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UPS recommendations

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by imperialreign, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    Well, the surge protector I had been using for ages finally fired last night . . . took the wall outlet with it :p

    So - time to invest into a quality UPS . . . something I've been meaning to do for a while.

    Currently looking at this model: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842570001

    Thoughts, suggestions, recommendations? My cap is $900 (not including shipping costs), and prefer at least 1200W, 1500+ VA, at least 6 outlets, and all the other good features one would typically look for in a quality UPS.
     
  2. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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  3. Aevum

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    i tend to go with APC, theres stuff you dont play with...
     
  4. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    Well, TBH, I'm not too keen on the UPS brands - I've spent some time today doing some research and what not . . . my thinking (at least concerning the GE model) was that GE is fairly solid when it comes to electronics . . .

    AsRock - yeah, I had glanced over those earlier . . . the first link might be in the right ballpark, but the second one is under-rated for the load that will be running through it . . . between my rig, monitor, old-school stereo and amplifier, printer/scanner, desk lamp, and a few other "necessities."

    One aspect I've noticed that has steered me away from some models are the rated running times - considering some of the work I do, I'd prefer as much time as possible on battery power, and the higher the units rating, the less it'll be under max load . . .
     
  5. zithe

    zithe

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    It seems your UPS wanted to end the year with a bang. :p

    So it did.
     
  6. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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    For the second link i was thinking more of having 2 and having the load split if that's possible that is. More plugs too :p.

    A friend of mine has known a UPS go pop and he said it was not pretty but they cover ya ass when shit does happen. He said they were totally fried including what was connected to them. Which makes me think having 2 ( if possible ) than 2 high ones is a better idea.

    Might want to check in to battery replacements too just to see how much they are.
     
  7. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Computer and monitor are the only of those that should be plugged into the battery. Stereo, amplifier, printer/scanner, lamp, and everything else not critical to the operation of the computer should go into the "surge" only outlets (or a completely separate surge suppressor all together).


    I am running 3 CyberPower units here and they have all been working great (700w and up). They get about 15 minutes of runtime but they are ordered to power off after 2 or 3 minutes on battery power in order to conserve their charge should I turn them on and the power goes out again.
     
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  8. westom

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    That means it provided no surge protection AND was one of the most dangerous items in the house. Any surge protector that fails (ie so that the light indicates failure) was woefully undersized. Any protector that also takes out a wall receptacle is telling you how dangerous that protector always was.

    View scary pictures of what most every fire department has seen:
    http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
    http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
    http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
    http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
    http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
    http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm
    http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339

    Some of those events are structure fires. One is a fire marshal describing why those fires exist - and why you also put you and the family at risk.

    Now view joules for that UPS. See that even smaller number? A power strip protector with more joules was also near zero protection. Now you will have better protection with even tinier joules?

    Did you read manufacturer specification numbers? Or just assume the myth that a majority believe?

    You had a potential house fire because the protector did what those specs say it will do. No protector must fail that way. In fact, MOV manufacturers state quite bluntly in datasheets that those parts must only degrade - not fail as you witnessed.

    Please learn from your experience. Please learn why plug-in protectors so desperately need to be protected by an earthed 'whole house' protector. Why would you buy another scam after witnessing the human safety threat created by a woefully undersized protector? Please learn why responsible and high reliability facilities never waste money on those plug-in protectors. Please learn from your near disaster.
     
  9. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    Well - keeping in mind that the surge protector I was using was near 20 years old, and was never initially designed for the type of modern hardware we use . . . I'd say it had finally degraded so much that it had no other choice but to fail. I've even known that an overloaded surge protector is just as dangerous as not using one, even the wall outlet "multiplier" hookups are a poor excuse. The only thing a surge protector is designed to handle is an overload in the circuit - a "backup" breaker, if-you-will - typically caused by outside sources (such as blown transformer, brown/black-out, lighting strike, etc.). But, they're much like a bicycle or motorcycle helmet - once tripped, they should no longer be trusted.


    All electronics degrade over time, this is basic knowledge that I've known for the last 20 years, as I've grown up around this type of work. Sure, I know full well it was my fault that I was still using such an ancient unit, and that I had never gotten around to purchasing a reliable, quality UPS as I had intended for the last few years. A UPS eliminates nearly all the problems associated with over-loaded surge protectors, so long as you pick the correct unit for your workload . . . they act as a surge protector (for those devices plugged into those circuits), and filter out voltage spikes and other errata from the power lines caused by brown/black-outs, local transformer issues, neighborhood circuit overloading, etc. . . . all phenomena that cause pre-mature failure and degradation of electronic components and devices.

