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Who'll be the better president?

Discussion in 'TPU Frontpage Polls' started by W1zzard, Oct 1, 2008.

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Who'll be the better president?

Poll closed Oct 6, 2008.
  1. Barack Obama

    1,290 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. John McCain

    333 vote(s)
    14.9%
  3. But I want George W. Bush

    177 vote(s)
    7.9%
  4. Don't care

    429 vote(s)
    19.2%
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  1. Odin Eidolon

    Odin Eidolon New Member

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    i know the discussion wasnt really correct in the last pages, but maybe its time to get back on topic. In a civil way, and without insults and flaming. i know we can do it :D

    i'll point out a fact that should have some significance in this forum. McCain admitted he doesnt even know how to turn on a computer. How could he run such a great country without understanding most of the economical and environmental problems of this world?
  2. TUngsten

    TUngsten

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    Now there's a gross generalization that isn't even remotely accurate...
  3. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry, my US politics must be a bit messed up...... I thought GW was a Republican and that he had been in office almost 8 years and for most of that time, your financial institutes have been lending almost anybody much more than they could ever afford to repay, culminating in what might be the worst financial/economic crisis since the depression?
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  4. SK-1

    SK-1

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    From what I have read, Liberals sued to give big loans to low income people that could never pay it back. I thought this was the center of the issue.

    And what the hell is ACORN?
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  5. TUngsten

    TUngsten

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    I think it bizarre that folks want to blame Clinton for a bill that was passed through a congress completely controlled by Newt Gingrich and the Republicans...

    The liberals sued for lenders to treat minorities fairly, as there was bigotry and prejudice against lending money to blacks, latinos, etc. though they had the same qualifications (or lack thereof) as white folks. Pretty fair, huh?

    There has been absolutely no statistical correlation between any ethnic or minority group and the current mortgage crisis. Lack of oversight led to an equal opportunity for anyone to borrow more than they could afford, primarily through ARMs and the promise of the ability to refinance later when the value of the home had increased in value as it surely would. There are plenty of folks who bought $400,000 homes when they could only afford $250k, so it's not as if this is a "dumb poor minority folks" only problem.
  6. niko084

    niko084

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    Ok, lets take a step back... I don't know why I pay federal income tax to start with....

    We were never supposed to have a federal tax! We were supposed to make the majority of our income from exporting and importing taxes....

    Then the slackers did free import/export with north America, and then china which has lead us pretty much straight to the point we are now at... And that's pretty much a fact, it would simply be impossible for the top 1% richest people in our country to get more and more rich and not have the economy collapse...

    Pretty sad that in this country the richest 1% of the people posses something like 90% of the countries money, and what does it do? It sits in banks and adds 0's to the end to cure SPS...
  7. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Doesent Saudi Arabia own about 20% of the US?........sorry I need to phrase that better, about 20% of it's business/commerce.
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  8. trt740

    trt740

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    Um no!!! LOL!!!! Once again this :laugh: Old Monkey Brit gives me a case of the red ass, time to apply more powder:eek:


    [​IMG] Description


    Ideal for butt busting activities such as truck driving, motorcycling, bicycling, horse back riding, and extreme sports. May also be applied inside footwear, under sports pads, and other areas prone to chafing. Indoors or outdoors, work or play, or on occasions when you sit on your butt all day, don’t let your buns get red, use Anti Monkey Butt Powder instead!

    Details


    Ya know I love ya Tatty but man my ass itches when your on a thread talking crazy. :D please don't kill me in any special forces manuver for this.


    P.S to all mods tatty is my bestfriend on this forum, this is joke but don't tell him. Because he won't have his glasses on and is so old he won't be able to read this part, hence the small print lol!!!
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2008
  9. DaedalusHelios

    DaedalusHelios

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    MSD ignition and MSD coil packs do a great job. Far better than OEM and no the pulleys don't cause a problem. It only makes it drive better than before the pulleys. Throttle response etc on a lightweight car with mods is great without burning up to much gas. Import tuners of Civics and the like, know what I am talking about.


    Anit-Liberal propaganda is everywhere.
    ACORN is far more reputable than United Way.


