursue a discussion with someone who twists my words to defend their points, or continues to say that I've made certain points when I have not.

The same applies to you. It's funny how while taking my statements out of context all the time, you try to make a twist there.

 

[imperialreign]

I'm no further debating the issue - we just disagree, plain and simple. Huxley asked for recommendations, and we've all allowed this thread to de-rail and turn into a whole bunch of bickering. Sorry . . . I've just had a crappy day . . .

Anyhow, in all fairness, here's a different price list between the HD3870 and the 8800GT. Still fairly close in price, but the HD3870 selection is still currently poor. Another couple of months and there should be more models and a wider price range on those cards, depending on how quick ATI's partners cook 'em up.

8800GT

HD3870

 

[a_ump]

i would recommend the 8800GT or wait for the 8800GTS 512MB/1GB thats supposed to come out dec.3rd soemone said the 4th higher up but i've only heard the 3rd, but anyways the 8800GT is definetly the best offer out rite now price/peroformance ratio yes the 3870 is ok but its nothin that will run crysis at high settings or lost planet with high graphic settings
(don't even bother with very high, even the ultra SLI has a hard time with that on crysis)and since crysis is just hte begining of dx10 i dout u want to b playing at 1024x768 come january when some more dx10 come out. as for the 2900 PRO don't get it hogs more pwr than the 8800GT and they're about the same price (249-299) yet performance wise the 8800GT is better. i would say somethin about the heat problems some people have with the 2900 PRO but the same goes for the 8800GT it also has heat problems, but usually only if u buy the overclocked versions. many sya its temps reach as high at 92c and it does but all the reviews i've read say it can handle it. but if u get a 8800GT at stock without any oc'ing then u should be good to go and will definetly get ur money's worth.

amazon is where i saw the 8800GT cheapest(249)but everywhere else its 269+

 

[Tatty_Two]

i would recommend the 8800GT or wait for the 8800GTS 512MB/1GB thats supposed to come out dec.3rd soemone said the 4th higher up but i've only heard the 3rd, but anyways the 8800GT is definetly the best offer out rite now price/peroformance ratio yes the 3870 is ok but its nothin that will run crysis at high settings or lost planet with high graphic settings
(don't even bother with very high, even the ultra SLI has a hard time with that on crysis)and since crysis is just hte begining of dx10 i dout u want to b playing at 1024x768 come january when some more dx10 come out. as for the 2900 PRO don't get it hogs more pwr than the 8800GT and they're about the same price (249-299) yet performance wise the 8800GT is better. i would say somethin about the heat problems some people have with the 2900 PRO but the same goes for the 8800GT it also has heat problems, but usually only if u buy the overclocked versions. many sya its temps reach as high at 92c and it does but all the reviews i've read say it can handle it. but if u get a 8800GT at stock without any oc'ing then u should be good to go and will definetly get ur money's worth.

amazon is where i saw the 8800GT cheapest(249)but everywhere else its 269+

Agreed!

 

[DarkMatter]

I'm no further debating the issue - we just disagree, plain and simple. Huxley asked for recommendations, and we've all allowed this thread to de-rail and turn into a whole bunch of bickering. Sorry . . . I've just had a crappy day . . .

Anyhow, in all fairness, here's a different price list between the HD3870 and the 8800GT. Still fairly close in price, but the HD3870 selection is still currently poor. Another couple of months and there should be more models and a wider price range on those cards, depending on how quick ATI's partners cook 'em up.

8800GT

HD3870

TBH I don't care much about prices in the US, since they are not for me. And that's why I searched at pricegrabber, because I thought it was a good search engine for prices. I was naive enough to think that they had most of the cards at etailers listed.

If you had to buy at Newegg, 3870 without any doubts. But in the end the only thing clear about your links is: Newegg is a bad place to buy 8800GT and a good one to buy HD3870.

