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Video Streamers and Content Providers of TPU *UNITE*

Discussion in 'techPowerUp! Club Forum' started by Binge, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    Do you record hours of footage?
    Maybe your thang is perhaps a bit of video blogging?
    Happen to want something a little extra out of your broadcasts/productions?
    You fit in here!

    Overview:

    My goal in creating this club is to allow anyone and everyone on TPU to courteously provide each other with helpful information for producing forms of digital content live and static. Please share your horror stories/success with other members of our forum, and plug your own broadcasts as well as others broadcasts whom you follow.


    How To Join:

    You don't! Just post. Everyone can be a contributor and that is part of the open mindset of this thread. Do you have some secret sauce to your content which you don't want to share? That's fine but if someone wants to share their secret sauce there's no need to be part of a roster to do so. To name yourself as a content provider on TPU I've provided a small template at the bottom of this post. Make a post here in this thread and update it. Create a link to that post and place it in your signature to show your pride in what you do.


    What ground is covered here?

    Keep it SFW just like TPU enforces and there should be no issue. I will mostly be contributing streaming video software and solutions. I've been an active part of a small streaming community, and the interest I took has me providing assistance to these people as well as making a bit of content myself. Being a streamer is not the only way to provide content. If a user has a channel with videos they put work into and want to share with the world then do it. Share the software you use, or techniques if you believe we are worthy :respect:


    EXAMPLE TEMPLATE (take liberties with your own profile... itz urz d00d)

    Content I provide: Regular video game streams w/commentary (http://www.twitch.tv/Slumbering)

    Content I frequently consume:
    1. My brother's stream, http://www.twitch.tv/Piph0
    2. My brother's YouTube Channel, [pif-zeer-oh] -noun - YouTube
    3. Squee's stream, http://www.twitch.tv/Squee913
    4. Squee's YouTube Channel, SpiffySquee's channel - YouTube
    5. etc etc...
    Software I use:
    1. Easy H264, http://tweevo.com/easy-h-264-video-encoder/
    2. FFmpeg, http://ffmpeg.org/
    3. Openbroadcaster, http://obsproject.com
    4. Virtual Audio Cable, http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
    5. FFsplit, http://http://www.ffsplit.com/
    6. Wirecast, http://www.telestream.net/wirecast/overview.htm
    7. Dxtory, http://dxtory.com/v2-home-en.html
    8. Google Hangouts webapp
    9. Skype, http://www.Skype.com
    10. Mikogo, http://www.mikogo.com/
    Hardware I use:
    1. Ivy Bridge 3570K
    2. GTX680
    3. Blackmagic Intensity Pro
    4. Turtle Beach Earforce PX21
    PM me for info concerning: If you have a need for a co-commentator, or if you need help with any of the above software/hardware listed. I'll do my best!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
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  2. DannibusX

    DannibusX

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    I've really got nothing to contribute, but streaming is very interesting to me. Thanks for the thread.
     
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  3. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    Ok! I like where this is going. Maybe you aren't the most knowledgeable about how people get the image on their screen to reach an audience. Let me outline a few things I've learned to help people understand a bit more about what's going on.

    The biggest challenge to a streamer is quality

    Live streaming is a balancing act. Many issues need to be addressed that just don't exist when a producer is recording/editing/uploading video. The largest issue is the quality of the video which can be produced. So streaming content does have hard-drives to write the video data when we stream.

    What streaming media uses is the upload(duh lol) side of an internet connection to provide an amount of content based on our streaming A/V codecs. Audio happens to be one of the more consistent data rates, for instance 128kbps mp3 compression is... 128 kbps. Video codecs have entirely variable data rates and levels of quality per kb/s. Most streamers will struggle to make the quality optimized for their setup. The best programs on the market for streaming utilize multiple cores and VLC's or FFmpeg's x264 codec. Unfortunately these are not commercial codecs so if you are providing some sort of commercial entertainment one would have to use apple's x264 codec which is virtually the same, but costs a lot of money for a license.

    x264 is preferred for nothing more than portability, motion representation, and multi-core compression support. The features previously mentioned no other streaming codec currently provides. This means that x264 will have the least motion distortion in the compression, and will compress as far as the cpu can be pushed to compress the image. Anyone who has encoded an x264 divx file will know that this will produce a light-weight file with high motion quality, but requires a good deal of processing power to do in a timely fashion. Because of the CPU compression this streaming method requires either a really muscly CPU or a lot of bandwidth.

    My favorite x264 streaming application is FFsplit. This application uses FFmpeg to handle video compression and the results are stunning. A less powerful CPU can either push more of the capture to bandwidth and transfer the video rather uncompressed, or someone with a more powerful CPU can use less bandwidth by utilizing extra cores. This makes the FFmpeg application extremely pleasant to use simply because each game's stream can be tailored to best suit your bandwidth limitations or system limitations.