    They own that much of the assets in america according to some estimates. I am not so sure about the business/commerce or if its 100% accurate.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2008
  10. newconroer

    newconroer

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    Maybe because they aren't ready to hand the country(while in it's absurdly fragile state)over to a man who is the epitomy of a politician.
    When he was on the air doing a duo interview, with Alan Keyes - Keyes was his normal self, although a bit calmer it seemed. People don't like Alan because he's a so called 'extremist,' but really I think they just don't like what he's saying. He speaks his mind, and throws all that 'public servant' nonsense out the window. If he doesn't like gays, and clearly he doesn't, by God he's going to say it, and good for him. Forget the content or the context, at least there's a man who comes right out and SPEAKS to people; problem is, they just don't want to listen. Fine so be it. But move over to Obama, and here's your people's politician. When asked about his religion and the institution of civil union or 'marriage' for homosexuals, he acts like a Nazi spindoctor. He starts out playing the honesty card, where he tells you that he is a man of faith (careful though not to say WHICH faith...) and that in HIS faith, only a man and a woman can be married in holy matrimony. So at this point, some people are holding their breath, wondering if he's about to go into some religious banter like Alan Keyes does, or ..... but nope, instead he raises his finger and says "however, however...as a public servant it is my duty.." and then prattles on about upholding peoples so called 'rights.' So right there, he tried to cater to the people, by seeming to be honest, giving you a little piece of his personal take and beliefs, but even if you disagree with his beliefs, he can salvage and turn your opinion around, by proceeding to state that his duty as a civil servant transcends his personal beliefs, and consequentley his 'faith.'

    And to me...that is what every other politician does. They don't stand up for what they believe in, for what you believe in, they stand up for what the mob believes in. Mobocracy = democracy. Ever since the united States fell from the status of a republic, it's been all down hill.

    As previously mentioned, you may not agree with Mr. Keyes, but at least he just tells you what he thinks; Obama however, is just full of it. And last time I checked, he's a supposed Christian, and in the Christian faith NOTHING, absolutley nothing comes before your faith and the Christian God - not politics, not other people, not your 'civil duty,' nothing.

    I don't agree with McCain on a lot of things. You Americans already hammered the nail in your coffin a bit deeper when you let Ron Paul fall away from the primary, but at least McCain is LESS of a politician, and that's always a good thing.

    Furthering the Ron Paul comment; I found it extremely awe-inspiring, that so many of the American youth were 'hip' to what Ron Paul was saying and offering. They are old enough and bright enough to understand the repercussions of unsound financing, non-free markets and a dying economy. It is THEIR future they are concerned about, and rightfully so. Their interests were ECONOMY ECONOMY ECONOMY;(and the road to fixing the economy ultimatley involves ending the war...). But then in the same moment I am very dis-heartened at all the rest of the people, the power voters, and the ethnic groups, who continue to perpetuate the a-typical 'two party system;' where in the end, they are voting based on the candidates race, and their plethora of petty issues like gay marriage, or immigration, which is not a petty issue, but what's petty is how the candidates 'dance' around it, as to not piss anyone off...as I said "politicians."



    Though, in the end, what does it matter?
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2008
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  11. Bigjohn

    Bigjohn

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    INCORRECT.
    McCain admited he does not USE a computer. The injuries to his arms and shoulders, the ones that were inflicted by the VC during his capture, make it very painful for him to "keyboard". But he sure can if he wants to... Of course, you're relying on crap from the socialist media...
  12. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually Tom, in this case, I think you might find I am not that far off, as for my red ass.....I need something for the itch!
  13. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I am not too sure on the exact figures, there was a programme on TV over here about a year ago that went into some detail.
  14. trt740

    trt740

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    okay learn something new everyday. :D
  15. Bigjohn

