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Who'll be the better president?

Discussion in 'TPU Frontpage Polls' started by W1zzard, Oct 1, 2008.

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Who'll be the better president?

Poll closed Oct 6, 2008.
  1. Barack Obama

    1,290 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. John McCain

    333 vote(s)
    14.9%
  3. But I want George W. Bush

    177 vote(s)
    7.9%
  4. Don't care

    429 vote(s)
    19.2%
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  1. Bigjohn

    Bigjohn New Member

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    You could not be more wrong. They disagree on MUCH... Very much.

    McCain is more of a centrist than Bush...
  2. Apocolypse007

    Apocolypse007 New Member

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    When McCain votes with Bush on 4/5 ratio, I would say his views are very much like Bush's.
    FudFighter and Odin Eidolon say thanks.
  3. Polaris573

    Polaris573 Senior Moderator

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    For those of you willing to do homework before voting rather than parroting CNN and Fox News soundbytes here is a website I found extremely informative and useful. It also provides useful information on your congressional members as well, because if you are from a small town like I am then accurate information on them is almost non-existent in your local newspaper.

    http://www.votesmart.org/
  4. bigenuffumbrella New Member

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    Respectfully,

    All my sources were quoted at the end of my post. I don't have time to respond to each and every rebut you made (which is why I posted my sources ;) ) lunch isn't that long. I merely threw these out to give my opinion and to stir the puddin a little. :)

    I will say this though in response to two of your statements that caught my eye:

    1 . Taxes are necessary for running a country. A country without taxes would be a shitty one indeed.

    I admit taxes are a necessary evil, but if you don't feel like the government get's enough of your pay check already then I'm sorry I can't help you. The lower the taxes the more the government actually collects because people spend more when they have more of their own money to spend. It's a proven concept...and one that JFK embraced himself as he was the last Democratic president who actually lowered taxes.

    2. I don't know how you can state someone's refusal to give everyone national health care to be a good thing.
    Two points here -- 1. How are we going to pay for it? and 2. National health care means government run health care. The government does two things well: collect taxes, and blow shit up. Everything else they suck at. If you'd like to get a glimpse of what hospitals will look like under a national health care plan---go visit a veterans hospital and take a good look. THAT'S what life will be like when health care providers no longer need to compete.

    Again, I'm only trying to share my opinion and stir up the debate. I realize the position I hold is unpopular in this forum and I did not come here looking for a fight...only to contribute with my thoughts and to share as much as I am able in the time I have to post-- things the way I see them.

    BigE

  5. thoughtdisorder

    thoughtdisorder New Member

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    Very well put.:)

    I've often wondered what would happen if one day every voter in the US woke up and cut their Republican and Democrat voter ID's in half, then registered as an Independent. We could remove a lot of corruption and "fat cats" from Washington with just that simple action. (IMO)
  6. mdm-adph

    mdm-adph New Member

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    Cool -- now I'm a European. Thanks! :laugh:
    I can't even begin to describe what's wrong with thinking like this. Try putting down the Ayn Rand books once in a while. ;)

    Taxes are not theft. Please stop thinking that. Taxes are willingly paid. Theft is not willing. As most Americans continue to pay their taxes without staging an armed rebellion (which you've done in the past), I assume they're okay with the present level of taxation.

    And oh yeah -- Benjamin Franklin and the founders of the Constitution were okay with taxation. It's all in there. Simply saying that "taxation is theft" is very simplistic thinking.

    Thank you for that wonderful site.

    If you were to go into a US veterans hospital, you know what you'd find? People receiving health care, without having to fork over money for a bill afterwards.

    I think a lot of Americans would love to have that, no matter how sparse or "terrible" the care is.
  7. iStink

    iStink New Member

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    I get like 10 emails a day from assholes who spam for mccain talking about how obama will ruin the country and he won't solve anything. Then they say stuff like "We need your support NOW more than ever!" and I think to myself OF COURSE they need my support NOW, election time is around the corner. My support isn't gonna be much help AFTER election is it? It's that kind of annoying bs that makes me want to vote for obama.
  8. trt740

    trt740

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    Hope Obama does get elected because then America will get what it deserves and maybe then they will do their home work, next time, before they elect a activist exstremist to the white house.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
  9. bigenuffumbrella New Member

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    Dude I'm sorry...I can't help you. You have absolutely no concept of liberty. Zero. I don't mean that to be offensive...it's just seems you're conditioned to think that the government is a good thing. More government is NEVER a good thing. It was true 232 years ago, it's true today, and it will be true 232 years from now: "That government is best which governs least." --Thomas Paine.

