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Which storage medium is better for gaming - BluRay or flash?

Discussion in 'Games' started by vawrvawerawe, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. vawrvawerawe

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    Do you think by PS5 time disc-based data will be deprecated, and when you buy a game you'll be buying a small flash card (kind of like SD card or something similar, maybe something proprietary)?
  2. patrico

    patrico

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    more likely a download, dont think theyll go back to carts/cards for gaming & dvds will always be cheaper then memory chips, well thats my 2 cent
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  3. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    flash media is clearly superior for speeds, but disc formats are harder to pirate and cheaper to produce.

    next gen consoles will be a mix of bluray and DRM encrypted downloads.
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  4. ste2425

    ste2425

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    I wish we still used carts, can't beat having to blow it to start the game properly, plus on my N64, and all other cart based consoles ive played for that matter, no loading screens. Champion.
  5. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse Crazy Dogmatic Bullsh!t!

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    I guess games out grew the capacity of a cart - Might be fine for all the handheld 'gameboy' consoles out there since devs dont need to mess with hi-def textures and other stuff due to the small screen size and the games are probably small enough to fit on one cart or memory card.

    sadly with nintendo all they seem to release are rehashes of mario/wario, donkey kong, Zelda, Metroid & pokemon games and i guess they've got good at fitting everything on a memory card/cart
  6. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    No, for one simple reason and the same reason why game cartridges (read-only equivalents of flash memory, really) were killed: DRM. The laser etching equipment publishers use is multi-million dollar stuff that can't really be duplicated (think money presses). This is why you can spot a fake disk easily. Flash memory is too easy to copy (read: pirate) and there's no technical means to prevent it.

    Let's also not forget that disks are much cheaper to mass produce than flash memory so the forces of economics are at play too.

    I think the internet will replace disks eventually. The only reason why they haven't for consoles yet is because Sony, Nintendo, nor Microsoft want to commit to digital distribution in the way that Valve and CD-Projekt has. I think market forces will force them to eventually.


    The reason why handheld devices have been predominantly ROMs is because of the problems associated with keeping a disk spinning while the device may be in motion. Motors also take more power than ROMs and they require substantially more space in the device than a ROM port of some kind. The only advantage disks have in that scenario is mass production costs.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
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    Crunching for Team TPU
  7. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse Crazy Dogmatic Bullsh!t!

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    the 1st & 2nd gen psp's were amazing thanks for asking (PSP-1000/3000)
  8. MxPhenom 216

    MxPhenom 216 Corsair Fanboy

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    Nope, everything is going digital download. There will come a time when physical copies of software will be non-existent.
  9. ste2425

    ste2425

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    I understand the capacity problem in the N64's era and older but surely now capacity isn't a problem and rom's are much cheaper to manufacture then they were?
  10. Blue-Knight

    Blue-Knight

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    Nothing of this will prevent pirating, 100% sure...
  11. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Not because of UMD.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  12. Blue-Knight

    Blue-Knight

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    Blu-ray.

    Why? I don't want my game data to disappear from flash after "x" seconds/hours/years.

    Not to mention the flash durability, which sucks. They say it can last xK read/write cycles and that it could last years, but I've experienced that it's far from reality and they always die much before that (way before).

    Happy New Year!
  13. de.das.dude

    de.das.dude Pro Indian Modder

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    OMG the troll is back!
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  14. Blue-Knight

    Blue-Knight

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    That's not trolling, just my experience with flash memory.

    Nothing can stop a disappointed consumer.
  15. de.das.dude

    de.das.dude Pro Indian Modder

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    did i quote your post :confused:

    i am referring to OP. he is a troll all his threads are weird.
  16. Blue-Knight

    Blue-Knight

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    Well, we all make mistakes sometimes... :D
  17. lilhasselhoffer

    lilhasselhoffer

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    You've got to be kidding me. The "Next Gen"consoles, assuming they aren't just computers, aren't going to use physical media. The simple answer is that physical media offers less controls, and a high cost to manufacture. A digital download can be controlled through DRM and costs virtually nothing to maintain availability for years.

    Think about it from the perspective of the publishers and the console manufacturers. Every single disc has to be pressed, packaged, shipped, and placed where consumers can buy them. This means that any disc sitting on a shelf costs the manufacturer a couple of bucks just to get there. On top of that, shelf space is limited, and games rapidly get the boot. This effectively means that discs, or other physical media, have a very short window to be visible, make a profit, and be relegated to the bargain bin.

    A digital store has 0 investment in physical locations (servers don't have to be in population centers), no limitation on how long it can be sold, and the seller basically gets to keep the usage terms to whatever they want. Valve got in on this early via Steam. EA copied the methodology with Origin. Windows 8, Google, and Apple have their respective digital stores. They can effectively control pricing, while taking away the consumers rights to resale. It's a win win for them.