    Bigjohn

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    Acorn is a group of "community organizers" who organized the boycotts and suits... and to date they've been involved in voter fraud 6 time already this year (registering democrats... tomb stones, illegal aliens, etc...) OH, and Barak was a leader in ACORN...:roll:
  16. trt740

    trt740

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    propaganda, made up by conservatives, lies all lies, I tell you , give me a source no give me two, lies I say sent out by Fox News and G.W to smear B.O. . Just because it's the truth doesn't mean I believe it. After all we have to have a black president to make up for all the things that were done to their great grand parents and because we owe them. I mean do you get it, he speaks well and looks smooth, heck even Europe likes him. It doesn't matter to me thats hes a racist and hasn't balance more than a check book , he can fix the campaign mess his own campaign finance manage helped start, can't he. Hell if hes good enough for Hamas, The weathermen, ACORN, Saul Alinsky, William Aryes, Lewis Farrakan , Rev Wright how can he be all bad with this company how.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HahW5Qd_-7o&feature=related Hero mayor Rudy Giuliani of New Yorks during 911 speaks about Barrak Obamas voting record and experience I'm sure this was made up or edited even though it world for word on tape.

    Bill Clinton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t4glqu9OfM

    Joe Biden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMYty1PgHEg about Mccain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjAs4vtc1w


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYrUkvAcoss&feature=related
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2008
  17. CyberVisions New Member

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    That's the most ridiculous (well, one of the most) statements I've seen here. Clinton and Gore reaped the benefits of Bush Sr.'s Presidency - everyone (except you, obviously) knows that Presidential policy effects aren't seen until their second term - Clinton took over in what would of been his second term. And just what did Clinton and Gore do? They dismantled our National Security apparatus to the point that 9/11 happened. And don't you even try to pin that on W - He wasn't in office long enough to even start repairing the damage that Clinton and Gore caused.

    The reason for the banks and insurance? Congressional Democrats who refused to vote on any reforms that negate anything that Bill Clinton did during his terms, including the repeal of the one safeguard put in place by Franklin D. Roosevelt (Glass-Steagall) to prevent the very thing that's happening now:

    http://tinyurl.com/2r7mje

    Read it if you can stomach the truth instead of propaganda lies. You can thank your "Rhodes Scholar" buddy Clinton for that - of course if you listen to he media and the Democratic spin, they had absolutely nothing to do with it, even though they've been in control of Congress for more years since WWII than the Republicans.

    A lot of you have kept repeating Democratic propaganda by blaming Bush and the Republicans for the Fannie/Freddie fiasco. It was Clinton in '99 who repealed the Glass/Steagall act the fueled the meltdown - Clinton himself recently admitted on ABC that it was the Democrats who were to blame for it, not the Republicans. Bush himself 17 times during his administration has tried to get Congress to enact controls on Fannie/Freddie, and McCain has been a vocal critic as well of its mismanagement. Everyone seems to want to forget that the Democrats have been in control of Congress the last 2 years.

    "The longest and greatest period of peace and prosperity"? What fantasy world have you been living in, Oz? You obviously fell asleep or skipped class during history that day, or skipped history altogether.

    Here are some noteworthy dates in Clinton and Gore's "period of peace and prosperity":

    October 3-4, 1993 - Battle of Mogadishu, Somalia - (portrayed in "Blackhawk Down). Clinton should've never authorized such a stupid mission, but that just shows what happens when a President with no military experience tries to play Commander in Chief. Of course Kennedy wasn't much better at the Bay of Pigs. The only experience Obama has is that he's the first candidate in history to have so many death threats against him that for the first time in its history, the Secret Service has asked the FBI for assistance because they can't track them all. So maybe he'll get "combat experience" after all.

    June 26, 1993 - Clinton launches 23 Tomahawks at Iraq for the plot against President Bush (Sr), calling it "an attack against the country". Wars have been declared for less, but for Clinton, Tomahawks are good enough. No wonder Saddam laughed.

    June 25, 1996 - Khobar Towers Bombing (accurately portrayed in "The Kingdom" for those of you who like movies rather than real history. This one at least gets it right.) Anyone who watches this movie and still believes we shouldn't be in the Middle East needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror, or at the back end of a horse.

    Aug. 7, 1998 - US Embassy Attack in Nairobi
    Aug. 7, 1998 - US Embassy Attack in Tanzania
    How does Clinton respond? By lobbing Tomahawks at unimportant suspected Al-Qaeda facilities. Wow, how "Presidential". I'll bet Obama would use his intellect to send a strongly worded letter of caution to his namesake Osama.