    Components needed for a quality stream
    • Pick the right streaming resolution for your game/streaming service! Not everything needs to be HD, and not ever website streams your 720P in 720P
    • What is your video streaming rate in kbps? You may want to do 2000 kbps, but your viewers can't handle the data rate! Be mindful of your restrictions and your audience.
    • Are you streaming a lot of motion? Powerful applications like wirecast are better for video blogs, but when it comes to a video game you need something with x264 support!
    • Got a dual core processor? Try using a service like livestream. Procaster is better for low-spec systems. If you want to be a bit more serious then I would suggest a quad core desktop processor for quality and stability.
    • Do a lot of testing! Everyone's setups behave differently.


    I hope this helps some people understand what's going on, but for those who aren't really into reading.

    tl/dr; streamer's A/V->compression & streaming app->rtmp server->website FLV viewer is how streaming works. There's lots of things that help this process work.
     
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  4. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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  5. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    It is a good starting point, but it is also an expensive starting point. X Split is a poor rewrite of open source code made explicitly for profit.

    I understand that this is my opinion, and I'm not going to say people can't/shouldn't use this information although I feel compelled to use my experience to save people money/time. If anyone has their own successful practices using any application including x-split, and he/she would like to share instead of guide linking it would help keep discussion on TPU.

    Keeping the issue on TPU reduces confusion. Unlike overclocking, streaming uses a lot of different applications and those applications have even more options of how to create the right streaming formula.

    I've had people tell me my methods are too complicated/over-thought, but those same people are always floored by the quality of my streams and what can be accomplished.

    For example! I am able to screen share conference in real time (+2 sec max) with a number of commentators, share game sound with those in the conference without them hearing their own voices, and maintain a 720p stream with a DX11 game.
     
  6. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    The general idea of using X-Split is to minimise the setting up time, its relatively common among progamers who would rather spend their time practising. That is the impression I got, but I am no streamer.
     
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  7. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    A X-Split is by no means free which may be a non issue for the paid pro-gamers with endorsements, but all non-paid users have restricted resolutions/low-grade sound/watermarks.

    I totally get where you are going with this Four, and by all means PLEASE keep contributing! :D I'm so happy you are here. My posts are not meant to be a reprimand!

    To show my intention I'd like to provide a number of Streaming Applications with the cost for full function use:

    As of 10/05/2012
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3
    0 Program Standard License PRO License
    1 X-Split 3 month USD 14.95 USD 24.95
    2 X-Split 12 month USD 39.95 USD 59.95
    3 X-Split 36 month USD 79.95 USD 119.95
    4 Wirecast Lifetime USD 495.00 USD 995.00
    5 Livestream (procaster) Monthly FREE USD 45.00
    6 FFsplit (open source) FREE N/A
    7 Flash Media Encoder FREE N/A


    ::EDIT:: Here's an example of the same game recorded with two different programs using similar setups (near exactly the same PC parts and internet connection).
    My stream of Ghost Recon Future Soldier(FFSplit) - http://www.twitch.tv/slumbering/b/334012771
    My brother's stream of Ghost Recon Future Soldier(Wirecast Pro) - http://www.twitch.tv/piph0/b/334011311
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  8. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    What programs/software is good for video encoding now days? Or, I should ask what is a good format with minimal quality loss that I can use with YouTube vids?
     
  9. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    That's a good question. My brother will use more of the commercial stuff which has editing and encoding suites all in one such as Adobe Premiere or Vegas. I will use a powerful x264 encoder like ffmpeg. Learning to use VLC, DivX, and programs like FFmpeg can save a lot of money.

    For anyone familiar with DivX the following argument will allow use of ffmpeg for x264 encoding.

    ^this is a problem. With a lot of the super affordable options there is a use of command line arguments to drive the encoding. The nice part is that the encoding becomes lighter weight. You designate the source and it creates an encoded and compressed output.

    FFmpeg all on its own is awesome for a number of uses. Here is a list of command-line phrases which illustrate just how powerful the program can be.

    (Source)
    ::EDIT:: In case I'm scaring anyone BEWARE I have an hour left sitting at a desk until I go home, start streaming, and stop bothering you fine folks with my walls of text.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
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  10. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    Codecs Reference and Misc Info.

    Here's a bit of learning and reference informational pages on codecs and other random junk associated with digital video/audio distribution. Hopefully you guys will find it useful. I apologize for all of the off-linking to sources, but I will provide a synopsis of the information on the page.

