Which is the best buy? I'm thinking the GTX 260

[trickson]

trickson,

Fair enough, I try not to go to in-depth with reviews as we don't know the test conditions or whether one card had a better revision of drivers etc. But speaking from general gossip on the forum, regardless of which card is faster or is better priced most people would say the 4850 performs Crysis maxed out without problems, why didn't your 4850 perform well like everyone else's product?

I'm actually fascinated to hear some stories from guys that own the ATI 4850, how well does it perform?

Do we have a ATI fan club thread? perhaps a few people in there could advise us better

I just do not know why this card did what it did . I never even got a chance to OC it ! Maybe like you said it was a bad card to begin with . I just dont know my computer stats are well beyond any thing Crysis could ever need but out of the box that card was not even as good as my 8800GT in SLI IMHO.
I can only give you what has been my experience and that is all I can do . I do not know any thing at all about the HD4870 and I bet that it is a great card but is it worth the risk to me ? NO I just don't want to have to go through that ever again . out of the BOX this GTX260 gave me nothing BUT WOW AFTER WOW !

You can look here and see what others were telling me and what I went with as well .
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=76591
then see what happened to me .

 

[Flyordie]

trickson,

Fair enough, I try not to go to in-depth with reviews as we don't know the test conditions or whether one card had a better revision of drivers etc. But speaking from general gossip on the forum, regardless of which card is faster or is better priced most people would say the 4850 performs Crysis maxed out without problems, why didn't your 4850 perform well like everyone else's product?

I'm actually fascinated to hear some stories from guys that own the ATI 4850, how well does it perform?

Do we have a ATI fan club thread? perhaps a few people in there could advise us better

 

[Wile E]

Not in my experience with the HD4850 he would only find that playing Crysis on high settings would be like playing a game as if it were a SLIDE SHOW ! yes even with my Q6600 clocked to 3.4 GHz it was lagging and stuttering I had to set the game to medium ! What good is that ? and war head would only run good with that card at mainstream Not gamer or Enthusiast !

I play crysis all high on my 4850 at stock speeds and 1920x1200 just fine. The problem wasn't because it's a 4850, the problem is that you had a bad 4850, or some other conflict. It completely and utterly embarrasses my 8800GT.

Vantage on air, pencil vmodded. http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dmv=548064

06 on water hard vmod, 1.4V (haven't run Vantage with the hard mod yet). http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1076834&postcount=436

 

[dpaul01]

260 SLI or HD4850x2

As prices drop, my options are increasing for my 1/09 build. Its starting to make sense to consider either a 4850x2 or 260/192 SLI setup, both in the $400 ish range.

Rather than get a 260/216 or 280 for $300 or $374 respectively, for a few bucks more I can get the x2 or SLI setups...any opinions?

 

[trickson]

the 280 SLI would be the better choice . No one should ever have to pencil mod any card so it will play a game JMHO .

 

[lemonadesoda]

Great discussion.

Thanks trickson, BloodTotal and Darren.

But what the discussion DOES SHOW is that performance (and good price deals) put the cards so close to each other in terms of performance AND price/performance that it is swings and roundabouts. At which point, brand loyalty, or features (like CUDA), or local availability (incl. upgrade programs) can be all that it takes to swing a buyer from product one to the other.

 

[trickson]

Personally I like Nvidia the facts are there more games use Physics than DX10.1 the fact that a 280GTX is still on GDDR3 and holding a lead over ATI's cards tells you some thing , The fact that Nvidia cards RUN WAY COOLER than ATI cards also tells me a lot . Price / performance Nvidia has them both IMHO .

 

[BloodTotal]

Same, I like Nvidia also, I always buy an Nvidia card, and watch ATI card owners sqeal ~ 7600 GT at the time and 8800GT at the time

 

[Wile E]

the 280 SLI would be the better choice . No one should ever have to pencil mod any card so it will play a game JMHO .

