Who'll be the better president?

[Tatty_Two]

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. I agree w/ Obama's claim to meet w/ "enemies" as it is the only way peace will be attained. Closing communications and attempting to be heavy handed will only further encourage dissent and spawn ill-will toward the nation.

You can attempt to look at things as black and white and say this man's a terrorist this man isn't but it's just not that simple. Politics, money, it's a dirty game in which no head of our nation or others is clean from. Some have called our own presidents terrorists, and in some cases rightly so. Granted a distinction from appropriate action towards peace and collaborating with those who would never have it must be made, but it's foolish to think either candidate is clean of less than desirable contacts. Wasn't it Ragen who gave weapons to Bin Laden? If your wanting somebody who never associated w/ someone who could be called a terrorist in some sense, you'll be waiting for quite a while......

It's actually called "Foreign Policy".....diplomacy is much cheaper than war, and if your good at it..... it actually sometimes works! Sometimes a little pressure in the right place, a little influence from the wrong place, a little squeezing in his nutz place and you get what you want, without spending Billions trying to force it, and sadly, 8 times out of 10 failing.

 

[farlex85]

It's actually called "Foreign Policy".....diplomacy is much cheaper than war, and if your good at it..... it actually sometimes works! Sometimes a little pressure in the right place, a little influence from the wrong place, a little squeezing in his nutz place and you get what you want, without spending Billions trying to force it, and sadly, 8 times out of 10 failing.

I'm well aware. Perhaps it wouldn't fail 8 out of the 10 times if there was more peaceful talks than "nutz squeezing" as you say. Squeeze a guy's nutz enough and he'll hate your for it, and take whatever shot at you he can down the road. I'm not saying peaceful diplomacy is always possible, but rejecting the notion of even trying is foolish at best.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I'm well aware. Perhaps it wouldn't fail 8 out of the 10 times if there was more peaceful talks than "nutz squeezing" as you say. Squeeze a guy's nutz enough and he'll hate your for it, and take whatever shot at you he can down the road. I'm not saying peaceful diplomacy is always possible, but rejecting the notion of even trying is foolish at best.

Yeah, my point was....your point was right! Nutz always get squeezed in Diplomacy (I worked at a British Embassy in the middle east for 4 years) but as you have said, it's how tightly you squeeze them that determines the outcome!

 

[farlex85]

Yeah, my point was....your point was right! Nutz always get squeezed in Diplomacy (I worked at a British Embassy in the middle east for 4 years) but as you have said, it's how tightly you squeeze them that determines the outcome!

Or, not to get too indecent, how well they are stroked. I myself tend to respond more favorably to stroking, but hey, everybody's different..... (that was on topic I swear)

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Wrong. You are not talking about politics. You are insulting another member by insulting his profession. There is no discussion over my moderating here, nor will there be any more insults towards others or more infractions will occur.

This is really one sided. I was insulted constantly by trt740 and two others many pages back yet no infractions. Then trt740 insulted Tatty_One thoroughly. And now since trt740 is now being insulted you are putting your foot down. This is kinda strange.

I am working for Obama's campaign right now. trt740 is insulting Obama constantly. Thats my profession until after the election is over. If its about professions and all.

I am not attacking you. I am trying to show you how it looks to many following this thread.

 

[Polaris573]

It is absolutely unacceptable to discuss this further in this thread. If you have a problem with the way things are being handled you need to send a PM or create a new thread in comments and feedback. These are your only two options, further off topic discussion will result in infractions. You were already asked once before to discontinue this line of discussion, you failed to comply this is your final warning.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Watch it, English might not be my native language, it's not needed to mess with that. It's pretty much understandable to be honest.


No, it wasnt a muslim terrorist It was some nutcase caring about environment and animals and somehow Pim Fortuijn was a big threat for his ideas. Pretty much one of the most dangerous activists actually.


Well I cant really say for all Europians. What Ive against Bush? His arrogance. And yes, his arrogant attitude has to do with Iraq as well. But as well how he basicly got in the office and his ignorance. On the other side, that arrogant attitude from at least USA government has been there for a longer time than Bush is president, but Bush is taking the piss. He actually tipped the ice cream for ruining USA's status towards the world.


I think you missed my point, I was talking about the current things that's from your exact same idealogie called stealing. This stealing will just continue if McCain becomes president. What Obama's views on this are, I dont know but since he's a more social he might want to change it. But with McCain you know for sure he wont change it.



Heh, if I had 10M Euro and my country was in a shithole I'd prefer to pay more taxes over giving to any retarded charity. Also with 20K Euro/year you can do very nice things really, it just depends on how you spend it. If you're arrogant enough to buy the best quality meat and stuff just because you can buy it, yeah, then 20K Euro/year is worth fuck all. If you just behave normal and dont go nuts with money there's no problem and you can do most things you want.


