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Upgraded the CPU from core 2 duo T5250 to T9300 but the cpuZ & WEI scores went down

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by niraz_1980, Nov 23, 2012.

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Was it wrong for me to upgrade the notebook CPU

Poll closed Nov 30, 2012.
  1. Yes,must have gone for a new laptop..specs are low compared today

    33.3%
  2. Yes,Its a wastage of money & time,both..

    33.3%
  3. No,one learns when one tries..

    66.7%
  4. Depends on what u felt is right

    33.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. niraz_1980

    niraz_1980

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    Dear all...
    I recently Upgraded my dell inspiron 1520 CPU from core 2 duo T5250,1.5 GHz to T9300 2.5 GHz but the cpuZ & WEI scores went down..CPUZ shows 900MHz max(after disabling speedstep otherwise 600 MHZ only) with 4 multiplier..the WEI score for processor calculations went down to 2.3 from earlier 4.8...i also increased the ram from dual 2x1 GB to corsair 2x2GB cas 5 PC2 5300 but still the WEI score shows 2.9 from earlier 4.8...whats all this ?..can anybody please explain....Is it that the processor & ram are not ok..? or is it not supported on my motherboard..dell inc 0KY768,PM965 chipset...btw processor is properly seated over socket,thermal compound used was IC diamond 7..purchased the processor online from pc_bestbuy from ebay for 99$..should i return the processor????:banghead: I there any utility where i cud really test my procesor speed i 've tried pm95,intel burn test etc..no change in core speed on cpu-z...also ,after enabling speedstep in bios sometimes in cpu-z the core speed rises to 2.5 ghz with 11 multiplier..i've posted snapshots for all..please tell me the reasons..u 're overclocker guys..plz help..!

    regards
    niraz
     

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  2. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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    probably the BIOS not recognizing the chip properly.
     
  3. TC-man

    TC-man

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  4. niraz_1980

    niraz_1980

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    Upgraded the CPU from core 2 duo T5250 to T9300 but the cpuZ & WEI scores went down

    Yes...i have the latest bios ver A09..is it that i need to put even more less heatsink paste over the cpu than what i applied(as it is,i have applied just the optimum amount..not more neither less)..
     
  5. TC-man

    TC-man

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    And have you try clearing cmos/bios of your notebook after upgrading the CPU, either involving removing the battery or using some specific procedure for clearing the cmos (read more about it in the booklet of your Dell Inspiron 1520)? If not, try that first, and see if you are now getting the correct clock speed of the T9300.

    Another possibility is that the CPU is throttling because of overheating. So make sure your cooling is sufficient for the T9300 which is in fact has a much higher clock speed (upgrading from 1.5 GHz to 2.5 GHz). As for thermal compound, I would say a pea size of thermal compound is enough.
     
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  6. BarbaricSoul

    BarbaricSoul

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    I'm willing to bet what your seeing in CPUZ is normal. Just because you have a 2.5 ghz CPU doesn't mean it will run at 2.5ghz all the time. It'll only run at 2.5ghz when you need it to. To save electricity and reduce heat output, computers will downclock themselves when on idle or doing something that is not CPU intensive. Video cards do the same thing.

    About the WIE score, who really cares about WIE scores. They are meaningless really. The only scores that really matter are benchmark scores that are related to your regular use of the computer, ie. benchmarks from games you play.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  7. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    This.

    It is hard to make out on the tiny screenshot, but it looks like the bus speed is still running at 166MHz, the T9300 should be running at 200MHz. This is definitely a motherboard issue. The T9300 is a generation newer than the T5250, so it is likely the BIOS for the the laptop doesn't recognize the processor properly.
     
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    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  8. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

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    You swapped CPUs from a 65nm to a 45nm device. While they can use the same socket (PGA478)... and have a similar thermal rating 35W, there are two things to consider:

    1./ The T9300 has a smaller die size... meaning that the 35W of heat is spread over a smaller area (and therefore needs a more effective cooler)
    2./ The package of the T9300 may be of a very slightly different height

    So... inspect and check very carefully how the cooler matches up with the new CPU. It might need a thin copper shim to bridge a small gap... and make sure the cooler is properly mounted with thermal paste. Don't over-paste to try to fill the gap.