It's not about having to pencil mod it. It plays everything but Crysis and FC2 maxed out @ my res of 1920x1280. It's about achieving better than 4870 performance, for a much lower cash outlay.

Personally I like Nvidia the facts are there more games use Physics than DX10.1 the fact that a 280GTX is still on GDDR3 and holding a lead over ATI's cards tells you some thing , The fact that Nvidia cards RUN WAY COOLER than ATI cards also tells me a lot . Price / performance Nvidia has them both IMHO .

Yeah, but it's on a 512bit bus. ATI doesn't need a 512bit bus (which is much more expensive), because they have the benefit of GDDR5 (which is still cheaper than a 512bit bus, yet performs equal or better to it in terms of bandwidth).

And the ATI cards run hotter on purpose, in order to make them more silent. Turn the fan speeds up to nVidia's levels, and they are just as cool. My MSI card never got above 62C, even with it voltmoded to 1.3V.

 

[wolf]

just got a gigabyte stock clocked core 216

runs at 730/1475/2448

beefyest card ive ever owned, by a considerable amount, and thats having recently come from..

9800GTX...4870....8800GTX....

this card really does feel in another echelon at the above speeds, basically a stock GTX280 killer.

EDIT: also, runs really cool and quiet, much better than my 4870 and a tad quieter than the 9800GTX.

 

[trickson]

It's not about having to pencil mod it. It plays everything but Crysis and FC2 maxed out @ my res of 1920x1280. It's about achieving better than 4870 performance, for a much lower cash outlay.


Yeah, but it's on a 512bit bus. ATI doesn't need a 512bit bus (which is much more expensive), because they have the benefit of GDDR5 (which is still cheaper than a 512bit bus, yet performs equal or better to it in terms of bandwidth).

And the ATI cards run hotter on purpose, in order to make them more silent. Turn the fan speeds up to nVidia's levels, and they are just as cool. My MSI card never got above 62C, even with it voltmoded to 1.3V.

I disagree with you . Nvidia doesn't need to go to GDDR5 as of yet because they are still tapping out the full potential of GDDR3 , Having to cool off a nuclear reactor is just not my thing thank you , It also invites such things as component overheating ( CPU , RAM , Mobo , Sound card .. ) You can not control the fan speed when reformatting HDD's so this can cause red screens OF DEATH and lock up's as well .
sorry but I just think cooler out of the box is the way to go faster with out the nuclear reactor heat out put is better for me and for all the parts in my computer as well

 

[Jeffredo]

And the ATI cards run hotter on purpose, in order to make them more silent. Turn the fan speeds up to nVidia's levels, and they are just as cool. My MSI card never got above 62C, even with it voltmoded to 1.3V.

I seem to have read that the HD 4000 series (when they first were released - reference designs) ran both hotter and noisier than average.

 

[erocker]

just got a gigabyte stock clocked core 216

runs at 730/1475/2448

beefyest card ive ever owned, by a considerable amount, and thats having recently come from..

9800GTX...4870....8800GTX....

this card really does feel in another echelon at the above speeds, basically a stock GTX280 killer.

EDIT: also, runs really cool and quiet, much better than my 4870 and a tad quieter than the 9800GTX.

I have the same experience other than in GRID where the 4870 still walks all over the GTX260. I know for sure that the GTX2XX series is the card to get for playing GTAIV. I'm addicted to that game!

 

[johnnyfiive]

XFX GTX260 Black Edition is the best evar!

 

[Jeffredo]

XFX GTX260 Black Edition is the best evar!