I know they do it, I said I think it's wrong. Still that 10% does consist out of lazy-men, but also people who simply have very bad luck, or something happened they didnt chose for. Still I wouldnt care about them, but tax is tax and it has to be paid anyway, be it to play little soldier somewhere around the globe or to help certain people a bit.


Welcome to this century, this has been going on for ages and it's crap. Also keep in mind, that's why quite a few people in USA are fucked up now, is that having cellphones, cars, houses etc does not reflect your financial status. There are LOADS of people getting new loans to pay for their holiday or their new car. So they might as well be poor, although be it by their very own fault.


But so could beer.


You're missing another point, in Brave New World you wouldnt care. No one would care about anything.


Damn! That's what Im saying, HE'S NOT A SOCIALIST. A socialist wouldnt even be able to come NEAR eventual potential presidency in the USA for at least 10 other millenia Someone caring about everyone in the USA does not mean he's a socialist, whether he raises taxes on a scale of income or not. It has a socialist touch, nothing more than that. If you go that way, why dont you call him Stalin anyway. Then we call Bush Hitler, then we've a nice politician history for USA



But... Palin isnt a socialist in the first place? At least to me it's clearly conservatist/nationalist. So... please explain it a bit better because it's not making a lot of sense to me, who's with the atheists now exactly.


But Obama doesnt have those farts saying 'God Bless America', 'God will save us' etc etc. He just shuts up mostly. Well, as far as we see it on the news. But since I didnt hear him calling God once and Palin about only calling God it's pretty much clear for me already.


I already told you so, no need to repeat that unless it boosts your selflearning.


Errr...

What's wrong with the first link? I dont see much wrong there but well.

Second link = FOX, the second I saw 'FOX' I closed it already

Third link is with a title 'Racist Friends, Stupid Wife, Anti-American Pastor = Bad for America'. Now how exactly unbiased is this? I mean, how can people even blame people for racism if there's racism in your own laws, if USA is one of the most worst case scenarios of racism? What's wrong with an Anti-American Pastor? That's very arrogant because the bible is NOT about USA, USA is not the land from God/Jezus/nutcase. Although I wouldnt even want to be found dead in a church, still that pastor is doing his pastor things. If he thinks that America is in fight with what the bible says he's right. I never read the bible but one of the 'rules' is to respect everyone. Now USA already epicly failed at showing respect to say it nicely. Now please come with some less biased links or just leave it if you cant at least try and see both sides from a neutral pov.

agreed on all counts - every single one.

yep... me too.

its quite hard to continue posting on this thread LOL. i went to school and when i was back i had to read 6 pages very carefully, so i only had the time to thank those i agree with. Sorry

 

[TUngsten]

I don't think that Rev. Wright is anywhere near as offensive as David Duke, but I certainly think some of the things he's said are questionable. You've got to remember though - what we've seen of his sermons are extremely small (albeit inflammatory) snippets carefully selected to create the political fallout you're using as ammunition vs. Obama.

David Duke formed the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and National Association for the Advancement of White People...I could go on and on but you know he's a nutcase too so I won't bother

 

[Odin Eidolon]

8% of the people voted "But I want George W. Bush" (hope they were joking). Anyhow, i didnt see any post in this thread made by someone that could have voted that way. I could be wrong of course, tell me please. I'd like those people to tell me why they voted that, and what they think aboutlast 8 years. Thanks

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Reverend Wright has only been crazy recently. Oprah and Obama used to watch his sermons on the regular back when he never said anything about white people and was just speaking about the advancement of blacks in the US. Obama and Oprah both stopped going when he started to have sermons that went off the path of equality and into insanity. Then Obama cut off all ties from him, months later when the press played it 24/7 on Fox News for weeks in the US. I am not joking. It was the majority of their coverage for weeks showing once again that they are just a puppet of the republicans.

 

[TUngsten]

I don't disagree with you one bit Daedalus. I can't speculate one bit on what he said the 30 years prior to the comments that were used as political ammunition vs. Obama, because I haven't seen recordings of them, and I was not there.

However, judging by his list of honorary Doctoral Degrees and publications, I'd tend to think that he's not the anti-white, anti-american extremist the republican right wing would paint him as. :shadedshu but nonetheless, he's definitely said some crazy stuff recently. Hell, he's an old dude! Let's chalk it up to senility!

I'm not aware of any racist publications he's written, as opposed to Duke.

 

[Tatty_Two]

This is really one sided. I was insulted constantly by trt740 and two others many pages back yet no infractions. Then trt740 insulted Tatty_One thoroughly. And now since trt740 is now being insulted you are putting your foot down. This is kinda strange.

I am working for Obama's campaign right now. trt740 is insulting Obama constantly. Thats my profession until after the election is over. If its about professions and all.