    Codec Wiki- What are codecs? This wiki details the very basis of digital media compression. What does it mean to have a lossy or lossless codec? Although this information is general it does provide the groundwork for understanding digital media's distribution packages.
    List of Codecs Wiki

    Amazon Search for Video Capture Cards - The heck Binge? The deal here is that not everyone thinks to use a video capture card for a solution to some A/V problem. I'm just linking this search criteria because they work to offload encode from a video source without using the CPU, and can be used as a Direct Show capture source. These capture sources are able to be used in place of a webcam in a number of applications.

    Anandtech's Testing of OpenCL accelerating the x264 transcoding using Handbreak - This is some very relevant information in the progress GPUs are making toward encoding contribution. Be advised if you are shopping around for new equipment and you have a budget to pay these types of articles some mind.

    An article detailing GPU vs CPU accelleration of H.264 encoding using CUDA - This is an interesting read, and puts CUDA under the microscope for use in video encoding.

    Virtual Audio Cable Wiki - A very useful application which manages a number of audio sources into one virtual source. The wiki provides information in greater detail.

    source
     
  11. mafia97

    mafia97

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    i record gameplays , do i belong here?
    dont stream videos
     
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  12. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    Yeah man you totally belong here. You are a content provider. Whenever someone takes audio or video and makes it available on the web they are producing their own content. This place is made explicitly for people to talk about what they do and how they do it. :toast:

    There's no boss here so as long as its on the topic of A/V content a TPU member makes it belongs.
     
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  13. james888

    james888

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    I am going to be starting to record a lot of gameplay from Natural selection 2. I am in a competitive team and it helps us see what we did wrong having someone record while spectating. I also want to record my gameplay so I can see and then correct the stupid things I do. I am just starting to look around at what software to use. I don't care who sees videos of me playing, but my team wants team videos to be private only to us.

    What do you think of the softwares:
    Tpu OSD server beta (has recording function)
    Msi Afterburner video recording function
    Gregion had some strong positive reviews from people in the ns2 forums.
    All the big ns2 casters use fraps but you already stated your opinion on that.

    Again I am just starting to look into this.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  14. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    Sounds like a really cool project :) Are you interested in HDD recording or streaming to a place like Own3d or Twitch?
     
  15. Guitarrassdeamor

    Guitarrassdeamor

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    I use Fraps to record but my problem is, while I have lots of space, it takes up way too much memory to record a video. I have a 500gb (maybe TB, I forgot) drive dedicated to the videos I capture once in a while...I record at 1920x1200 at 60FPS when possible, which I understand makes the file size bigger, and I record in continuous files. Also, when I edit the videos, I try to use Sony Vegas, but I don't find it the easiest editor to use as video sizes and the formats it outputs to...need to try something else. Have used After Effects in the past and that worked out relatively well.

    These are two videos I've done recently, both at 1920x1200...however the L4D2 video has bars (understandable, that is how it should be) and the BF:BC2 does not...but it doesn't look cut off to me.
    Left 4 Dead 2 - Quick Parish Round - YouTube
    I Knife People in BF:BC 2 - YouTube

    On a side note, back when I was co-leader of a good sized Killzone 2 Clan, we were going to do a Machinima type video series called Meet the Team (yes, based off of TF2s Meet the Team idea). It went rather well until the guy who recorded the video (also leader) abandoned the clan and left me to do all the work...second video besides recording video was basically me by myself, hence why it wasn't as good. But to capture a Happapauge HD PVR was used and it came out very well actually. Editing was in Adobe Premiere I believe (I did it all and can't remember, sad). When I made the first video I was especially proud of myself (lol) because I put in the text on the buildings (my first time editing other than cutting/pasting clips).
    Episode 1: Meet the Team: Episode 1 "Meet the Medic" - YouTub...
    Episode 2: Meet the Team: Episode 2 "Meet the Assault" - YouT...
     
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  16. mafia97

    mafia97

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    Thanks dude,
    i won a website where i post articles about games and tech world and i made a channel where i post gameplay hacking and tech videos(preety amateur in everything)
    i use fraps and hypercam to record my gameplay and desktop respctively, then i use virtualdub(gaining experience in using it) to compress, resize and add logo to my video.
    i always try to help my views at youtube(this is what i like about techpowerup, and learned from it).
    mostly ignore trolls, but recently they are becoming annoying
    thats all :)
     
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  17. james888

    james888

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    To be honest I don't know. I just decided to do this last night, and dismourning I found this thread. Havn't done much research at all. A lot of ns2 comp players use twitch. I don't think I got the upload speed for it though. 25mbit down 1mbit up. I think I would prefer a cloud based solution, but some of the videos have to private for my team only.
     