    December 16 to December 19, 1998 - Operation Desert Fox, Clinton's 4 day bombing of Iraq to force regime change. Yeah, that worked...

    March 24, 1999 - June 20, 1999 - Operation Allied Force - Clinton authorizes US forces to participate in NATO bombing of Yugoslavia (Kosovo), naming US General Wesley Clark as SAC NATO. Genocide (excuse me, "Ethnic Cleansing" - there's so much difference) is really "peaceful and prosperous".

    October 12, 2000 - USS Cole Attack - Terrorists on an explosives laden raft come up to the Cole in Yemen, after the CO goes against his gut feeling and listens to his CMC and pulls into Yemen to refuel. Bad move.

    Clinton/Gore rank with Carter/Mondale and Kennedy/Johnson as the absolute worst Foreign Policy administrations this country has ever seen. He could've launched decisive attacks that could've prevented 9/11, but true to liberal form, he held back hoping "diplomacy" would work.

    And Gore - yeah , a real statesman. The only reason Kennedy was elected in '60 was because Joseph Kennedy bought enough votes for him to get him elected over Nixon. Nixon knew this, but even Nixon wasn't petty and low enough to whine and take it to the Supreme Court like Gore did. Democrats still whine about the 2000 election, even though the final vote tally was in Bush's favor. He clearly won, yet the Democrats and media would have everyone believe otherwise because they just can't accept and deal with the truth. Just like Fidel Obama and idolizers.

    Oh, yeah, and Gore's "Inconvenient Truth"? The one "Inconvenient Truth" that Gore fails to mention in his great documentary presentation is the inconvenient fact that leftist environmentalists have played a huge part in Global Warming since they're the ones who have consistently argued for coal and oil based power plants for the past 30 years, and who've effectively shut down new construction nuclear plants in the US. Even the French are smart enough to know that Nuclear Power is a lot cleaner than coal or oil. And before you think you can argue with me about nuclear power, you should know I spent 6 years on board a nuclear powered submarine - don't even try.

    Everyone blames Bush for having to invade Iraq or for the myth he lied about WMD in Iraq. However, it's amazing that the media or people like you fail to remember that in Clinton's '96 State of the Union address, he was the one that warned about Saddam's pursuit of nuclear weapons, knowing about the un-enriched Uranium yellowcake Saddam had. Funny the media didn't bother to report to he masses that Saddam's Uranium has been guarded from day one of our getting to it in the first days of the invasion, and only recently was removed from Iraq at the Iraqi government's request.

    You know, what I'd really like to see is some actual intelligent arguments by people other than me who have actually been in government and the military, who understand the issues, rather than propaganda spouters who are so blinded by Fidel Obama that they just can't see him for what he really is. Whether you or anyone else on these forums like it, we're in a generational war - Bush understands this; Active duty and retired Vets like me understand this. Obama and the Democrats would rather extend a bouqet of daisies to those who would kill us, singing "Kumbayah" in the process with Daniel Baldwin and Obama leading the chorus. The Democrats have lied so much that you and others like you are so blinded by lies that you can't see the what the real truth is - or maybe you just don't want to see it.

    Iraq isn't Vietnam, contrary to what the extreme anti-war left would have everyone believe. Vietnam was a mistake on many levels; we weren't blatantly attacked on our own soil yet Kennedy chose to escalate. Oh, that's right - another great Democrat. Seems Democrats are always there when wars begin and Republicans are there to finish them.

    Did Iraq attack us? No, not directly, but we're in a new kind of war, the kind of war we invented over 200 years ago against the British. We of all people know how effective that kind of war is, and Bush was smart enough not to sit around and let what we did to the British happen to us. Al Qaeda's goal isn't a military victory over America - it's goal is the destruction of our economy.

