1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Watch_Dogs - Suffering the same issue as Aliens: Colonial Marines?

Discussion in 'Games' started by RCoon, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. RCoon

    RCoon Gaming Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    7,474 (8.08/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,615
    Location:
    Gypsyland, UK
    I noticed there was a bit of grumbling on the internet over the weekend about this. The demo for Watch_Dogs at E3 last year looked quite amazing, and many people had some great feedback for the game. But recently there was a gameplay trailer, and everybody noticed the graphical fidelity of the game has greatly reduced when you compared both pieces of game footage.

    Ubersoft released a statement blatantly admitting they had misrepresented the game with their E3 demo, but that gameplay should be more important to people. I wholeheartedly agree that gameplay > graphics, but when you advertise a game for being cutting edge graphically, you can't then turn around and claim they then don't matter.

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vid...h-Dogs-A-Vertical-Slice-Of-Steaming-Bullshots

    EDIT: After watching that video yesterday, I've now noticed this morning that Ubi are saying the graphics weren't downgraded? Original statement in the video I linked says otherwise. Slightly confused.
     
    Easy Rhino says thanks.
  2. FX-GMC

    FX-GMC

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    856 (1.99/day)
    Thanks Received:
    326
    Location:
    Cumberland Plateau
    They did the same thing with Far Cry 3. Guess if Watch_Dogs does truly not live up to the fidelity of the E3 demo it will become a bargain buy for me.
     
  3. 64K

    64K

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    556 (2.40/day)
    Thanks Received:
    261
    UbiSoft comes across with attitude when it comes to PC gamers. One month they will be claiming that 90% of us PC gamers are pirates and then come out a month later and say they want to work closer with PC gamers to give us what we want but usually we get attitude from UbiSoft. It seems like they're unaware about the millions of sales they make to PC gamers. I still play most of their games though but they're an odd bunch.
     
  4. rtwjunkie

    rtwjunkie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,477 (0.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    563
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Well, Jim Stirling even said that the graphics are not "bad", that there is nothing wrong with them. They just aren't as good as the E3 demo. This is all fine with me, because it was the game concept and gameplay that I am looking for, as I'm sure a lot of you are. With the release date pushed back, it was my understanding that it was to give us that gameplay, not graphics.
     
  5. RCoon

    RCoon Gaming Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    7,474 (8.08/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,615
    Location:
    Gypsyland, UK
    He also says it is wrong to advertise a game based on it's next gen graphics, and then slim them down. It's like having your cake and eating it. If Timegate studios can't get away with it, then nobody should, no matter how good the gameplay is. According to that old chestnut, false advertising is false advertising.

    I'm all for gameplay, that's why I still prefer Diablo 2 over Diablo 3. But abusing the hype at E3 by providing a less than actual representation of your game is simply poor conduct.
     
    FX-GMC says thanks.
  6. Kaynar

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    616 (0.61/day)
    Thanks Received:
    163
    Well of course, they were showing Watch Dogs gameplay on a 6core intel with 2 or 3 GTX680 working. Now you want them to release the same on a cheap amd cpu and mid-range gpu from 2-3 years ago?

    On another note, I don't understand why they would remove the top graphics quality from the game's options as they did on PC with Far Cry 3...

    Marketing is the strong hand of PS4 and Xbone, so I expect only tricks everywhere.
     
  7. FX-GMC

    FX-GMC

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    856 (1.99/day)
    Thanks Received:
    326
    Location:
    Cumberland Plateau
    It's called graphics scaling. Those that can run it should be able to. If you can't run it that way, you turn the settings down.

    Maybe the gameplay trailer was running on a console?
     
  8. Kaynar

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    616 (0.61/day)
    Thanks Received:
    163
    yes, that's my point, but during last E3 they were showing this gameplay footage with l33t graphics, certainly NOT running on console hardware (the quality was too high for it to be on consoles) and the main selling point of this game at that E3 was "omg ze graphicz" on "next gen" console exactly as described in the video that RCoon linked.

    Also, thx RCoon I had forgotten this guy exists gonna watch few more of his recent videos :D
     
    RCoon says thanks.
  9. BiggieShady

    BiggieShady

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    349
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Behold the power of hype machine. Now when we have x86 consoles with dx11 GPUs it's ridiculously easy to crank everything up on pc dev kits with quad crossfire just for the E3 show to collect the rewards ...
     