It has some competition now son.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130428

 

[Triton.se]

I've seen some stupid forums posts elsewhere: "4850 beats a GTX260, 4870 beats a GTX280" - also "4870X2 beats one GTX280!" ....

if you play 1280x1024, a 4850 is OK, 4870 or GTX260 is fine.
1280x1024: SLI or single GTX260 makes not much of a differance, same fps...add a 8GHz cpu and you WILL see fps gain (200->300fps)
19x12: here u want more than 512MB mem, SLI or single....gee, the 8800 768MB models surely still rock after...3 years???

if I had the chance to hand pick cards today, I'd take two old GTX260's...got my 192SP 35% cheaper than the 216 core one..... my testing show 216SP clocks less (at orig bios) than 192SP, but it has more shader processors, so the max oc'd power is about the same.

For the SLI GTX260...i'm having too small monitor, 1680x1050 rez...Samsung will release a 23" 2048x1152 early january....there my bros will stretch their legs, and maybe when cards get old, I turn off anti alias: so small dots, maybe not so much differance.

With NVIDIA TOP and NEXT TOP (GTX280 and GTX260, 8800 GTX, 8800 Ultra and 8800 GTS etc) you get a quality product....cooling, noise is OK..... fast selling products don't have (4850, 8800GT etc)

 

[Wile E]

I disagree with you . Nvidia doesn't need to go to GDDR5 as of yet because they are still tapping out the full potential of GDDR3 , Having to cool off a nuclear reactor is just not my thing thank you , It also invites such things as component overheating ( CPU , RAM , Mobo , Sound card .. ) You can not control the fan speed when reformatting HDD's so this can cause red screens OF DEATH and lock up's as well .
sorry but I just think cooler out of the box is the way to go faster with out the nuclear reactor heat out put is better for me and for all the parts in my computer as well

No, nVidia chose not to go GDDR5 for fear that supply would have the same issues as GDDR4. Well, it doesn't. The 512bit bus with GDDR3 nVidia uses is more expensive than a 256bit bus with GDDR5. It was a gamble on their part. One that didn't pay off. ATI also did the 512bit bus with GDDR3 thing (HD2900), and it bit them in the ass too.

As far as heat, I know of no one personally that had stability problems with a 4850 with a stock fan profile. If anyone is having lock-ups or stability problems due to heat on their 4850, they either have a defective card, or their case's airflow (or lack thereof) is to blame. Yes, they run hot, but the fan only spins at some ridiculously low percentage like 18% until it gets really hot, and they only have a single slot cooler on reference designs. A 260 has a dual slot cooler.

Like I said, my MSI with a dual slot aluminum cooler (not even any heatpipes) topped out at 62C, and that was while running furmark. (20C ambients) The only problem with heat is the fan speeds, the gpu itself is not a very hot runner.

I seem to have read that the HD 4000 series (when they first were released - reference designs) ran both hotter and noisier than average.

Hotter, yes. Noisier, I don't know. I never heard that, but noise on video cards is not something I care about or pay attention to, as I have a water loop for my gfx card(s).

And if they are noisier, could you imagine how loud they would be with a more aggressive fan profile? All the more reason to keep the speed down. Most people don't like noise.

 

[PCpraiser100]

Does this answer EVERYONE's questions?

Now that we got that proved that HD 4870 pwns the GTX 260 with high-res at all games, lets see if we can get that verdict into trickson's head. Even if the GTX 260 outperms at lower resolutions, all of us are gonna be on high-def monitors soon anyway. And overclocking? We barely go nowhere until we decided to get aftermarket coolers to kill the warranty once we fry our cards.

Now I'm gonna go get some egg nog...

 

[wolf]

Does this answer EVERYONE's questions?

Now that we got that proved that HD 4870 pwns the GTX 260 with high-res at all games, lets see if we can get that verdict into trickson's head. Even if the GTX 260 outperms at lower resolutions, all of us are gonna be on high-def monitors soon anyway. And overclocking? We barely go nowhere until we decided to get aftermarket coolers to kill the warranty once we fry our cards.