    A silly question perhaps, but worth checking... DID YOU REPLACE THE FAN CONNECTOR? Easily done... not reattaching the fan properly!

    If you are using the latest BIOS, try using a monitoring program to check the speeds and speedstep. Since the BIOS did let you run it at 2.5Ghz, albeit only briefly, then there may be an issue with thermal management not being properly supported by the bios.
     
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  9. stinger608

    stinger608 Dedicated TPU Cruncher & Folder

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    They are two different socket types. One is a PPGA478 and the other is a PGA478. You can get the info here:

    T9300: http://ark.intel.com/products/33917/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-T9300-(6M-Cache-2_50-GHz-800-MHz-FSB)

    T5250: http://ark.intel.com/products/30786/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-T5250-(2M-Cache-1_50-GHz-667-MHz-FSB)

    Sorry but one will not work in the other socket. It will fit and boot, but you will not be able to configure the chip correctly.

    If you can return the chip, then I would suggest that. If however you cannot return the T9300 chip you might try and sell it to recoup at least some of your investment.
     
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    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb RealTemp Author

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    For Core 2 mobile processors to work correctly, you need to have EIST - SpeedStep enabled in the bios.

    If your bios does not recognize your CPU, it will usually set it to the default multiplier which is 6. With SLFM - Super Low Frequency Mode enabled, you get an 8 multiplier but the bus speed gets dropped in half internally. CPU-Z reports this as equivalent to a multiplier of 4.

    You should be able to use ThrottleStop to increase the multiplier. It writes multiplier information directly to the CPU so if the bios doesn't know anything about your CPU, it doesn't matter. As long as you can boot up, ThrottleStop can take over and help out.

    ThrottleStop 5.00
    http://www.techinferno.com/downloads/

    To use it, put a check mark in the Set Multiplier box and set the VID voltage as high as possible and then set the multiplier as high as possible. Push the Turn On button and away you go. You can run a single thread of the built in TS Bench test to make sure your multiplier is increasing when under load. Also make sure you are using the Windows high performance profile. This is explained in the ThrottleStop docs.

    Post some screen shots when you are done and let us know what your new WEI score is. :)

    stinger608: Good call. It looks like it is working but this CPU will never run at its full speed because of the reduced front side bus speed. If he can get the multiplier higher, at least it won't be quite as sluggish.

    Also download the latest version of CPU-Z 1.62. The maximum Intel Dynamic Acceleration (IDA) multiplier for a T9300 is 13.5 when a single core is active. CPU-Z showing 16 looks like a bug. For accurate results when using ThrottleStop, turn off CPU-Z. Some of the older versions of CPU-Z like 1.61.x were using the same system monitoring timers which could interfere with ThrottleStop's results.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
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  11. bencrutz

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    check if you have a "AC adapter not recognized" error in BIOS...

    if so, replace the AC adapter
     
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  12. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

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    Well spotten Stinger. I didnt initially spot the difference between PGA478 and PPGA478. How confusing for the regular consumer. Intel actually calls PPGA478 Socket P. It would be helpful if the ark.intel.com data actually used this to help differentiate the processors.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_P

    The fact that the OP can get this to run is a positive sign. However, I'd want to check FSB voltages to make sure they are within scope of the new chip, and if the BIOS cant drive the multipler due to missing microcode definition, then perhaps unclewebb software solution will do the trick.

    Whatever the situation, I'm curious on the result! Good luck
     
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  13. bencrutz

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    T5250 and T9300 are using the same socket P

    the chipset is 965 series (cant recall if it's GM or PM) that should support 200MHz FSB.

    OP should check if the AC adaptor is recognized properly (as a 90W adapter) in the BIOS, and enable speedstep.
     
