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Utilizing your Processor

Discussion in 'World Community Grid (WCG)' started by Mindweaver, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

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    Thanks for the pics... to bad they are not pop ups..lol j/k Thank you for your interest in the thread. You are correct that is not english... :D
    Crunching for Team TPU
  2. mrsemi

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    I'm not a tecchnie at all, but for those who say this doesn't work in theory... I wonder if when the system decides to hang on to a task and not send it in for more work if this doesn't make it more effective.

    If you normally have 4 cores / threads and you turn it into 8, while one's waiting to upload you still have 7 going. Not sure if that makes sense.
  3. Jizzler

    Jizzler

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    Unlike FAH which has a download -> process -> upload -> repeat cycle, finished units are held by the manager and another unit starts nearly instantly.
  4. mike047 New Member

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    You can change this to report instantly in the config.xml.

    As to the use of the VT, BOINC has been used for some time now and if it was a benefit...others would have pimped it previously. I believe somewhere that I read in threads[BOINC forum?? I'm old and don't remember] that it was considered counter productive. This obviously doesn't include the i7 as it is new and works with the HT.

    I'm sure someone will take exception to my comment but this is as I remember it.
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  5. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    What directory is this in? It isn't in Program Files\BOINC...
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  6. mike047 New Member

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    I will have to search for it. Until recently, I used Ubuntu "only":D and it is easier to work with and find.

    Windows can also be done, I will have to find it.
    [hr]

    It is in ;
    C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\BOINC

    You will have to create a file "cc_config.xml" and then put this in it;

    <cc_config>
    <options>
    <report_results_immediately>1</report_results_immediately>
    </options>
    </cc_config>

    Save it and the go to your Boinc manager under the "advanced" tab click "read config file"

    Here is more info;
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3831053&postcount=3
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
  7. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

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    Thanks Mike! for your knowledge on this matter.

    Yesturday I turned off VM and set WCG to 100% from 95%. Today my result are way down.. not the results I wanted to see.. I was hoping to see a small decrease around 10% in results returned from this PC, but it has almost half the out put. I waited for the work finished, and sent on my VM before shutting it down... VM has been off for over 16 hours.. I'll check the rest of my machines results. Happy Crunching! Thanks once again for everyone interest!
    Crunching for Team TPU
  8. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Geez, you'd think it just be an option somewhere. XD

    I enabled it and there was 3 three 100% units complete. Hopefully that will be zero from here on. :D
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  9. Sonido

    Sonido New Member

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    I knew I liked Ford for a reason; his logic is sound. While the OP makes sense in what he's trying to explain, Ford makes valid points. You are just making it a dual-single core machine (weird way to put it), while retaining the dual-core function of the original instance of WCG. Hmmm...

    Where core 1 is shown to be split between the two, if you add up the numbers, would it add up to what a regular 100% utilization of the original instance would be?
  10. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

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    Yea Ford's a good guy, and his logic is sound. I've enjoyed the quid pro quo.
    Ford's statement was a misunderstanding of my previous statement. Sorry, I didn't explain this better Ford. I was simply stating that all the results prior to the 25th where just the physical pc's results. Those results would need to be divided by 2 since it is a dual core processor. So, from the 25th and everything forward were from the physical, and VM environment. You will want to divide by 2 as well. To compare against the Virtual single core output (Task Manager only shows one core for the Virtual PC not 2 for a dual core processor). You can compare the two sets of numbers before, and after with out dividing to calculate your overhead.

    I think I see where Ford is misunderstanding my Physical results, and my VM results that I've listed. At WCG your Virtual PC/Server shows up as it's on device, and the physical pc as it's on device . For example if you go to your "Device Manager" at WCG you will see the Virtual-pc as if it were a Physical pc with its on results (See Table below). While using your Virtual pc you can share folders with your physical pc as if they were two computers on the same network.

    You can even set your physical pc up as a pdc (primary domain controller) and add your Virtual PC to your domain. It's actually great stuff! Really good for testing. :toast:

    Column 1
    0 Date Installed
    1 Agent type Device Name Selected Profile &Registered
    2 Boinc E8400-pc Default 5/8/2009
    3 Boinc E8400-VM Default 6/25/2009
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
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  11. Papahyooie

    Papahyooie

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    Im gonna chime in here... and I guess I tend to side with Ford on things, but i promise im not teamed up with him lol.

    Ok... your processor is dual core. So lets boil things down to the simplest it can be. WCG on 1 core = 1. WCG on second core = 1. Processor time dedicated to running VM = 1.

    1+1+1=3. But you can only run 2 threads. So we have 1 thread on one core, and 2 threads running on the second core. (one of the threads is virtual obviously, because its in a VM). The second core can only run at 100% maximum (duh). So the second core is running virtual machine AND wcg. HOW can this be a good thing for wcg?

    Another way to look at it: in a normal scenerio, youre only running one instance of your OS. So thats OS+wcg+wcg. With a VM youre running OS+OS+wcg+wcg. Thats more work to be done, which has to be spread out over the processor, meaning less time for wcg.

    Even discounting the OS:

    1 core= 100% wcg
    2nd core = processor time divided by wcg and VM (50/50, 60/40, whatever)

    as opposed to NOT running vmware when

    1core = 100%wcg
    2nd core = 100% wcg.