    The device in question did not present an issue until my rig was turned off - in which case, there was too much current moving through the unit, and something gave. When I said it took out the wall outlet, I had meant that there was a distinct blackness around the terminals - no melted terminals or connections, no charring of the wall itself or the outlet surround, no distinct marks of electrical arching on the female terminals or male terminals of the plug. Any outlet or connection that has become black is worthless and unreliable in my book, and will be replaced - even if there is no apparent physical damage to the outlet, terminals or the surround.
     
  10. westom

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    Protectors do not degrade that way. MOVs degrade by changing voltage - typically by 10%. Even a degraded protector must not fail catastrophically. Any protector - new or degraded after 20 years - that fails catastrophically was undersized. That failure mode is never acceptable.

    Surge protectors are designed to earth direct lightning strikes - and remain functional. Unfortunately, protectors designed only to maximize profits cannot and do not do that. The only protector (installed for direct lightning strikes or even transformer primary shorted to your low voltage 120) that provides that protection is properly earth. Starts at about 50,000 amps. And costs about $1 per protected appliance. Such protectors do not have names such as APC, Tripplite, Belkin, or Monster. Only more responsible companies provide them such as General Electric, Siemens, Intermatic, Leviton, and Square D. The Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes for less than $50.

    A friend suffered 33,000 volts shorted to his neighborhood service. At least 100 electric meters were blown up to 30 feet from buildings. Many had those grossly undersized and not earthed plug-in protectors. Therefore many lost appliances and protectors. My friend knows someone who actually learned this stuff. Since he had a properly earthed 'whole house' protector, then only his utility electric meter was destroyed.

    UPS does not provide the protection that popular myths claim. For example, the appliance connected directly to AC mains when that UPS is not in battery backup mode. Nothing but a relay to provide protection. When in battery backup mode, the typical UPS can output, for example, two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. Why is this ideal electricity? Because all electronics are so robust.

    Whereas the UPS output is ideal for electronics, it can also be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. Where is its surge protection? Does not exist. Don't take my word for it. View its manufacturer numeric specs. Where does it claim protection - in numbers - from each type of surge? It does not.

    Well it does protect from a type of surge that is not typically destructive. That near zero joules is enough to claim "surge protection" in big letters in its sales brochure. Then many others will claim that UPS provides 100% protection.

    The effective protection is that 'whole house' protector. That UPS is for temporary power during a blackout - time to save unsaved data. Or maintain data (ie a TV show) on your TV. That UPS only provides ineffective surge protection. In fact, power strip protectors have better protection numbers than UPSes.

    What often acts as a surge protector? Some appliance. Surges seek earth ground. By finding earth destructively via one appliance, then that appliance may protect other appliances, the UPS, and power strip protectors. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either you 'divert' that energy harmlessly to earth. Or that energy is inside the building hunting for earth destructively via some appliance - with or without a plug-in protectors or UPS.

    Bottom line - a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. What provides protection? Not any protectors or UPS. Protection is where energy is harmlessly dissipated - earth. The effective protector must always make that short connection to single point earth ground.

    Nothing new. This is the same technology well proven for the past 100 years. It is what every telco uses everywhere in the world so that your town does not lose phone service for four days. That routine and that well proven. Protection has always been about where energy dissipates.
     
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  11. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    As I had mentioned in my last post - a UPS acts as a surge protector for devices attached to the protected circuits . . .

    . . . and as you expanded upon - by literally sacrificing itself. If a UPS was to take the brunt of an over-voltage or "surge" situation, the unit would literally have it's ass handed back to itself (and if you're lucky, not have any other device go down with it). I had never stated that a UPS offers better surge protection than a dedicated unit, only that (in a modest fashion) it performs nearly the same way . . . nor had I contested that fact that dedicated surge protectors offer nearly ten-fold better surge protection than a UPS can. A UPS' only major points are available backup power (in the even of power outtages), and that they provide a steady output current to attached devices. They can be thought (more-or-less) as a combination surge protector/voltage regulator/backup device.

    I had never said, either, that I hadn't intended on purchasing a quality surge protector, either . . . c'mon, I'm no where near dumb enough to shell out hundreds of dollars on a quality UPS and not give any thought to what will protect that investment. It would be simply ludicrous to do something like that.