    Also...the United States is not a Democracy. It is a Republic. The idea of Democracy was sickening to our founding fathers--read ANYTHING on the subject by Jefferson, Adams and specifically Ben Franklin. Really read it...look it up...don't just take what you've "heard" --or even what I've said as the way things are...look at what they wrote and read for yourself. Big John's earlier quote was right on:
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. --Ben Franklin​

    Democracy is mob rule. The word "Democracy" appears NO WHERE in the Bill or Rights or the Constitution. <--check that fact out. NO WHERE. We live in a "democratic society"--small d--in the sense that we all have inalienable rights and the right to free speech...but our form of government is NOT a Democracy.

    On taxes: Taxes are NEVER "willingly" paid. The are taken...from its citizens by the government by means of force. IE if you don't pay or pay enough you go to jail...doesn't sound like a very willing payment plan to me.

    Did you know that this country was founded by a bunch of men who decided to rebel against the greatest super power on Earth...and one of their reasons was taxation? Did you know that the level of those taxes, even taking into consideration inflation, value of the pound, etc was a mere FRACTION of what we pay in taxes right now?

    Taxes are never willingly paid. Let me rephrase...at least I'M never happy about it. If you are, God bless you...if it gives you a thrill you can pay my share too. ;)

    Personally I feel like I can spend my money more wisely that Washington can. But that's just me.

  10. Duxx Guest


    Unfortunately I only get one "Thank" button. Very Very well said, nobody ever realizes that this is a republic and not a democracy, glad there are a few more out there :)
  11. proletariandan New Member

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    Property (more accurately, expropriated surplus value from private ownership of strategic capital) is theft...taxes are just a way for the more enlightened bourgeoisie to finance an army (among other things) to defend their property, their empire, and keep social revolution at bay.

    The reality is that there are many, many more sheep than wolves, and it is the wolves who have run this country, fleecing the working class for 232 years. It should be no surprise the wolves have always been afraid of democracy.

    Democracy and plutocracy are the only options; plutocracy was viable until it created and educated its own executioners - its time is running out.
    Odin Eidolon says thanks.
  12. Polaris573

    Polaris573 Senior Moderator

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  13. Sc1mitar New Member

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    Firstly, im a canadian.

    I have a small business, and i can tell you this.

    The less f*ckin government involvement the better. The lower the taxes the better. Work hard, make your money, enjoy life. Dont be a suck living on gov. assistance cause your ass is too lazy to get a job.

    On public healthcare:
    public healthcare is great, as long as you are young. As soon as you get older, like 65+, they dont give a fck, because youve already paid them your taxes, then its w/e you can go die. thats what happened to my grandfather, so we flew him out to indiannapolis, and then South Cali for private treatment, which was like right the fck now available, none of this 3 month waiting bullshit we have here.

    Why would anyone want a lieing f*ck to run their lives and take their money away is beyond me. Stay away from me Mr politician, i dont want nothing to do w/ you, unless your giving me back some of the moneys ya took.

    On that matter, i dont think any of those bastard politicians are good for us. But id vote for the republicans cause atleast they seem to be able to understand free market policy, not this socialist bullsht we have here in Canada.


    to all the naysayers, dont worry.
    someone once said;
    if your 20 and not a socialist, you dont have a heart
    if your 40 and not a conservative, you dont have a brain

    dont remember but that is about as true as it gets.


    -sc1m


    ps: they rlly need to build some nuclear powerplants, srsly. nothing like cheap electricity.
    trt740 and Bigjohn say thanks.
  14. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I love how Nader uses the term "Wall Street Crooks" :laugh:
  15. mdm-adph

    mdm-adph New Member

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    Why are the two concepts of taxation and liberty mutually exclusive in your mind? I don't know if I can help you... :ohwell:

    (Good lord -- 90% of your post was basically a big discussion about what is or is not a "democracy." I don't care what you call the government -- "democracy," "republic," -- who cares? We're talking about taxes... I think.)