I am not attacking you. I am trying to show you how it looks to many following this thread.

I appreciate your point and thank you genuinly, but Trt and I go back a long way and he was kidding with me regarding that comment..... but I am not attempting to dilute any of your other comments....thanks!

 

[DaMulta]

Everyone should elect me as President of the United States.


I see no need to have any bases around the world.

I would bring everyone home, from every country. If we wanted to trade with you we would go by your rules. If you start to kill everyone around your country we will nuke your country off the planet.

Then I would start a Military Space program. All wars from us would come from space. If we didn't like what you were doing we would just bomb you. We would set a military base on the moon to conduct watches on the rest of the world, and Military satellites that could shoot down any thing in the sky.

The Military Space program would share all programs that would help with space flight.


For America to go green every highway in America would be converted into solar panels. Then sell those parts off to private electric company's to maintain them. All roofs of all new houses would be required to be solar panels, everyone else in America would get a tax write off for having them installed guaranteed for 10 years.

All cars made 5 years from now must only be in electrical design.

Then I would release everyone from jail for non violent crimes on drugs and pardon everyone. If it was added to another crime, your time would be cut for the other reasons. I would then tell all the police and states of America that I would pardon everyone they arrested for it, and would ask congress to pass a bill letting people do what they want with them selfs. All non violent crimes would then be turned down to 5 years max.

We would save billions.

I would then take all that money and place it into the school systems. After graduation, all students would have to go work with the Military for 2 years without pay(given 5 grand when they finished) in no war zones, the united states would provide them with what ever they needed. Then They would be set lose to go to college, go to work, or join the military.


A illegal immigrant caught inside the united states would be forced to join the united states military for 4 years, and then given a choice to stay in the military or go to school. All kids with them would live on base with them and go to military schools for there time there.





lol just joking, or am I ......lol

 

[das müffin mann]

politics sure brings out the best in people...

 

[DaedalusHelios]

I don't disagree with you one bit Daedalus. I can't speculate one bit on what he said the 30 years prior to the comments that were used as political ammunition vs. Obama, because I haven't seen recordings of them, and I was not there.

However, judging by his list of honorary Doctoral Degrees and publications, I'd tend to think that he's not the anti-white, anti-american extremist the republican right wing would paint him as. :shadedshu but nonetheless, he's definitely said some crazy stuff recently. Hell, he's an old dude! Let's chalk it up to senility!

I'm not aware of any racist publications he's written, as opposed to Duke.

Before Jerry Falwell died(May 15, 2007), McCain became his friend, sat in on many sermons, and then recieved Falwells endorsement. McCain had called Falwell a racist many years ago. What changed McCain's mind?

Falwell's Liberty University isn't very far from where I live in North Carolina.

Falwell said many disturbing things. I am sure you guys remember some of them.

He blamed gays, feminists, pagans and abortionists for the September 11 attacks. Saying it was God's plan for punishing the US for having them around.

He also referred to Civil Rights as "Civil Wrongs" and stated that civil rights were just radical liberal views. Which they were considered that at the time.

PS. Yes, you can hate us liberals for giving everyone Civil Rights. I would guard civil rights with my life as many others have in the past.

 

[trt740]

Before Jerry Falwell died(May 15, 2007), McCain became his friend, sat in on many sermons, and then recieved Falwells endorsement. McCain had called Falwell a racist many years ago. What changed McCain's mind?

Falwell's Liberty University isn't very far from where I live in North Carolina.

Falwell said many disturbing things. I am sure you guys remember some of them.

He blamed gays, feminists, pagans and abortionists for the September 11 attacks. Saying it was God's plan for punishing the US for having them around.

He also referred to Civil Rights as "Civil Wrongs" and stated that civil rights were just radical liberal views. Which they were considered that at the time.

PS. Yes, you can hate us liberals for giving everyone Civil Rights. I would guard civil rights with my life as many others have in the past.

Come on now we are both Americans ( assume your are) and you think I want to take away civil right be fair here. liberals are generally good people trying to help, like the ladys at my church who drive to the drug infested neborhoods to help homeless people and give them money for food and they spend it on drugs. They are well intended but tend to have a pie in the sky view of the world that is not based in reality ( i realize this is a generalization). John Mccain spent 5 years in prison after giving an oath to defend you and your civil rights think about that.

Having said that, If you guys think I'm a John Mccain guy your wrong and I really don't care for his politics because he really is a Democrat and something else ( he flip flops alot), but no other person could say and do the things Obama has done and associated with the criminals he has, and have as little experience as he has, and even be considered to ever be president. I also want to say If Bill Clinton were able to run, even though hes a Democrat, I would take him over Mccain, for that matter I would take Biden over Mccain or Hillary Clinton over Mccain. They all have better politics and are more capable leaders than Mccain but they are not running Obama and Mccain are and Mccains the lesser of the two evils. How this happened I can not say but it is a mess. P.S I actually did guard your civil rights and friends of mine were killed doing the same and I was injured protecting and serving them aswell.