Now, please I need, yeah I need badly, an explanation to how does IQ affect performance by so much. Not that at higher AA/AF you get lower fps. But how at same AA/AF levels the IQ affects performance so much. It doesn't! Here are two links to back me up! In the first 8800 has better aniso in the synthetic benchmark, but the same at screens, then there's how affects performance. But since at Default and HQ the IQ is the same, what's the point of using HQ? And in all honestly even in HQ the difference is really small, but judge by yourself. In the second there's a comparison in AA. Screens are augmented 4x and still the differences are extremely tiny. And those small differences are due to Nvidia trying to conserve shapes/detail more than Ati, wich smooths more but at a tiny detail loss. The Radeon wins? Well IMO not as much as the Gforce did in AF. Now you remember that I said there's no difference in screens in AF? Exactly! So could you, please, tell me where exactly do you see those IQ advantages that would make for a purchase decision, even for a lower performer at same price?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/12458/5
http://techreport.com/articles.x/12458/7
http://techreport.com/articles.x/12458/8

Here is another one:

http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/AMD_Radeon_HD3850_and_HD3870_-_AMD's_salvation?/5392-14.html

In the first comparisson I don't see any difference that cannot be corrected with gamma correction.
In Crysis i don't see any significative difference if at all.

If you have other comparisons, please post them. And tell me where are those differences that are so important for you.
Please answer this, since I sincerely want to know where the difference is. Thanks.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Damn are you 2 still at it? It's like a whole chapter from "War and Peace" here I suppose the good thing is, if any member suffers from insomnia they can always print these pages off and have a good bedtime read......that will do the trick!

 

[DarkMatter]

Damn are you 2 still at it? It's like a whole chapter from "War and Peace" here I suppose the good thing is, if any member suffers from insomnia they can always print these pages off and have a good bedtime read......that will do the trick!

Haha! I'm still at it because my questions don't get an answer. And I really think that if someone makes a point he needs some back up. And his (and yours BTW but don't feel offended) claims are never acompanied by links. A very important part in a discusion on forums IMO. That's all. But yeah, whatever, maybe I take things too seriously. You are right there. Maybe.

 

[imperialreign]

If you have other comparisons, please post them. And tell me where are those differences that are so important for you.
Please answer this, since I sincerely want to know where the difference is. Thanks.

Like I mentioned before - I'm not wanting to continue arguing any points in this thread. But, because you are asking about my side of that point, and not for the sake of argument, I will address it later.

Sorry about that, but today is a holiday for us here, and I'm about headed out the door to spend time with the family today.

 

[DarkMatter]

Like I mentioned before - I'm not wanting to continue arguing any points in this thread. But, because you are asking about my side of that point, and not for the sake of argument, I will address it later.

Sorry about that, but today is a holiday for us here, and I'm about headed out the door to spend time with the family today.

Don't worry take your time.
I don't want to start a war on this too. I have provided proofs that IQ is not very different between the cards. You say it's better in Ati cards, so I want to see why you say that. That's all. Also since this thread was about recommending about a card and you expressely recomended Ati over Nvidia because image quality is superior, I suppose he deserves some proofs to let him decide if that IQ diference exist and to what extent. That's much more help for everyone IMO, than saying "buy this one, performance is close, better IQ". Since you went on saying that, I said "IMO performance wise 8800 is far better, and IQ is not very different" and I provided proofs to why I was saying that, so to let him decide.

EDIT: I changed the last part of the sentence, because when re-reading this I realised that it wouldn't express what I was trying to. I just wanted to make it visible and encourage imperial to throw in some comparisons. Original one was: AND I provided proofs to why I was saying that, so to let him decide.

I'd have to recommend the 3870 also - and not from a fanboi stand point. If it were a month ago, I'd defi recommend the 8800, simply on the basis of performance - 2900 on basis of image quality - it's a toss up, either way. The 2900s are still maturing driver-wise, but even still, it's starting to become hit-or miss with driver releases.

At least, from what we're seeing so far, the 3870 is surpasing what everyone had initially expected of it, and as ATI tends to go, performance of their cards dramatically improves with each new driver release. I think we've seen as far as nVidia can take the 8800 series, and ATI is quickly catching up to that performance level. The 3870 is defi a piece of hardware that will continue to get better as more frosting is applied to the cake, 'yknow what I mean?

Plus, on off chance that anyone really cares, it's DX10.1 compliant, too.

I'm honestly not sure what to believe anymore between these cards. The one thing I do know for sure, is that, IMO, without a doubt, the 2900 will offer better image quality.