  10. marsey99

    marsey99

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,594 (0.60/day)
    Thanks Received:
    300
    not sure removing graphic options is in the same boat as showing a game on one engine looking nice and then selling the game built on another engine tbh.
     
  11. swaaye

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    234 (0.07/day)
    Thanks Received:
    16
    Colonial Marines' problem is its mind numbing gameplay. If that matters to you guys. It actually looks pretty good these days after all the patches since they added/restored a number of effects.
     
  12. TheHunter

    TheHunter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    967 (1.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    366
    Location:
    Europa
    Yeah..

    E3 2012 video was apparently PC, and even this isnt so wow anymore, Snow-Drop engine looks more next gen to me.


    E3 2013 next-gen consoles.



    I hope they'll stick with this statement otherwise they're just another joke :p
     
  13. lilhasselhoffer

    lilhasselhoffer

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,657 (1.27/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    ...I will parrot the points that Jim Sterling made. The graphics aren't bad, but aren't spectacular. This wouldn't be a problem, assuming that the game wasn't sold on bleeding edge graphics.

    Personally, I don't care. Watchdogs can have all the eye candy in the world, and it'd never be pretty enough. It's basically been sold well beyond its means, as "the justification for purchasing a next gen (now current gen) console." That kind of hype is hyperbolic, and moronic. It leads to consumers expecting a game with a two year development cycle and huge amounts of resources plowed into it. Watch Dogs isn't the singular engine that Ubisoft will be using for the current generation. It isn't a tech demonstration that only has to last 10 minutes. It's doomed to failure by hype machine before it even hits the store shelves.

    If you don't believe me, then ask yourselves why the game was delayed. The marketing team at Ubisoft did a great job painting an amazing picture, but the actual game is delivering far less. Nobody wants to be the next Sega (I'm looking at you Aliens: Colonial Marines), so Ubisoft has started the PR smoke screen and delayed release.


    To be fair, the gameplay might be some sublime and amazing experience. That doesn't excuse it from being ludicrously overshadowed by graphical fidelity promises. Looking back, you've got something similar to Crysis here. Was the gameplay unique; no. Was the story something new or special; no. Why did people buy it then; the graphics. Crysis brought systems to their knees, because of graphical technologies (and less than optimal dx10 components). That is what Ubisoft promised, and now they're back pedaling and promising us Timesplitters. Nothing great or new, but competent mechanics and a decent story. I love Timesplitters and I still boot Crysis; for some reason Ubisoft can't see that promising one, and delivering the other, might not be received by consumers as a good thing. Their PR people should be fired out of a cannon into the sea, set adrift to find new jobs selling salt water in Utah. They might just be able to do it.
     
    RCoon says thanks.
  14. Frag Maniac

    Frag Maniac

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,663 (1.83/day)
    Thanks Received:
    555
    I was assuming, and hope by "misrepresented", they mean the first trailers shown were PC footage, and those thereafter last gen console footage. If that's the case, I'm fine with it.

    There was a LOT of not just misrepresentation, but deceit and corruption with A:CM. Gearbox didn't even develop it, and even took the majority of funding that was supposed to be spent on it and put it into Borderlands 2 instead, without even overseeing the team that it was given to. It was literally a blatant ripoff.

    Given the graphic quality of some of Ubi's work, like the AC series, I seriously doubt this will end up being another disaster of the scale of A:CM. Even Liberation HD got pretty good graphics, esp considering it was ported from a made for Vita title. On PC you can also edit an ini file to make Lib HD look better than max settings, quite a bit better.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  15. BiggieShady

    BiggieShady

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    349
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Hmm, thanks for that, I didn't know the full story :shadedshu:

    If that was the case, there would be nothing to write about ... for PC those are only the default settings, for consoles where settings are minimal - it's an issue.
    On PC it should be tweakable to the max at least through config files.
    I mean, they would have to spend extra resources now to restrict the config options of the engine for pc build.
    They would have to spend more money to shoot themselves in another foot.
     
  16. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,828 (13.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    14,202
    I'll wait and see the PC version. Biggest difference seems to be lighting and reflections.
     
  17. lilhasselhoffer

    lilhasselhoffer

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,657 (1.27/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Here's where I'm having the problem.

