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:What if" Ron Paul Asks.

Discussion in 'General Nonsense' started by CyberDruid, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. CyberDruid

    CyberDruid New Member

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    erocker says thanks.
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Way to tell ask it like it is Ron! :toast:
     
  3. Steevo

    Steevo

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    Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them.



    Bow chika bow wow. Anyone else wanna see what happens? Mebey nothing, mebey something. Either way, it is the beginning of something good.
     
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  4. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    I don't like Ron Paul namely because he hasn't learned the lessons of history. Take, for instance, "what if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy." Well, Mr. Paul, do realize it was World War II that took the USA out of the Great Depression and made it a superpower until the collapse of the Soviet Union (when it was arguably upgraded to "hyperpower"). Do realize that war is ALWAYS PROFITABLE for those that know how to position themselves for profit (agricultural, defense, transportation, and all industries that support those). Sorry, Mr. Paul, it isn't the 1920's anymore. An isolationist stance leads to world wars. Because the USA (the only "hyperpower") has rejected isolationism, World War III has yet to come to fruition.


    Need I also remind people that the last World War had a death toll numbered in the millions, not the hundreds of thousands. 5000 is a phenomenally LOW number for a period spanning almost 6 years. People who see that as a failure need to take a step back in history are review wars of the recent past that spanned about the same amount of time (Vietnam War: 58,159 , Korean War: 36,516, World War II: 416,800) to see that their perspective on the issue is flawed. Paul should be praising the armed forces for keeping casualties low, not denouncing them. Those people died in service to their country, they should be mourned, not used as a platform for political gains.


    Mr. Paul is about as much Republican as Mr. Lieberman is Democrat.



    "Speak softly and carry a big stick."
    --Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States of America
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
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  5. ChromeDome

    ChromeDome New Member

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    w/e Paul asks i'm not answering because i'm not listening! :)
     
  6. Binge

    Binge Overclocking Surrealism

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    To address your claim that WWII was not that bad because of xyz. The great depression would have been far less "great" if WWI had never been made our issue. I can't believe you're justifying a war that benefits people other than the every day men and women working class of our country. There is a reason the death toll is so low. It's because we are speaking loudly, carrying a big stick, and walking through an environment inhabited by the military force equivalent to that of an adolencent. Keeping things in perspective I'd like to see the death toll of US citizens around 5000 less every 6 years to make up for the losses we have due to cancer, car accidents, and murder.
     
  7. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    WWI contributed to the Great Depression because international trade dropped off sharply in the aftermath but, just like what we are experiencing now, the two primary causes are bank instability and lack of consumer purchases for non-necessity goods. As with any major event, there is always more than one cause that leads to the effect.

    There's always benefactors of a war--who specifically is benefiting depends on priorities. In the case of WWII, mostly sons were sent to Europe and the Pacific in order to bring the war to the enemy. Yes, it created economic hardships in the mainland because of so many resources being devoted to a distant cause but, by doing so, people on the mainland had little fear of being attacked directly. In the end, everyone benefited from the war by being free of tyrannical rule. Yes, some suffer from the loss of loved ones, injuries, and the other hardships that come with war but the consequences of not fighting it were unfathomably worse. For example, had we not acted, there would probably not be a single Jew left alive today.

    The death count for Iraq is low because of the amount of technology we deploy in addition to extensive training. Our military is the most battle hardened in the world and it is backed by an enormous bank. The result is fewer men can accomplish more work. Those men are also well protected and well armed. Additionally, the number is low because the threat we are facing prefers scare tactics to all-out assault (results in high wounded/low casualties).


    In 2004 alone, 652,486 US citizens died of heart disease. I really don't get why you mentioned cancers, car accidents, and murder. Those numbers are many fold higher than the number killed to date in Iraq.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
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  8. CyberDruid

    CyberDruid New Member

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    War is evil. Killing is wrong.

    Argue your way around that if you can.
     
  9. Steevo

    Steevo

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    Shout that war is evil to the man killing you. If your goverment decides you are the enemy tell them you aren't as you are imprisioned for your beliefs, views, thoughts, ideas, speach, clothes, etc....

    Alot of old now unused military camps have had the barbed wire turned from the outside of the fence ot the inside. To keep people in, why? Why were people who refused to fight imprisoned on both sides of a war?

    Tell the man who rapes and kills little girls that killing is wrong. Tell the man who put his infant into a microwave that killing is wrong. Tell the mother that burns her children and then abaondons them that killing is wrong.

    http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridg...ourt-date-set-for-alleged-child-rapist-killer
    http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=259123
    http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou070516_ac_microwavebaby.74432b1b.html


    Note that I don't like to kill people, if someone hurt one of my children, I would just make them want to die, then deny them that pleasure.