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  14. unclewebb

    unclewebb RealTemp Author

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  15. bencrutz

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    i honestly dont think it will do.

    bsel mod is to force processor run at higher than the default FSB, and only works in non intel chipset (in the case of mobile platform)
     
  16. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

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    BSEL mod tricks the chipset into thinking the CPU is asking for a different FSB. So the chipset needs to support the higher FSB. The CPU doesnt have to. You bascially OC the CPU by one FSB notch. It works on Intel chipsets.

    Example. (and from personal experience, I do this) take a Xeon E5420 at 2.5GHz, BSEL mod it to run at 3.0GHz. Works only if the chipset supports the higher FSB.

    Regarding socket P. Well, one site Intel says one thing. And another site CPU World says something else. How confusing for everyone. I don't know these processors or this chipset family so I won't take a view either way... except that the OP did get it running at the expected higher multiplier... but only for a very short while. I am still leaning on the view this is a thermal management issue. Either physical... the processor cooler isnt mounted successfully, or fan, or a software/firmware issue, where thermal management is kicking in at the wrong time... wrong voltage etc. etc.

    Anyway, good luck.
     
  17. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    A BSEL mod isn't going to help anything here. As has been mentions, the chipset has to support the higher FSB, and the mod tricks the motherboard into running a higher FSB by making the CPU ask for the higher FSB. In the OP's case, he is already using a CPU that is asking for a 200FSB, and the motherboard isn't giving it because the motherboard/chipset doesn't support 200FSB.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  18. Pehla

    Pehla

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    this!! u should reasearch before buying cpu...,if u can return it!! :banghead:
     
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  19. niraz_1980

    niraz_1980

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    Upgraded the CPU from core 2 duo T5250 to T9300 but the cpuZ & WEI scores went down

    Thanks everybody for showing such a great interest,at least that's what is truly expected of the Tech enthusiasts...seems the bloodbath has already started, but let me tell you.. that i had all the money to buy even the latest config laptops..but still i thought , naaaahhh...thats isn't what i want to do..i want to upgarde the machine as well as my understanding of these systems & see for myself what i gained..now even its a 50-50 situation right now,i still won't give up that easily..now few things that i would like to share with you all are:

    1.@stinger608 & @unclewebb & @lemonadesoda: Thanks 4 such gr8 concern..now,What i understand is that PGA478 & PPGA478 are the same thing.even over my socket its written mPGA478 MN... plz refer the page; http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/cs-009863.htm & http://www.ehow.com/info_8759207_difference-between-ppga478-pga478.html

    @unclewebb & @newtekie1:Definitely,i'll use throttlestop & let us all know..also i'm using CPU-Z 1.62 ver only.also my Mobo can surely run @ 200Mhz FSB (Dell inc.model no.0KY768 PM965 chipset)

    @lemonadesoda & @BarbaricSoul:as u can check from the snaps T9300 is actually larger in size than T5250.also i have posted a snap of the paste used.actually cooling is no the issue as my core temp's are 40/42 only with VID at 0.95 V(which is the minimal value & the real hidden concern i presume).fan comes up at certain intervals as per usage but core speed even afer disabling speed step gets fixed to 900 Mhz in BIOS and is not editable...quest. is why only 900 MHZ of 2.5 GHZ.

    2.@bencrutz: you have come closest to my suppositions...now i kept wondering why even after running sisoftware & 3DMark 6 why the core VID doesn't rise to propel the cores..& i found yesterday 4AM ..that my 9-cell battery was dead long ago..but found my 90 Watt AC adaptor isn't being recognised anymore...now see

    a.My battery : worthless unknown to bios
    b.charger : unknown to bios

    so,it might be that the bios is not throttling up the cpu core speed coz of unknown charging device & putting it always at lowest 0.95 volts as a measure to save CPU.

    Need to arrange charger & battery as well (more pennies to go n what if newtekie1 is right a mobo issue,then what..A new processor or a new laptop)..lets see how far my zeal for the ultimate truth goes ...

    Well thanks for all ur advices.. please post any of any..iest single click of idea that my trigger it all correct in one shot..will keep u all posted..niraz..!!!
     