    IMO, the necessitating benefit of a UPS is it's steady output . . . something you can only really get with a quality unit . . . but relying entirelly on a UPS for complete protection is simply inane.
     
  12. Steevo

    Steevo

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  13. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048

    I've got that model Cyberpower. No UPS is going to give you good runtimes, they are designed to give you time to save your work and shut the machine down properly, not actually continue to use the computer.

    Everything unnecessary should be plugged into the surge side, not the battery side. The only thing that should be on the battery side is the computer and the monitor. The runtime on the unit I listed above is about 15 minutes with just my main rig and monitor.

    Of course you could always buy two of the cheaper models and run the computer/monitor off one and everything else off the other...
     
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  14. westom

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    You are assuming the protector works by absorbing energy. Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. How does a few hundred joules blunt a surge that is hundred of thousands of joules? It does not.

    Read that UPS spec numbers. A few hundred joules is made completely irrelevant by protection already inside the stereo. Protection that must exist to also meet safety codes and international standards for 'transients without damage'. A surge woefully too small to harm that stereo easily destroyed a grossly undersized protector circuit. Then assumed, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my stereo". Reality. With or without the protector, that stereo would not be damaged. A surge too small to harm a stereo also destroyed a grossly undersized protector. That is how the manufacturer gets myths to promote his product.

    Furthermore - any protector that fails that way violates what every MOV manufacturer demands in his datasheets. An MOV that fails catastrophically exceeds what any MOV manufacturer intended his product to do.

    Twice over - your sacrificial protector does not provide effective protection. But undersizing also creates another problem that most every fire department has seen. These scary pictures are just another problem with protectors that are designed as profit centers - do not even claim to provide that protection:
    http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
    http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
    http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
    http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
    http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
    http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm
    http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339

    Another reason for installing a 'whole house' protector? Plug-in protectors and UPSes need protection provided by one earthed 'whole house' protector.

    Define quality protector. Monster Cable sells for $150. Therefore it is quality? Hardly. It is the same circuit also selling for $7 in a grocery store. With fancy paint and a higher price so that many wish it is quality. Quality protector always has that short connection to single point earth ground. Often costs tens or 100 times less money per protected appliance.

    Those scary pictures should have your attention. Many have the same protector circuit also sold for $150 by Monster.

    UPS has only one function - to provide 'dirty' and temporary power during a blackout. So cheap that the replacement battery often costs almost as much as a new unit. So cheaply made that battery life expectancy is not much beyond 3 years. And near zero surge protection.
     
  15. Steevo

    Steevo

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    The best is just good wiring and a clean ground. Next is a sacrificial circuts like are used in the lightning protection for my base station antennas.


    If the resistance between two fillaments is lower for a high energy than the electrical circut that is being powered the energy chooses the lower resistance to ground. As long as the common 120V does not have the potential to jump the gap, or complete the same circut it. It becomes a effective lightning, or surge suppressor.


    A computer wiring is a bit different than thick copper coils in a transformer. .5 more volts to a CPU can kill it.
     
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  16. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    Dude . . . WTF kinda crusade are you on?

    I mean, seriously . . . how many times are you going to repeat yourself without reading the jist of my posts?

    If you failed to grasp the idea that I'm not going to be relying on one sole form of protection, then perhaps you might want to chill for a second with the pushy "scare tactics" . . . go back, re-read my posts, let it sink in for a bit, and see what it comes to from there . . .

    Or do you want me to get the lynch-mob, pitchforks and torches lit up for you?
     
  17. westom

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    Dude, when are you going to stop recommending inferior or ineffective (but highly profitable) protection to others. Every protection layer is defined only by the one thing that provides protection - single point earth ground. None of your 'magic box' solutions do what you are preaching. Why are you complaining when your claims are not even made by those manufacturers? An effective protector connect short to protection. Or that protector may earth surges through adjacent appliances.

    Why are you getting emotional. Apparently you do not have facts to defend those myths. Protection for an entire house is earthing that meets and exceeds post 1990 National Electical code. And a 'whole house' protector connected short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to that earthing. That is a complete secondary protection system so that even direct lightning strikes do not damage anything - even the protector. Dude - that is reality.