    Heck, MS tried to do this already with the Xbox One. They introduced what was functionally a tethered PC, without explaining how this could be good for consumers. That particular mindset, where consumers will buy anything you put out, is toxic to the industry. MS is trying it again, if rumors were to be believed, with the cheaper disc-drive free Xbox One. This confirms that the days where you buy physical media are numbered. In 7 years (if previous generation life cycles persist) you'll be crazy not to switch to the media free console. I hate it, because I don't see console manufacturers maintaining backwards compatibility. GOG for consoles isn't something I can see happening. Frankly though, the games that sell the most might well be the ones with annual releases which make backwards compatibility not particularly worthwhile. Forced online connectivity, with a required community component, means games can only die a slow death as the community moves onward.
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  18. vawrvawerawe

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    Actually, discs do have a life span, and it is very short compared to flash memory. According to the official BluRay website, BluRay discs have a 10-15 year life span.
    http://www.blu-raydisc.com/en/aboutblu-ray/whatisblu-raydisc/bdkeycharacteristics.aspx

    Compare this to flash memory, which is only getting longer and longer.
    In 2009, a record was achieved with 1 million write cycles. (link)
    Only 3 years later, in 2012, 100 million write cycles was achieved. This is 100 times the life span in only 3 years. (link)

    For reference, 1 million cycles, on the low end, will last approximately 27 years according to this article. For moderate use, that could multiple by as much as 10 times or more. Assume moderate use at 10 times 27 years, 1 million write cycles will last 270 years, whereas 100 million will last 27,000 years. For high use, current technology puts it at 2,700 years. (27 years was only for 1 million which was years ago, because it's now more than 100 million write cycles). Also keep in mind that 100 million cycles was a couple years ago. We might be at 10 billion cycles by next year, which for moderate use will be 2,700,000 (2.7 MILLION) years.

    This means that currently, BluRay discs will last little more than a decade; whereas flash memory can last as much as 30 millenniums, and this is multiplying exponentially every year.

    Moreover, even if you don't use a BluRay disc, it will continue to degrade. Flash memory on the other hand will not degrade and if left unused will last practically forever.

    In any event, you can go through many BluRay discs in one lifetime and have lost them all; but flash will last more generations than you can count, with zero data loss.

    In conclusion, flash memory is far better and will last far longer than BluRay, and "far longer" is an understatement.
    (Let's say far far far far far far far far ... far far far far ... etc etc. longer)
    Well actually, perhaps the only reason that physical media still exists and will IMO always exist is because there is just something about as a consumer having the thing you purchased physically in your hand. And being able to store a collection of things you purchased where you can see it.

    Let me elaborate by expressing that I have not, nor will ever, buy a digital download on a PS3/PS4 game. I will always buy it in physical form. I am sure many (or perhaps most) other people feel the same way.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  19. Blue-Knight

    Blue-Knight

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    That's more than flash memory...
  20. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    and in what world was flash memory cheaper than a DVD?

    the kind of performance you need for a game wont be met by an old 8GB USB 2.0 flash drive with impressive 10MB/s read speeds...
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  21. broken pixel

    broken pixel

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    A massive floppy disk array. :)
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  22. de.das.dude

    de.das.dude Pro Indian Modder

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    stone tablets.
  23. lilhasselhoffer

    lilhasselhoffer

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    I didn't say I liked the idea of a 100% digital distribution model. In fact, I think the idea will contribute to a severe recession in the gaming industry.

    EA has paved the way for "pay me money, and you have the rights to utilize my software service unless I see fit to take it away from you" model. Don't believe me, then you should seriously consider reading that EULA you click through. The first company to go belly-up in digital distribution will have to settle some dangerous questions. Do consumers get the rights to their digital content, as if it was physical? Do any of the consumer purchases travel when hardware is changed? What becomes of games when server support is pulled? None of these issues have an easy solution, and more importantly the precedent will determine how the industry responds in the future.

    Whether we like it or not, the age of physical media is passing. We already know that discs can't last anywhere near as long as carts. We know that more money can be made by removing the physical retailers from the distribution equation. Our only real question is when will most people have cheap and reliable high speed internet. That will determine when the always online console is the "only" solution. Until that day, consumers have the reasonable assumption that their consoles will be useable anywhere, which currently requires physical media.
  24. Steevo

    Steevo

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    I have games that say you are wrong. Nintendo games for example. There will be internet available emulators by the time ROM dies, I have all my old game systems, and yet play ROM's on emulators that use a whole 10% of one core of my CPU and 2% of the low power state of my GPU.
    10 Million points folded for TPU
  25. Blue-Knight

    Blue-Knight

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    I'm always wrong, nem quero ouvir...

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