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  20. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    You are correct, I just looked it up. The chipset also supports the T9300 according to Intel. However, that doesn't mean Dell supports the processor with their BIOS. Dell likes to not add support for newer/better processor to their BIOSes, locking the user into a select few processors.

    They're both Socket P processors, this is not a socket compatibility issue. If it was a socket issue the computer wouldn't even post.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
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    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  21. unclewebb

    unclewebb RealTemp Author

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    Does CPU-Z show the PM 965 chipset or is it the GM965 chipset with integrated graphics?

    http://www.dell.com/support/drivers...0?driverId=CJH5H&osCode=WW1&fileId=2731105440

    http://ark.intel.com/products/29821/Intel-82GM965-Graphics-and-Memory-Controller

    The chipset supports the 800 MHz bus speed but if the bios does not recognize your CPU, it will probably default to 667 MHz instead.

    You need EIST to be enabled to adjust the multiplier and voltage. The bios might disable EIST when it has a CPU that it doesn't know what to do with it which can leave the CPU locked at the minimum multiplier and VID.

    When there is a problem with the power adapter, some Dell laptops use clock modulation throttling as well as the minimum multiplier which really kills performance. Hopefully ThrottleStop can help out.
     
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  22. niraz_1980

    niraz_1980

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    Upgraded the CPU from core 2 duo T5250 to T9300 but the cpuZ & WEI scores went down

    yes @@unclewebb & @newtekie1:throttlesop has helped me out and now after slightly increasing the VID volts & multiplier to 8..finally cpu-z now continuously shows 1.3 Ghz at 6.5 multiplier even wei scores for RAM & CPU have gone slightly up..temp's have increased a bit to 44 from 41 deg C..just as i was typing the core speed finally increased upto 1.5 ghz at 8 multiplier..have alook at the snaps & WEI soared even beter at CPU cps at 4.4 & RAM at 4.9...now i need to know why is this happening ..you may be right bout the bios being old..but lets keep trying ..let me get the battery & adapter straight first & we'll see..btw the chipset is PM965 (refer the snapshot):roll:
    Went upto 12.5 multiplier ,2.5 GHZ at throttlestop & the WEI soared even better cpu & ram becomes 6.0,at 92% cpu loading the temp's reached a maximum of 54-55 deg C,fans kicked at >46 C..refer snaps..
     

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  23. Pehla

    Pehla

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    im sry but i still think its socket issue here is socket for t9300 (Sockets Supported BGA479, PGA478)
    and here is for t5250 (Sockets Supported PPGA478) its even made in diferent litography..
    t5250 is 65nm and t9300 45nm..
    maybe with some bios update it could work.. but i dont think he is going to have updated bios..
     
  24. bencrutz

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    i dont think the issue is socket related.
    have had upgraded one of this to T8XXX (can't recall, laptop is no longer in my possession)
    while it's not a T9XXX gen, but i believe they are the very same silicon, same lithography ;)

    @ OP: report back if you had replace the adapter and battery :)
     
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  25. niraz_1980

    niraz_1980

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    Upgraded the CPU from core 2 duo T5250 to T9300 but the cpuZ & WEI scores went down

    Just ordered the Dell original Slim AC Power Adapter 90 W over ebay.in & still searching for 85Wh,7200 mAh FK890,Inspiron 1520 battery..over ebay.
    Most probably the adapter thing would do the trick..or else have locked onto a Intel core2Duo T7800,2.6 GHz,800 FSB,merom architecture cpu over the ebay.
    Problem is that i can't re-flash the BIOS till i have the battery charged & my battery is well dead since 2008( I actually had my m/c ,24x7 on DL\UL so the battery was always on power & donno when it died )..coz maybe after multiple hardware changes, simultaneously(I've upgraded the CPU,RAM increased to 4GB matched pair CL5,upgrded to discrete 256 MB nVidia 8600 M GT video card), re-flashing may be necessary even though its 2008 ver.only & i have the latest BIOS too..:confused:
     

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