    Moving on: Above is the secondary protection system. Each protection layer is defined by the one and only 'always required' component - earth ground. The primary protection system should also be inspected because - and again - a protector is only as effective as its earth ground:
    http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

    That UPS does not act as surge protection for appliances connected to it. A myth promoted by a majority only because others have told them to believe it. UPS's joules are near zero. It connects appliances directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode - to provide the cleanest power. And it can generate surges (in battery backup mode) that may be harmful to power strip protectors. What kind of protection is that? Not what you have posted. Read its numeric specifications. Dude, you are posting claims that a typical UPS manufacturer will not make. The informed homeownuer upgrades building earthing - and installs one 'whole house' protector. The suprerior solution costs about $1 per protected appliance. It not a profit center advocated by myths.
     
  18. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    You're talking to someone who lives in a house that's been struck by lightning 4 times within the last 10 years alone . . . the house and all circuits within are fully protected from such massive external spikes.

    Again, go back and re-read my posts . . . you obviously haven't. I never said that the UPS would be the only protection for the devices attached to it.

    As well, I never stated, either, that a UPS functions as a better surge protector than a dedicated protection strip.

    What I did state is that a UPS acts as a "filter" for the filth in the line - something that a surge protector does not do.

    You must realize that we're dealing with AC voltage - not DC. AC operates on a "push & pull" method, meaning that electricity alternates from power to ground and back again . . . whereas with DC it flows from power to ground. The push/pull effect can generate small spikes and dips in current, which will typically pass through any surge protector . . . many times these small voltage spikes come from your home's external power source (the neighborhood transformers, etc.), but they can also come from within. Whenever a powerful appliance is turned off (i.e. washer, dryer, stove, TV, microwave, etc.), it can create a "backlash" or "spike" of current that can afflict many other devices attached to that circuit . . . these small spikes are extremelly damaging to appliances, and even more-so to the PC. Those spikes can be quickly translated through the PSU to your hardware.

    The home-ground system, lightning arrestor, or any other "service entrance" form of protection DO NOT provide for internal circuit protection from appliance induced spikes . . . they are designed to block massive surges from your home's external source of power.

    As well, circuit surge protectors ARE NOT designed to filter these small changes in input current - they're only designed to stop and ground massive spikes.

    Then there's interference induced into a line from nearby appliances, too - EMI/RFI can be deadly things to electronics, and can makes these small spikes and drops in current much worse . . . internally induced noise is yet some another aspect that home-ground and surge protectors do not protect from.

    A UPS, though, is designed to filter these small changes in current, as well as line noise, and provide a steady form of current to whatever appliances are attached to it.

    Anyone who relies solely on a UPS for protection of their devices needs some schooling - if you had actually read my posts, you'd find that I never said otherwise. I fully intend to install a reliable and solid-quality surge protector into the circuit before the UPS. It would be simply effin' retarded to shell out hundreds of dollars for the right UPS, only to leave it to the whim and fancy of the wall outlet.

    Your method and advice are great for protection from externally induced surges and should be taken note of by those who do not have such systems - especially if one's home or neighborhood transformer (or another home on the neighborhood grid) has never been struck by lightning . . . but, again, those devices will not protect from issues that arise from internally within the home.
     
  19. Easy Rhino

    Easy Rhino Linux Advocate

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    this is the one i have

    http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=23

    it is excellent and handles 2 quad core rigs folding multiple gpus fulltime with a 22" and 24" lcd monitor attached. plenty of power to spare and on full load with great software to adjust how responsive you want it to be to power fluctuations.

    cost me about $200
     
  20. westom

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    To demonstrate knowledge, define the electrical path that each surge took. If you have damage, then you listed that damage including the incoming and outgoing surge path. Otherwise, you have observations not supported by the underlying science - junk science conclusions. Amazing how many know a surge (high voltage) existed only because a blackout (low voltage) occurred. The word credibility applies.

    Routine is for a plug-in protector to earth a surge destructively through any adjacent appliance. A TV’s protector earthed a surge through a portable phone base station in another outlet in the same room. Learned basic circuits to know that portable phone is electrically connected to the same power strip that a TV connected to. Please learn some basic electrical concepts which also explains why that TV’s power strip earthed a surge through a nearby phone base station.

    Both paragraphs are facts learned before you can tell us anything about four strikes. Based upon details posted, you have only speculated that strikes existed. And then automatically assumed protectors that do not claim that protection, instead and miraculously provided that protection. How did that protector do what even its manufacturer will not claim? A problem we engineers so often must confront - bluntly. Experts who know without first learning.

    That UPS acts as a filter? Absolute nonsense. You would have known that from facts and numbers already posted. Why did you ignore technology to again post an outright myth? Learn what a UPS does. It connects an appliance directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. How does a relay become a filter? Please. Every question in those post not answered only further confirms too much ‘knowledge without first learning’. How does that relay become a fitler?