    Back to the thread, passive non aggression to many is the same as consenting. There must be a force in place that allows for the termination of a life that is dangerous to the whole, unless you want to support them, feed them, house them, entertain them. While we still ahve poor starving individuals on the streets who have done nothing wrong.
     
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  10. Polaris573

    Polaris573 Senior Moderator

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    So we should have perpetual war and bow down to the military industrial complex because it's good for the economy? How Orwellian.
     
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  11. Thermopylae_480

    Thermopylae_480 New Member

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    Why not? We finally have reality television to keep the sheeples placated, and "terrorism" provides the ideal perpetual enemy to fear and pursue. All you have to do is say "terrorism" and people throw their freedom away without thought, all for some ambiguous notion of safety.

    I'm fine with all this loss of freedom so long as I can position myself to control the mindless hordes of humanity.
     
  12. CyberDruid

    CyberDruid New Member

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    You just need to start your own religion and you'd be set ;) Throw in some aliens for good measure...
     
  13. Thermopylae_480

    Thermopylae_480 New Member

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    Aliens would make an ideal external threat for me to consolidate my power globally once I gain control of the U.S. populace.
     
  14. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    So I guess Paul wants US to behave like Canada. Have fun milking real cows for a change :)
     
  15. Thermopylae_480

    Thermopylae_480 New Member

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    No, Canada is to socialist.
     
  16. Polaris573

    Polaris573 Senior Moderator

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    as opposed to fake cows??
     
  17. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Its peaceful foreign policy, I meant.

    As opposed to tax-payers, to wage wars....in Paul's perspective.
     
  18. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Will we ever learn the lesson that Robocop 1 through 3 tought us?
     
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  19. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Of course not. I am in no way promoting war because it is a bad thing. I am merely acknowledging that, more often than not, it is necessary.

    Do realize that most wars today are fought because of trade agreements. World War I and World War II would not have become world wars had people not get involved for the sake of keeping trade relationships strong. For instance, USA got involved in World War II long before we officially declared war against the Nazi regime because we were trading an insane amount of goods with Great Britain. Germany recognized this and started sicking our boats even though we weren't at war. Because the populous of the USA was still extremely isolationist, he couldn't declare war. For several years, we kept trading with Great Britain which was quite profitable for us and which, had Pearl Harbor not been attacked, would have eventually drawn us into the war against Germany.

    Similarly, the primary reason why Great Britain was our best ally during the most recent Iraqi war was for the sake of keeping up our trade situation. Trade agreements lead to alliances and alliances lead to fighting wars that aren't necessarily your own.


    Tax payers pay for defense and defense sometimes means war.
     
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  20. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

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    Whether you, in general, like or dislike, Mr Paul, you cannot deny he asks some very pointed and accurate questions. Good job.
     
  21. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    And right now America is defending itself against..?

    Preemptive defense is offense.
     
  22. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    As always, people get pissed when they were promised something (safety) and don't get it. Should we successfully get attacked again, those freedoms to privacy will be viciously attacked as being ineffective. Also, "privacy" isn't a freedom granted by the Constitution...


    Yes, I can. He continues to demand USA become isolationist and denies that trade is an excellent thing. His views are very pre-WWII. His questions aren't accurate; his questions are created on incorrect assumptions.


    Afghanistan: 9/11 Pt. 2

    Iraq: The intelligence was bad. Knowing what we now know, no, we shouldn't have attacked unprovoked. I can't rewrite history. Iraq is still better off for it so it wasn't a complete waste and it's one less dictator to get "bright" ideas.
     
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  23. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    In a vineyard, one particular grape is poisoned (and you know what it looks like). You're culling the entire plantation, knowing for sure, making an educated guess, imagining there could be more poisoned grapes.

    Billions of dollars and almost a decade later, you haven't been able to catch the poisoned grape, and have almost ruined the entire plantation looking for it. In the process, the farm-laborer ended up getting rich :)

    Touchy topic, we'll end it here.
     
  24. Thermopylae_480

    Thermopylae_480 New Member

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    Paul doesn't propose isolation, just non-intervention. He is a big proponent of fair trade among nations and opening friendly diplomatic communication with nations that even Mr. Change won't. Just because he doesn't think we should spend billions being the world's police and maintaining our empire overseas doesn't make him isolationist.
     
  25. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    One in the same. Non-interventionism means not helping allies and not helping allies means you'll quickly become isolationist. If you do not help with a trade partner's affairs, the trade relationship deteriorates. Likewise, if you help a trade partner, in the future they will be more inclined to help you in a time of need. Both sides give a little to get a lot.

    Friendly diplomatic communication is a good thing (as long as it remains friendly) but talking sometimes doesn't work. That's what the big stick is for. ;)
     
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