    You live in Oakland , and you should know what kind of commerce flows through Oakland and the Port of San Francisco. I wrote yesterday that the NSA had caught the Iranians testing a crude missile launch system by putting a truck based missile launch platform in the hold of a cargo vessel. Imagine such a ship sitting off the Cali coast and taking out San Francisco and Oakland with one warhead. Being from Sacramento, I probably wouldn't care if Oakland were nuked -I sure wouldn't care. But I bet you would, and you'd probably lay the blame on Bush for not stopping it. Oh, that's right - you couldn't blame him, because you'd be dead.

    You people really need to start looking at and reading facts and stop listening to propaganda and media lies and repeating them. Most people my age learned that a long time ago during Vietnam.

    You speak of a college degree as proof Obama should be President. I've worked with some of the best engineers in the Aerospace industry, and they're also the dumbest even though they obviously have high IQ's. Why? Because college (especially Harvard) doesn't teach common sense. College doesn't teach you what experience does, as is obvious by yours and many other statements here. If you had the experience behind you it's likely you woudn't so blindly follow this pretender like a rat following the Pied Piper. Obama has no life or professional experiences to draw on, only what he's been taught or read in a book. We're still technically fighting a war and you think someone with 3 years of government experience qualifies him to be POTUS? Palin has more experience than Obama does just by being Governor of the front line missile defense State in the union. Of course you probably didn't think about, and the media sure won't remind you.

    And I won't even get into the fact that the only reason he became Senator is because a Judge was bought off and violated standing law by opening a child's file that eventually removed his only opponent in the Senate race. Coincidence? I hardly doubt it. Don't know who I'm referring to? Read Jeri Ryan's bio. (yes, Voyager Jeri Ryan).

    And let us not forget that it was Clinton who happily signed NAFTA into law, so that my notebook and most everything else is made by slave laborers in China and India.

    Yeah, go ahead and recite to me the great legacy of Bill Clinton. Let me get another wastebasket to puke in while you do.

    Europeans frankly aren't qualified to comment or judge anything that goes on in America, just as we could care less about what happens across the pond. Speaking of that, I read recently where Britain wimped out to the terrorists and removed Holocaust teaching from British schools, saying that it "offended Muslims" since they don't believe the Holocaust ever happened. I guess the Brits don't care anymore about the Jews that actually experienced it, and they obviously care less about offending them. I always thought that the British had more guts than the French. Guess I was wrong - the Chunnel has really brought the French and British cultures together, hasn't it? Or maybe the Brits are just appeasers at heart like the French are. Who knew?

    What hypocrites - and they have the gall to criticize us? The French hate Bush because unlike the French, who capitulate to everyone who holds a gun to their head, he was willing to take action before we were attacked again. Oh, and by invading Iraq we negated all of their contracts - and they actually have the gall to want in on the rebuilding process? Uh huh.

    I expected more from the British though, but I guess the days when all it took was a few soldiers camping on the Falklands was enough for Britain to go to war are long gone. Strange how much 25 years can change a country. Guess the Brits are more afraid of the hadji's than they are the Irish. Yeah, they really treated those SAS guys from Bravo 2 Zero well, didn't they? Where have you gone, Maggie?

    New Zealand - Hasn't counted for anything since it pulled out of ANZUS.

    Australia - what a great country, and even greater people. No wonder they still hate Britain so many years and generations later. Obama would last about 5 minutes on a podium there before they sent him swimming on the Reef.

    Oh yeah Tatty - as I remember, a Saudi owns Harrod's, and they own about as much of Britain as they do here in the States - except Britain's a lot smaller. In many ways.

    Tungsten - BigJohn's generalizations are more accurate than the leftist propaganda being spouted here about Obama. There's a place that he and the Democrats and everyone who believe their lies should go to live - it's called Fantasy Island.

    Everyone is so willing to blindly follow Obama and believe the mainstream media lies about Bush that we're in real danger of becoming a lot worse off if Fidel Obama is elected. The only reason the media is backing him is the same reason they backed Clinton in '92 - they realize how much of a screwup he'll be, and that makes more news, and more money for them. They've gotten as bad as the Democrats in that they don't care what it costs the country as long as they get what they want no matter what the cost.

    Finally - Guess who the 3rd biggest recipient of Fannie/Freddie loans is?