 

[DarkMatter]

Oh! Ok! Now I am embarrased!
Tatty I have re-read all this thread and now I have finally understood you in regards to the "selective" links. You were all the time speaking in theories or generally. I was always taking your words as directed to the links of that guy, so I was understanding different things. So sorry because of all that, but take into account some things please:

1. My mother language is not english, and I have a hard time understanding some things, and it's also hard to explain myself. For example, it's hard for me to both express and understand irony or in this case when are you taking about a particular or in general.

2. Your first post about the thing:

You have a lot of good points there, but anyone can post selective reviews/articles....for example, you say that the 2900XT cannot match the 8800GTX??? I say in most things your right but in almost all the syntetic benchmarks it beats the 8800GTX but more importantly, in some games, even at high res with AA enabled (it's supposed weak point) it STILL can beat the GTX in a few, and as for power consumption/heat.....are you aware that the GTX consumes more power? Kind of destroys your theory......take a look at these "selectives"...............

Here I undertand you are saying he is linking selective reviews. And since you continued mentioning you could provide reviews with 2900 ahead, I undertood that as if you were trying to demostrate a better performance of 2900XT and not a fact of existence. I hope you understand.

3. When I was about to nuderstand the whole thing and I said:

So to get it right. You weren't saying his links were selective and you weren't comparing the HD2900XT to the 8800GTX based on selective reviews?
Well if that's the case, sorry. But understand that I got confused by this:

you wrote this:

No, not he in particular, I think I said any review can be selective (depending on the one a person chooses to post as evidence, of course if they feel they need to substantiate a theory or point then the poster (any poster, noone in particular) will more than likely post the one that best serves their purpose, even though they may be aware of another review that perhaps tells a slightly different story. As for the "but's, they were correct in the context they were intended, the but's were there because the selective review showed his comments to be wrong therefore the "but's" were correct, we just know that across the board the "selective....(read my example) comments are wrong but of course the selective review didnt show that........but......hey......never mind.

Also the poster that was critisized for his comments on how good the 2900XT was/is was talking (as I was) in relation to the GTX, none of the links posted were comparing the 2900XT against the GTX?? GT yes but we know the GT can beat the GTX in a couple, the Toms hardware tables does not I beleive get revised with driver releases so that could have been compiled at the time that the 2900XT had Cat 7.8's which is like 20% less performance than the card had with Cat 7.10's, I have no doubts that the GTX is the faster card, all I was saying is that it is not faster at everything and does occasionally get beaten by a card considerably cheaper, of course to a degree thats immaterial now as the 8800GT has come along that is cheaper than both of them and has raised the anti somewhat.

and I didn't understood anything there. Remember that in my next post I say it was 6 AM?

After that and this (just after a post by imperial that I totally disagreed) all went worse and worse:

Imperial....nice words, I agree!

And I think I have my proofs to disagree with Imperialreign, and that's why I'm still here. Waiting for a worthy response.

 

[HookeyStreet]

My head hurts

 

[DarkMatter]

My head hurts

Why are you still here?

 

[Tatty_Two]

@ darkmatter, can you see now why I just stopped reading and gave up, I would have just got so frustrated I may have said things I regretted! I completely understand about English not being your first language but you were trying to tell me at one point that my English was not good enough! Lets move on....no harm done

 

[Scrizz]

@ darkmatter, can you see now why I just stopped reading and gave up, I would have just got so frustrated I may have said things I regretted! I completely understand about English not being your first language but you were trying to tell me at one point that my English was not good enough! Lets move on....no harm done

Yeah let's move on

 

[HookeyStreet]

Why are you still here?

LOL, yep

 

[DarkMatter]

@ darkmatter, can you see now why I just stopped reading and gave up, I would have just got so frustrated I may have said things I regretted! I completely understand about English not being your first language but you were trying to tell me at one point that my English was not good enough! Lets move on....no harm done

Where did I said that?

 

[Tatty_Two]

Where did I said that?

Lol your at it again.....do U read what U write, you were saying my placements of "but" were incorrect, I mentioned they were correct in the context I was using them....remember? I cannot be bothered to wade thru "War and Peace" to find the post

 

[Huxley2k7]

I have one thing to say about this thread...