    More questions. Where are numbers that claim any filtering? I install the same filter by purchasing some two cent capacitors at Radio Shack for their inflated 70 cents. What kind of filtering is that? Same filter the your UPS does. But again, you have claimed filtering without also posting the numbers. So again, where is this filter in that UPS? A sales brochure said "Filter" and forgot to include the phrase "Near Zero"? Since it had no numbers, then you “know” that filtering stops spikes and surges?

    How does that filter stop what three miles of sky could not? Credibility says you have an answer. Especially when you read those manufacturer spec sheets to know before posting.

    Existing filter required in every appliance (including the microwave, TV, etc) by FCC regulations are superior to what that UPS does. Where are you numbers to dispute this? Unfortunately your numbers will only confirm this paragraph. Massive filtering already exists in appliances. But somehow s UPS does filtering? Well, yes. The only filtering is required for its control circuits – while all other appliances are connected directly to AC mains. Another example of 'knowledge without first learning'.

    Those internal transients are damaging to appliances? Another myth so insulting because the deception is obvious. AND was exposed in earlier posts - with numbers. Reposting those myths only degrades your credibility. Did you not grasp layman’s reasons why those spikes do not exist?

    Or maybe you just forgot what was posted. If spikes exist, then you are replacing dimmer switches and GFCIs every day. Are you? Please, learn this basic knowledge before posting. Or return to learn from an earlier post. Please stop embarrassing me with those junk science myths. Please learn simple electrical concepts before posting "these small spikes are extremelly damaging to appliances, and even more-so to the PC. " Obviously that is not true – can only exist when someone entertain hype and fear – and does not learn the numbers.

    What are small spikes? Tens of volts. What is the output from a UPS when in battery backup mode? Two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. If appliances are so destructive, then a UPS destroys everything. Please learn reality before posting. How can anyone attribute credibility to your posts after you ignore technical facts; repost "small spikes are extremelly damaging"; promote a virtually zero filter inside a UPS as miraculous.

    So how much does it cost to replace a dimmer switch and bathroom GFCI every hour? Reality - those interior destructive spikes are classic urban myth - never existed - easily promoted so that fear replaces logic.

    Please read and comprehend technical facts to protect your credibility. Amazing how those ten volt spikes cause damage when a 270 volt spike from a UPS does not. All appliances - especially computers - already contain protection that make those mythical spikes only further irrelevant.
     
  21. Steevo

    Steevo

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    http://www.wvlightning.com/protection.shtml


    Lightning will choose the path of least resistance, as long as that is the external ground rod, water pipe, or some other form of ground it will go to that. That is why all the UPS's and surge protectors have a ground fault light. It lets you know that the path to ground through your device is less resistive than the path to earth ground.

    [​IMG]

    I forgot to mention that a good test of your groudn rod is to use a hot 120V source and a 20 amp fuse, with the ground wire disconnected hook the 20 amp fuse to power and touchthe other end of it to the rod. If it pops the fuse it is OK, if not then there is too much grounding resistance and you must add another grounding rod, or replace a older eroded one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
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  22. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    Have you ever been in a home when it's been struck by lightning?

    If you have, then you obviously know what the hell just happened, and not a simply "blackout."

    It's a blinding flash of light, followed near instantly by a massive "boom" that will shake the whole house . . . and less than a second after that everything goes off (circuit breakers tripping) . . . and close on the heels of that phenomena, there's a very distinct taste and smell of ozone in the air (or static electricity, if you want to call it that).

    Once you've been in a home that's been struck, there's no mistaking it. It's not some simple loss of power. It's a shaking moment that will not just fade from memory.



    So, now you're a full blown expert, eh? An engineer?

    Something I've learned from years in the field is that engineers are great with "theory" and design but fail miserably when it comes to actual field experience.

    Relay? Or condenser? There are countless forms of filtering components that are added into circuits - things from simple capacitors that filter small voltage fluctuations, to ground transient filters designed to eliminate noise on the ground channel.

    But, obviously, an expert such as yourself knows all about eletrical filters, right?


    Again - I step back to my earlier statements that a UPS is not, nor should be, the primary form of protection for an appliance.

    I'ts filtering is in removing the "dirt" from the input current - not filtering massive issues. Again, a surge protector is best designed for that . . . I never said it wasn't, and I never said that a UPS is designed to completely replace a surge protector.