    In your vmware scenerio, wcg going to lose out on processor time because of the overhead needed to run vm. Same thing with the work units. You may be able to run more work, but each work unit gets less processor time. As for HT, thats a totally different beast altogether. This has nothing to do with HT. Hypothetically replace your vmware/wcg with a game. If you play a game while crunching, the crunching will suffer, as will the game (you may not notice it due to process scheduling and priority if you have a fast processor, but its still there, and your crunching numbers will show it.) Its an interesting idea, but fundamentally flawed. As for your numbers, what Ford is saying is that they are all over the place. They are in no way conclusive, because they arent anywhere near consistant. If you want to do an experiment, do it right, and run the thing 24/7 for a week without the vm, then for a week with the vm, and make sure it isnt used otherwise, because irregular use (such as gaming, surfing, etc) will affect the numbers. The only way this experiment can be done is on a dedicated cruncher. Maybe I will perform this experiment on my own machine once I get it up. Id like to see what the numbers reveal, and I'd be willing to put money on it that it will be a detriment.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  12. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

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    Thanks for your time.

    I understand the overhead... The core cycles shared with physical and VM (1 core = 100%, other core = 50/50).... Since no one can look past that fact, and I never said anyone was wrong with that statement... What I'm trying to do is test the VT technology... I don't want to hear people tell me that it doesn't make your processor faster and it doesn't represent a core (Look past that).. I know this.. and about the HT vs VT.. all i stated was that they both give you the abiltiy to run extra WU's... I understand HT is an extra pipe to the core, not an instruction set... On a side note.. I hope I get my new Q9550 today...
    Crunching for Team TPU
  13. Papahyooie

    Papahyooie

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    ...then what exactly are you trying to accomplish? You wont get any more points or work out of wcg from doing this... which is what you stated in the OP. Now you say thats not it and youre just testing out VT.
  14. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

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    I'm trying to find out if it will utilize the processor more efficiently. I stated in my OP that I'm trying to achieve more results... I was trying to explain in my last post... That I know the physical processor is still doing all the work..

    Remember, the name of the thread is Utilizing your Processor.. Not "How to Utilize your processor".. I'm not saying that this will do it... but I was curious ,and liked the results, and wanted to share them with my teammates...
    Crunching for Team TPU
  15. Papahyooie

    Papahyooie

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    Your results are all over the map though... totally inconclusive. I guess if you like them then whatever floats your boat, but your results dont show anything (at least from what youve posted.) A real experiment needs to be done for real results. Like I said though, whatever you think is your business.

    Regardless, Ford and my own's point is: No, it wont utilize the processor more efficiently, and no, it wont return more results. I fail to see what, past that, youre trying to accomplish.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2009
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  16. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

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    Thanks I'm working on better results.. just takes time.. I'm not doing this for myself.. I've got 36 rigs crunching strong. I just want to help others. Thanks for your time. :respect:
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  17. dustyshiv

    dustyshiv

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    Guys,

    This trick worked amazing in systems runnin vista. But with systems runnin XP, there was no Bionic folder in C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data
    So I put this xml file in Bionic folder in C:\Program Files.
    When I did the read config file, nothin happened. Is there something I missed??
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  18. mike047 New Member

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    What client are you using?? 6.6.20??
  19. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    XP x64:
    C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\BOINC\cc_config.xml

    Current contents (after making the change):
    Code:
    <cc_config>
        <log_flags>
        </log_flags>
        <options>
            <client_version_check_url>http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/download.php?xml=1</client_version_check_url>
            <client_download_url>http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/download.php</client_download_url>
            <network_test_url>http://www.ibm.com/</network_test_url>
            <start_delay>120</start_delay>
    		<report_results_immediately>1</report_results_immediately>
        </options>
    </cc_config>
    Currently running version:
    World Community Grid - BOINC Manager
    Version: 6.2.28
    Copyright: (C) 2003-2008 University of California, Berkeley. All rights reserved.



    My server automatically uploads them without changing anything...

    Server 2003 x64:
    <folder does not exist>

    Currently running version:
    BOINC Manager
    Version: 6.1.0
    Copyright: (C) 2003-2007 University of California, Berkeley. All rights reserved.
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  20. dustyshiv

    dustyshiv

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    Mike,

    Its 6.2.28

    Further my XP systems are all 32-bit!!
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  21. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Punch the path into My Computer and see if it opens it:

    C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\BOINC\cc_config.xml


    It should be the same on all XP/Server 2003 machines and version 6.2 of the client.
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  22. mike047 New Member

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    dustyshiv says thanks.
  23. dustyshiv

    dustyshiv

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    FordGT,

    I did paste this location in the run box and whola..it did open up. About to replace the xml file!!

    Thnx,
    Regards,
    Shiv
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  24. dhoshaw

    dhoshaw

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    Thanks guys, that's great info!

    It has been bugging me for a while; I tried playing with the "Connect about every" and "Additional work buffer" prefs but it didn't do the job. I configured by XP and Server 2003 machines this morning and will do my Vista and Win 7 machines tonight.
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  25. dhoshaw

    dhoshaw

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    For Windows 7, I found the file in c:\ProgramData\BOINC
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