    Fidel Obama.
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  18. trt740

    trt740

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    Oh my god he quoted the huffington post


    thats like the the global news it's a bog by the most extreme left source possible that most democrats think is a straight up goof. Ariana Huffington is not a Republican she is a extremest, feminist radical, liberal, now I know you don't know anything about what you are talking about really thats crazy.
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  19. CyberVisions New Member

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    It's not propaganda at all. Want the truth eh? Sure you can handle it? The "truth" is that ACORN employees aren't all as corrupt as Obama and his buddies, fortunately for the rest of us who can see through the BS. Read this newswire about ACORN, or just Google it - if you've got the stomach for it. And no, it's not from FOX either. These people actually have the gall to claim that paying workers less than minimum wage (something they advocate) would make the businesses they work for more sympathetic to lower income workers. Please.... You believe in this crook, who's nothing more than a product of the Daly political machine? Don't you know anything about what they represent? Evidently not.

    The link to the full report on ACORN is further down in the story.

    http://tinyurl.com/53sp8k

    "Just because it's the truth doesn't mean you'll believe it"? What kind of nonsense is that? I guess what that means is that if you believe Obama then everything he's saying is a lie by your own logic. Sounds right to me.
  20. trt740

    trt740

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    read that again are you kidding I was sarcastically making a point, not supporting Obama the opposite :wtf: how the heck did you miss that? ACORN is a total mess and has been convicted several times for election tampering and barrack belongs to it.

    just one of hundreds of examples http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZrMpv0Pss
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2008
  21. nflesher87

    nflesher87 Staff

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    I love the thorough, educated, informative, and factual responses from the Conservatives here! Keep it up guys!
  22. das müffin mann

    das müffin mann New Member

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    i will say this the conservatives on this site don't piss me off at all (there was one back in the day), but they actually impress the shit outa me, i mean damn you guys know what your talking about and actually looked things up, your not just one of those ignorant party members that doesn't quite know why he/shes voting for the candidate (other than what he/she has heard on tv)

    good job guys im actually learning alot from you keep it up

    (im not being sarcastic at all, in case any of you were wondering)

    also im kinda drunk so sorry for any errors in sentence structure and the such
  23. CStylen

    CStylen New Member

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    Obama said he would pay for his proposed new programs, including mandatory health insurance, by imposing higher taxes on "the wealthy" and raising the tax on Social Security wages. He added, "What we have had right now is a situation where we've cut taxes for people who don't need them."

    The Wall Street Journal’s Steve Moore has done the math on Mr. Obama’s tax plan. He says it will add up to a 39.6% personal income tax, a 52.2% combined income and payroll tax, a 28% capital-gains tax, a 39.6% dividends tax, and a 55% estate tax. (must be time to be patriotic huh Biden?)

    According to recent Gallup data, "The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income, but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab.

    Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent -- those below the median income level -- now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes.

    The Urban Institute Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center has just published a detailed analysis and comparison of the tax policies of Senators McCain and Obama.

    It concludes that compared to current policy, McCain would cut taxes by $628 billion over the next 10 years and that Obama would raise them by $734 billion over the same period.

    Indeed.

    From http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaPolitics.htm
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2008
  24. wahdangun

    wahdangun New Member

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    i'm vote for Obama. because he's relative is from indonesia ;)
  25. Odin Eidolon

    Odin Eidolon New Member

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    oh man i'm not from US where you keep talking about socialists media and so on... just google it. And please stop claiming that he was so brave that now he could be a good President. There are tons of soldiers that can be brave, and another ton of them who has been and died. Noone remembers them. that's just PROPAGANDA. look at the real facts, instead. You wanna vote it not for that. thats an excuse. You wanna vote him cuz you hope that you'll pay less taxes (well, see what Bush did, and think about that). And you claim that taxes are unuseful. C'mon guys, taxes are what permits you to write in this thread, to have some kind of instruction, to drive on the roads, to have your beloved soldiers killing people around the world, to have a bit of healthcare if you are poor, to have the police that protects you, to have electricity. EVERYTHING

    that's just incredible. noone in europe would complain about taxes. we know its hard but most of us understand we need them. Why dont you?
    Psyon says thanks.

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