    You've continued to take my posts far out of context, simply to twist what I'm saying in support of your argument, without offering much in the way of helpful information yourself. All I've seen are some links to pages that equate literally to "scare tactics," with no further linking to other proof to back up your claims.


    You seem to forget that a UPS is designed for PC systems - not appliances. Although appliances can be plugged into one, there's not much point.

    A PSU has little to no filtering of incoming current - it's been a notorious issue amoungst overclockers of small surges in the incoming current being passed along to the hardware . . . it can make a stable rig unstable, and risk unnecessarily damaging components.

    But, I guess your knowledge of appliances is just that, and does not apply to PC hardware, correct?

    I'm embarassing you? Or are you just being embarassed as the conversation leads further out of your realm?

    I'm sorry, but I can't further explain the concept of push/pull over-voltage . . . perhaps you might know the concept as backfeeding.


    Did I ever mention anything about a UPS' output when in backup mode? Nope.

    Do you keep jumping to this arguement thinking that a UPS is constantly running in backup? Yerp.

    TBH, I don't give a total rat's ass what the output is in backup mode - when that phase has come full round, the rig needs to be properly shut down . . . not weather it out. The use of a UPS after the use of surge protection devices is to allow for the system to be shut down properly. Instantly cutting power to a rig can be dangerous and damaging to the highly sensitive hardware . . . if you don't grasp that concept, you might want to quite picking fights and start researching PC components.


    So, I take it then that you've sat probing a wall outlet all day with a sensitive DVOM?

    Or are the thousands of claims from other certified professionals wrong, too?


    Well - if you want to keep stouting technical facts, why don't you go ahead and dig them up?

    You're whole presence in this thread has been nothing but trolling, IMHO. You continue to overlook what I post, and fail to comprehend what I post . . . then proceede to twist my words around, and argue points that are contradictory to my statements. All the while posting links to scare tactics, then demanding I post up factual numbers, yet you don't want to backup your "technical" information yourself . . . all the while claiming that I don't grasp basic concepts, when it seems that you don't grasp them either.

    Good day to you, sir, but I tire of this tepid BS. :toast:
     
  23. Easy Rhino

    Easy Rhino Linux Advocate

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    i don't want to be a mod dick but if this convo doesnt get back to good UPS suggestions then it will have to be closed...
     
  24. westom

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    Yes. And that is not relevant. Amazing how you know 'feelings' can replace knowledge.

    Have you measured lightning? Do you have any numbers? No. Which is why your posts mock rather than provide reality or contribute anything useful. Near zero knowledge corresponds to the near zero specifications you also posted.

    You had protector failure and a blackened outlet because that was ineffective protection. It did exactly what the specs said. No effective protector fails that way. None. We earth a 'whole house' protector so that even direct lightning strikes blacken nothing. So effective that nobody even knew the surge existed. So effective and so inexpensive that your telco installs one on everyone's phone line - for free. But that means you might learn what has existed for generations.

    UPS obviously has virtually no filtering. It does not claim to remove 'dirt'. Does not even make that claims in specs. The typical UPS in battery backup mode outputs some of the 'dirtiest' electricity. You would know this if you learned facts rather than how to disparage others.

    All PCs are required to have significant filtering. Even you could learn by that filter is required by FCC regulations. If you had learned anything - other than posting insults - then you could have read that FCC requirement on every power label. But you know that filter does not exist. Furthermore, trivial transients (ie noise) do not damage any appliance. Why does the up to 270 volt from a UPS in battery backup mode not harm electronics? Electronics are so much more robust - filtering and other reasons. You might learn these numbers before posting long winded myths.

    This is no longer about surge protection. Steevo provided much information you never learned. You don't want to discuss technical facts. This is about the integrity of those who recommend a scam. Who resort to insulting others when basic technical reality was not learned.

    Others should learn from imperialreign's near fire. That UPS does near zero filtering. Any serious filtering already exists in electronics - especially computers. Do not waste money on devices that cannot provide protection. That do not claim that protection in manufacturer specs. That do not make the always required short connection to earth. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either harmlessly dissipated in earth. Or destructively inside the building - as imperialreign's damage demonstrates.
     
  25. westom

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    There is no plug-in UPS solution for what the OP wants. The only type of UPS that can solve his problem is a building wide solution located at the service entrance. That answer is posted repeatedly.

    But what solves the OP's problem? Earthing a 'whole house' proetctor. Clearly the superior solution that also costs tens or 100 times less money.

    Reality does not change only because one does not like what the numbers and 100 years of well proven science says.
     

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