    A demonstration is putting your best foot forward. If this was a demonstration of a previous generation console, I'd immediately make that clear. All you'd have to do is denote that the video was a demonstration on previous generation hardware. That way you'd be able to say "we've got current generation graphics on current generation machines." That requires about one brain cell of effort, and could be retroactively added once the error was detected. I have yet to see them make this move. Doing so only has one potential negative outcome, if you are lying.

    Assuming that this isn't a previous generation display, it's hard to see how the graphics have degraded so far. If this is a PC version running minimum required specs, it's not unreasonable to see this kind of a drop from a quad-sli setup. Again, I'd be making note of this if it were my demo. No such luck, this sucker is provided as is.

    So we're left with the assumption that we're being screwed by another developer, and the developer is being extremely evasive in answering questions. It's sad to say, but if I were a betting man this is where I'd place my money. You need only see the public relations drivel coming from Ubisoft to know that there's something wrong going on there. They aren't promising better performance from higher specification systems. They aren't highlighting what the demo was played on. Ubisoft isn't even touting the delay as a chance to "polish" features prior to release. Consider me a cynic, but this reeks of a hype machine performing far better than the actual product does. It isn't an unreasonable conclusion, which is kind of depressing.
     
  18. swaaye

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    234 (0.07/day)
    Thanks Received:
    16
    Crysis had astonishing visuals but the first half of the game also had some of the best "sandbox" shooter gameplay I've played. I'm not sure there is anything else quite like it and Crysis Warhead, with the ballistics simulation, vehicles, environmental aspects, interesting AI, etc. Maybe ARMA does something similar? I dunno.
     
  19. kn00tcn

    kn00tcn

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    692 (0.33/day)
    Thanks Received:
    122
    Location:
    Toronto
    crysis also lied about visuals before release

    [​IMG]

    eventually you can sorta tweak it to look like that, but you need a custom level for it
     
  20. ViperXTR

    ViperXTR

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    407
    Dark Souls 2 for the consoles also had its graphics downgraded. Still waiting for for the PC release if it was the same as it was from the early trailers.
     
  21. Recus

    Recus

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    529 (0.44/day)
    Thanks Received:
    180

    -------------
    Don't believe in those Sony or Microsoft "next-gen graphics". Actual PS4 gameplay.
     
  22. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,838 (6.26/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,706
    Location:
    IA, USA
    E3 has more in common with animated movie production (think Shrek, Monster's Inc, Dispicable Me, etc.) than game making. They take scripted actors, scripted scenes, and scripted events and make them play out in a very limited way. This makes it easy to test which translates to making it easy to make look pretty. Once you enter an unscripted player into the same environment (actual game development), the player will quickly discover that there is nothing around a lot of the corners you see in the movie, that you can't run it at acceptable frame rates without a beast of a computer, and that the further you deviate from the movie's intended path, the more likely it is to crash.

    My point of all of this is that no one should ever assume anything shown at E3 is remotely playable unless there's a system sitting there where anyone can play it. Ubisoft showed a movie production at E3-2012; they showed a game production at E3-2013. If they showed an unpolished movie at E3-2012, there probably wouldn't be half the interest there was in it at E3-2012. E3 is intended to showcase products, not show what early development stages of games look like.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
    Crunching for Team TPU
  23. FX-GMC

    FX-GMC

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    856 (1.99/day)
    Thanks Received:
    326
    Location:
    Cumberland Plateau
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  24. KieranD

    KieranD

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,043 (3.05/day)
    Thanks Received:
    822
    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    For me its not the fact that they "downgraded" the quality of the graphics but more so their evasiveness in revealing why they did that. The graphics look okay and if the game is any good then that's alright, but there is this Ubisoft bullshit.

    I remember that one of the Killzone games used prerendered footage at E3 and everyone was up in arms about that. E3 is more for showcasing or revealing a game, not really the development process.

    Its the same with Dark Souls 2, the games good but whats the reason why they changed the graphics? Is it really that the systems can't run it at a decent frame rate? I mean come on treat your customers with respect rather than assume something about us.
     
  25. BiggieShady

    BiggieShady

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    349
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Damn you are right, Dark Souls 2 has whole levels completely redesigned and there are no dark rooms ... in dark souls o_O

     

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page