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  18. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    A lot of folks use FRAPS, and while I prefer dxtory I do not discriminate. When it comes to recording to an HDD my brother runs into a lot of the same problems as you guys.

    [pif-zeer-oh] -noun - YouTube

    He uses fraps and Adobe Premiere for all of his recording and editing. TBH if it were me I would record using fraps/dxtory, edit with Premiere, and then compress using FFmpeg for x264 encoding which minimizes compression loss.

    The issue your connection creates is that you will throw latency into your online play. Because it is competitive I would recommend recording to a good HDD with fast access times dedicated as a video dump. Fraps/dxtory would be your best option for solid reliability.

    ::EDIT::

    Dxtory's How to Page - I'm suggesting everyone take a look at this application. The only reason I suggest it is because this has been one of the best $45 for two licenses I've spent this year :p Split it with a friend and you both make out with a super powerful program.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
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  19. 1Kurgan1

    1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back

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    You might want to think about Dxtory, and if you don't want to spend money, Afterburner creates smaller files than Fraps. Both those can save oyu space, though Dxtory you will have to do some tweaking (link in my sig helps make small files with high quality).

    Also if you want small files, you could try using Handbrake before you work on the video. But something like Premiere when encoding at the end will drop file size down anyways.
     
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  20. Guitarrassdeamor

    Guitarrassdeamor

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    Yeah, I know they drop when I export them, the problem is if I'm recording a session that is a few hours long, I will run into space issues or say I don't edit and upload the videos right away...I mean a 300gb video at 1 hour (IIRC) is a bit insane. I will download Dxtory and try it...one reason I liked Fraps is it works well with my Logitech keyboard in that I can see the display for FPS and it tells me whether it is recording or not. I'll get Premiere again and try that rather than Vegas...whatever version I'm using of Vegas seems to not work as well as the older versions I used (for me).
     
  21. james888

    james888

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    Thanks for the info so far. I think I am going to try dxtory to my hdd with kurgans settings tonight or tomorrow. Then I will figure out how to share with my team mates.

    I remember my hdd's access time was 15.7 of whatever unit they use. Milliseconds? WD black 500gb. Ns2 is really cpu intensive so I will have to work around that.
     
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  22. 1Kurgan1

    1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back

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    Dxtory has a FPS display as well, so might want to see if it works with your keyboard. Even if it doesn't if that space is a problem since you might leave a video sit. Then just pick up Handbrake like I mentioned. And encode it with h264, any setting between 20 - 15 on video will shrink down size and still leave great looking files. A large file will take a while, so just set it up then go get some sleep, then delete that big file in the morning and you will be set.

    Though with a 2700k, if you clock it up, using Dxtory and the x264 Codec, you won't have as much of a need to compress those files, since you can be more aggressive on the settings and have the CPU do a good amount while it's recording.

    The weird thing about Dxtory and the x264 codec is, it seems to get more efficient the longer it records.

    I have a 1hr 3min video thats only 16.6 gb which ends up being only about 4.93MB/s where as I have a 9min long video that is 3.55gb which ends up being 6.7MB/s. Under a 12 or so min video, the x264 codec compresses a good amount more than Fraps. But after you break that 12 min, it compresses much better.

    Another good example of that is, that 9 min 3.55gb video I just mentioned. I have another thats 16 min and only 4gb, almost double the length and less than 500mb larger. So if you are recording those large sessions, Dxtory + x264 really is going to work great for you.

    --------------

    Also if you get more curious and want more control. Dxtory also can record multiple audio channels. I have Skype on it's own, my mic on it's own, and game sounds on their own. So when I edit my videos, I can adjust the volume of each of those independently. Or say if I am rambling on my audio and don't want that, I can just cut that audio and the game + other person playing with me audio is untouched.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
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  23. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    Everything he has said is true, easy to set up, and easy to save settings for later use. Repeatable reliable quality is why I went with Dxtory for a number of projects. I use it for DirectShow outputs but that is because I primarily stream. People commented my stream of Ghost Recon: Future Soldier was the best they had seen, and I stream in 960x540 :laugh: All of these people with 1080p streams can't even get the motion to look fluid, and it doesn't help that Twitch will compress a user's 1080p stream.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
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  24. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    Wanted to give people an update or something to maybe liven up some discussion.

    FFsplit recently released a Hotfix to correct stream-disconnect issues with their software

    The hotfix is an amendment to their 0.5.5.0 update which added a great many new features.
    If anyone is looking for an xsplit/FMLC/procaster replacement check out FFsplit.
     
  25. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    Forgive me but I had to change the title to "Video Streamers.
    Every time I glanced at it and saw "Steamers". No don't google it, ever. You've been warned.

    Carry on and thanks for the interesting club and content. :toast:
     
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