    "A bunch of men who decided to rebel against the greatest super power on Earth," and thus formed their own country, and immediately set about taxing the hell out of its citizens. :laugh:

    What's your point?

    Did you go to school? You enjoyed the benefits of taxation.

    Do you drive on roads? You enjoy the benefits of taxation.

    Do you enjoy the Internet? You enjoy the benefits of taxation. :laugh:

    Buddy, if you don't want to be taxed, you're more than welcome to go build you a little shack out of logs in the woods somewhere, and live off the grid. Just make sure to stay there and leave the rest of civilization alone.

    Taxes are willingly paid -- you pay them by virtue of working and earning wages. If you don't want to get taxed -- stop working. Live in a cave. Kill badgers for food.

    I can't think of one civilization that hasn't survived through some sort of taxation. :confused:

    ...and if you're 50 and haven't learned that the right answer is a healthy mix of both, then you're hopeless. :laugh:
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  16. Nitro-Max

    Nitro-Max New Member

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    I think most of the world will be watching how this plays out and who they want as president even though they cant vote America has such a big role and influence on the rest of the world i think everyone has there ideas about who should be president after all negotitations on gas prices for the usa has effects on how much we british pay and we already pay way way more.
    Plus the fact that we are close allies and i think well have to work together for some time yet.
    The arctic is unclaimed territory and as more land is been revealed by melting snow/ice the more countrys are becoming interested in it because of the natural resources it will have to offer russia has already put a claim to part of it and i think so has the usa bet your life china will follow suite so there could end up being another war over that pretty soon.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
  17. pepsi71ocean New Member

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    IMO Obama is all smoke and Mirrors, He is a very charismatic, able to get a huge crowd to follow him, however he is full of hot air.

    People forget that he is a preecher, and you should read up on his wifes college thesis, its quite racist from what i can read.

    What scares me the most is when he went to iraq and afganistan for 2 weeks, and was quotes as saying that the military is unbalanced and we need more equal numbers of citizen to military, in terms of African Americans/ Latinos to Whites, and let me tell you "How do you get more white boys to join the military? you don't you draft them.



    I think the bill is a total waste. this is the last thing that we need is to bury our selves into more debt, let Darwin Economics follow through, let the weak banks die, and let the strong survive, the market must correct its self by its self, otherwise its a bandied fix to a bigger problem.


    My dad make more than 200,000 a year, and if OBAMA wins he will have to let 2 or 3 employees go, because the taxes that obama will implement on both his corporate and personal income will be a lot. He has a company with over 40 full time employees, this is what obama will do, destroy the economics because he fails to understand that the people who make more than 200,000 a year often are business owners and they control economics more than he can. Raising corporate taxes are not going to help with, but send more jobs overseas.

    In terms of heath care its really sucks, but how is Obama going to pay for health care when the country is out of budget enough as it is, adding another 800 million/billion etic to the federal budget isn't going to help.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
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  18. mdm-adph

    mdm-adph New Member

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    ...and the thread is Godwinnned. Thanks for playing, everyone -- mods, feel free to lock the thread.
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  19. pepsi71ocean New Member

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    what does that mean, im confused
  20. mdm-adph

    mdm-adph New Member

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    Read the link. It means when someone has to make a comparison involving Hitler or the German Nazi's, then there's nothing left to talk about and a discussion thread is basically over.
  21. pepsi71ocean New Member

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    i did read it, but its literature was confusing, and the article wasn't making sense i couldn't draw a comparison, so i edited my original post for wording.
  22. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    If he takes your advice, he better not move to Wisconsin.
    He'll be in jail in a heartbeat.
  23. mdm-adph

    mdm-adph New Member

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    One of the many places where I and environmentalists differ. I couldn't care less about badgers, or horned and spotted owls. :D
  24. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    This being a discussion thread to the "weekly poll", there's no way it's going to get locked, at least not until the next poll comes up. However, any nonsensical posts would bring in infractions galore. So if there's nothing worthwhile to post, don't.
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  25. mdm-adph

    mdm-adph New Member

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    You know that was a joke about closing the thread, right? ;) Godwin's Law isn't a law of nature, or anything.

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