1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

What IDE Or Editor Do You Use?

Discussion in 'Programming & Webmastering' started by Kreij, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,174 (6.58/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,023
    Location:
    Concord, NH
    That's what a version control system is for. Pretty sure I mentioned git before. It does a pretty good job at merging code together and telling you about conflicts. Also if you're merging in changes and you're not reviewing how they've been merged in, that bad to begin with. You don't need a GUI to manage a framework for you. More software than not has some thought about how code for any particular part of a project should be written, hence why projects like Moodle have guidelines you must follow to contribute code back upstream.

    There is a time and a place for GUI tools and I understand that. I also don't want you to think that I don't want you to have an opinion because I have a strong one of my own. If a GUI IDE helps you do what you do, that's fantastic. All the code I work with lives on Linux servers so I have to work with a Linux platform and the easiest way to do that is stick with what I have to run stuff on. So I don't develop locally. If I write Java I'll use Netbeans and VS for C#, but when it comes to editing scripts, I can't find much justification to use an IDE.

    You can't have good advanced code completion with PHP anyways because the data can always mutate. Just because it was initially set to some class "Foobar" doesn't mean that at another point it won't be "Barfoo". Most dynamically typed languages have this problem and code completion really is best suited for languages like C# and Java, languages that are strongly typed, but when it comes to scripting languages like PHP and Ruby it very well could be incomplete. I too write php professionally and it all runs on a *nix server. At work I develop on a pair Ubuntu server and deploy to a pair RHEL servers.

    Not at all, there is a time and a place for everything. If you don't need a GUI, there is no reason to use it imho. I can't fathom why anyone would want to run PHP on a Windows server unless there is another piece of software you're using that needs Windows (except MSSQL, MSSQL and PHP together has always been a mess). That's just me though. I've heard horror stories about using PHP with MSSQL, and I can believe it after trying to use IIS with PHP. Also, why pay for Windows Server licenses if you can get away with Linux on your server? I do understand that not all software runs on *nix, so it's not always an option.

    Also just because CLIs came first doesn't mean that they're obsolete.

    I didn't say complicate, I said complect. As in, to make compound.
    The exact definition is:
    I personally think that a lot of IDEs have a lot of features and have, quite frankly, snow balled by making any one particular tool overly complex (not necessarily complicated to use,) by having it do multiple things. I personally believe that having one tool for one job is the appropriate approach. That way each tool focuses on what it has to do well and by doing that you're not introducing interdependencies between different aspects of whatever application you're working on.

    I just like simple tools that do simple things with scripts that put these simple parts together to do something complex. That's just a preference though.

    I respect that you like GUI IDEs and such. I think there are some pretty good ones out there. My experiences with Netbeans for Java have been very good in fact, but as far as what I enjoy the most and has been consistently my favorite and best platform to use has been a cli with some from of *nix using vim as an editor.

    The right tools for the right job, man. To validate your point, you're right. I haven't worked in a large corporate environment so I can't say, but I can say I have experience with small to medium sized teams, but even with teams up to 8-10 people you'll still see people using subversion or git with vim or some other editor.

    I don't see either tool being better or worse in a larger environment when people know how to properly use the tools they need for either platform.

    I'm just saying from my own personal experience, I've enjoyed working on the CLI on *nix more so than not, particularly with PHP and Ruby applications.

    I apologize for my abrasive attitude for anyone who may be offended, I tend to have that effect on people. I don't mean to put anyone down, I just feel strongly about this. Remember, I'm talking about what I prefer, not what is better for all use cases. What might be better for me, might be completely different than what is good for someone else.
    digibucc says thanks.
  2. digibucc

    digibucc

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,913 (2.56/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,489
    no i should have been clearer. I only code I don't host myself, I use dedicated or shared lamp servers & just use windows as my os. since I work from home it's my work and personal machine, which is the main reason for using windows. even using linux though I just can't go as far as cli.