Now I'm gonna go get some egg nog...

keep in mind with most core 216's its not at all an extreme over clock to achieve GTX280 actual performance, which in these benchmarks, leaves the 4870 in the dust.

for reference i currently have both a 4870 and a GTX260 core 216, the GTX is stock cooled, the 4850 is water cooled, i can only get the core on the 4870 from 750 to 815, wheras the GTX260 goes to 704/1404, considerably more mhz from stock.

 

[PCpraiser100]

keep in mind with most core 216's its not at all an extreme over clock to achieve GTX280 actual performance, which in these benchmarks, leaves the 4870 in the dust.

for reference i currently have both a 4870 and a GTX260 core 216, the GTX is stock cooled, the 4850 is water cooled, i can only get the core on the 4870 from 750 to 815, wheras the GTX260 goes to 704/1404, considerably more mhz from stock.

Its doesn't matter anyhow, the 4870 is probably a poor OC'er because of the memory bandwidth, there is so much going on in that RV770 that it's 256-bit interface can't take it temperature-wise. The GTX 260 has a 448-bit interface which is why it runs cool. What I'm trying to say wolf is that if the 4870 had something like a 512-bit interface, it will outclock and outperform the GTX 260. I bet the HD 2900XT can outclock it then with that water cooling solution of yours if it ever had a 55nm process. BTW, what program are you using to OC your 4870?

 

[wolf]

rivatuner....

sure if the 4870 had 512 bit it might outperform it, but its not like that now....

for ATi to go 512 bit they would either have to rework their ROPS, or make a beastly 32 ROPS card like the GTX280....

might happen on 40nm

in any case, owing both a 4870 and a GTX260, from my experiences (everything is overclocked to max stable) the GTX260 is far an away better. that comes from a min fps perspective, the GTX260 over clocked is a really hard card to slow down.

 

[Bigjohn]

rivatuner....

sure if the 4870 had 512 bit it might outperform it, but its not like that now....

for ATi to go 512 bit they would either have to rework their ROPS, or make a beastly 32 ROPS card like the GTX280....

might happen on 40nm

in any case, owing both a 4870 and a GTX260, from my experiences (everything is overclocked to max stable) the GTX260 is far an away better. that comes from a min fps perspective, the GTX260 over clocked is a really hard card to slow down.

nice info.
I'll be putting mine into my system on the day after christmas! Watercooled with a Swiftech MCW60 waterblock and heatsink.

 

[phanbuey]

Thats what i found too... i actually ordered both cards with the intnetion of RMAing the slower one. Once I OC'd that 260 to 729 core and 1512shaders, it visibly destroyed my 4870 at 810 core in every game (even in call of jaurez DX10, with 4x AA and 16XAF, the bench avg and min was way higher on the OC'd NV card than the OC'd 4870). I think AMD's crackhead driver dept had alot to do with it tho...

that time NV drivers had been coming out with some substantial performance gains - when i first got my 4870 i actually had to dig through the AMD website to find a 'hotfix' that supported my card when there should have been a huge, F&!k off, red button that said 4870 DRIVERS. I have a sneaking suspicion that AMD could squeeze alot more out of the 4870 1GB and the 4870X2 if they would write better drivers. Which i doubt they will.

 

[Wile E]

Thats what i found too... i actually ordered both cards with the intnetion of RMAing the slower one. Once I OC'd that 260 to 729 core and 1512shaders, it visibly destroyed my 4870 at 810 core in every game (even in call of jaurez DX10, with 4x AA and 16XAF, the bench avg and min was way higher on the OC'd NV card than the OC'd 4870). I think AMD's crackhead driver dept had alot to do with it tho...

that time NV drivers had been coming out with some substantial performance gains - when i first got my 4870 i actually had to dig through the AMD website to find a 'hotfix' that supported my card when there should have been a huge, F&!k off, red button that said 4870 DRIVERS. I have a sneaking suspicion that AMD could squeeze alot more out of the 4870 1GB and the 4870X2 if they would write better drivers. Which i doubt they will.

I don't doubt they will. The 2900 took a while to get to it's max potential.