    not necessarily obsolete, but I wonder other than small imprint what can they do that you can't configure an ide to do as well? you can use an ide just like a cli but with more features, no? to your next point though i do see it as a simple individual part.
    and I thought I had a good vocabulary. I saw the red underline and didn't even bother to look it up. :shadedshu

    but I definitely see your point, I just feel the opposite about it. If I can find one program I like to do multiple parts of the job, i don't need to find the individual parts. flashfxp + debug wamp stack + notepad++ was the closest I had come before moving to phpstorm. and I just needed a little bit more that wasn't available without imho pita plugins. not only do i like the editor in phpstorm better than notepad++, but it made my job a lot simpler by requiring less software juggling and letting me code more.

    same here. it really seems it is as simple as different opinions. I always try to understand ... sometimes that's the best answer I can get :)
    Aquinus says thanks.
  3. Easy Rhino

    Easy Rhino Linux Advocate

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,409 (4.72/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,233
    yes, that's true you can use Git or something similiar for control. But let's see you walk into a project halfway through and you need to review 100's of .class files with little to no documentation. a gui ide is prefect because you can quickly review those files using tabs and switch back and forth with no hassle. i am talking hundreds of .class files. then, if you are working with a compiled language like java try writing a .class file that imports a dozen or so other .class files and external jar's using the cli. And if you make a mistake or change one aspect of the code to recompile you have to reenter every single .class you want to include during compile time. an ide like netbeans/eclipse manages all of that for you.
  4. Frick

    Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    10,490 (3.38/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,149
  5. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,174 (6.58/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,023
    Location:
    Concord, NH
    Lack of documentation is the fault of the developer. Every method, class variable, and class should be documented imho (I also think that Netbeans will read javadoc style comments for auto-completion documentation). If it's not you're just making it harder regardless of what IDE you use.

    VIM lets you have multiple files open and lets you switch between them as well as slitting the screen as well as showing diffs. (Man, I love vim-diff,) but on top of that you can use ctags with vim with languages like php where all you need to do is select a keyword, press ctrl+] and it will open the file and show you where that word is defined. So without any gui at all, I was just able to navigate classes by method with a two button keystroke. I don't call that bad at all.

    Also I think I mentioned how there are some languages where GUI IDEs work well, java is one of them. I happen to like Netbeans when I write Java myself, but I'm speaking generally here, as a tool, vim lets you do many things very quickly. As primarily a web developer who writes php, ruby, and bash, I have some incentives to want to use vim.

    If I were to write Java, I would rather have real code completion and the ease of navigating Java APIs instead. I think I would want that for almost any strictly typed language to be honest.

    So let me rephrase, I like vim for writing scripts. I like GUI IDEs when I use strictly typed and compiled languages.
    What? I think TPU is in a browser under that screenshot, so the light background is probably TPU. I use black on white or white on black depending on the ambient lighting and which ever I feel like using.
  6. Easy Rhino

    Easy Rhino Linux Advocate

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,409 (4.72/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,233
    that is exactly where i was going with that. :toast:
    Aquinus says thanks.
  7. Castiel

    Castiel

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,319 (1.44/day)
    Thanks Received:
    310
    I tried this before, using the same method. But I just feel weird while using vim, to the point that it is old, and hasn't been updated so much. I just find myself sticking with GUI IDE's.
  8. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,174 (6.58/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,023
    Location:
    Concord, NH
    Weird doesn't mean that it's worse. Vi is old, VIM is less old but the version I'm running isn't even a year old so, no, you're wrong. :)

    It has a steeper learning curve, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a good option. There is more to remember, that's definitely true but like anything else, you get better at what you use a lot and the added advantage to having a GUI is that you can visually search for what you want as opposed to figuring out what commands or keystroke combinations you have to make to do any one particular thing, but on the other hand on a command line editor, most actions you'll do are within one or two keystrokes so the time it takes to do any one thing can be less if you know what you're doing.

    As I said before, I would use a GUI editor for something like Java or C# but for a scripting or command languages, VIM is pretty powerful for things like Ruby, PHP, and BASH. Not knowing how to use a tool is not the fault of the tool. Hard to learn doesn't imply hard to use. ;)

    Learning VIM is like learning regular expressions. You don't get very good at it unless you use it practically and you use it a lot.
  9. Vinska

    Vinska

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,406 (1.25/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,244
    Location:
    Kaunas, Lithuania
    Read this.
    Crunching for Team TPU

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page