 

[Drizzt5]

John McCain lately has been all republican and honestly I'm not OK with that after 2 administrations of bush. At first there was no question from me that I wanted him to win. But amazingly in my eyes, I have to vote for Obama (something I still am uneasy about)... The VP pick on McCains part alone can turn me away though. And some well placed Shakespeare does the trick too, lol (If you don't understand, I watched a brief clip of the Colbert report and a guest talked about how Shakespeare always put the message out there that Military heroes almost never make good leaders, and Colbert's response, like always, just made me laugh).

 

[TUngsten]

[/B]but no other person could say and do the things Obama has done and associated with the criminals he has and have as little experience as he has and even be considered to ever be president. I also want to say If Bill Clinton were able to run, even though hes a Democrat, I would take him over Mccain for that matter I would take Biden over Mccain or Hillary Clinton. They all have better politics and are more capable leaders than Mccain but they are not running Obama and Mccain are and Mccains the lesser of the two evils.

I agree with you on the Biden issue. Nonetheless, I don't think a reasonable person can say Obama is any more guilty of associating with criminals than McCain is. Obama and Ayers would undoubtedly cross paths in Chicago as advocates for education reform.

It's a cop-out to try and pin associations and innuendos on people who might have been "associated" with the same educational, political, and civic projects, when there's absolutely no evidence or reason to believe there's anything illegal or improper about what they were doing. There is no story there beyond an attempt to smear by association. It's pretty damn weak, and your comment parrots the rightwing webcrud dujour.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

[/B]

Come on now we are both Americans ( assume your are) and you think I want to take away civil right be fair here. liberals are generally good people trying to help, like the ladys at my church who drive to the drug infested neborhoods to help homeless people and give them money for food and they spend it on drugs. They are well intended but tend to have a pie in the sky view of the world that is not based in reality ( i realize this is a generalization). John Mccain spent 5 years in prison after giving an oath to defend you and your civil rights think about that.

Having said that, If you guys think I'm a John Mccain guy your wrong and I really don't care for his politics because he really is a Democrat and something else ( he flip flops alot), but no other person could say and do the things Obama has done and associated with the criminals he has, and have as little experience as he has, and even be considered to ever be president. I also want to say If Bill Clinton were able to run, even though hes a Democrat, I would take him over Mccain, for that matter I would take Biden over Mccain or Hillary Clinton over Mccain. They all have better politics and are more capable leaders than Mccain but they are not running Obama and Mccain are and Mccains the lesser of the two evils. how this happened I can not say but it is a mess.

My grandfather could be considered a war hero too. He was head of a covert hit squad behind enemy lines two days before D-day. He is knighted as well. He is a democrat, and was for Civil Rights back when blacks didn't have them yet. He wrote an autobiography many years ago. It doesn't mean my grandfather would make a good president though. He understands the class warfare that has been going on in America since before the Great Depression since he was alive then.

Obama does not associate with criminals. I have yet to find any reliable source connecting Obama to ACORN despite his very strong connection to non-profit work in Chicago as a community organizer. He has been helping poor whites and blacks in Chicago for years. If thats the connection to criminals you are making, its a bit unorthodox.

 

[TUngsten]

He's just referring to Bill Ayers from what I can gather, but I don't know what other criminals he means. Maybe inner-city Chicago single mothers?

 

[trt740]

He's just referring to Bill Ayers from what I can gather, but I don't know what other criminals he means. Maybe inner-city Chicago single mothers?

no there are others in Acorn and a several real estate fraud criminal in the chicago area hes linked to. No matter hes gonna win anyways and who knows maybe he will prove me wrong. If hes does and I hope he does, then I will eat crow no problem. Since I'm the lightning rod here (weather good or bad) I'm am now gonna let someone else step up for a while and make this case maybe thing will calm down a bit. Just remember to vote either way.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

no there are others in Acorn and a sevral real estate fraud criminal in the chicago are hes linked to.

Don't you realize its just smear tactics. They cannot debate policy to try to get people against him because his policies benefit everyone except the top 10% as far as wealth.


Many have suggested changing the AMT and lifting the payroll tax cutoff so they are no longer exempt beyond a certain amount. Warren Buffet is ok with it.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Whilst the discussion revolving around the "slur" of both candidates is very relevant and quite interesting, as well as witnessing the very different perceptions of many here, might I ask, as a Brit that isnt that necessarily well informed 1st hand, if some people might highlight the political strengths and weakness of each if they were to be your "Commander in Chief" as opposed to their personal lives, I only ask because, party politics aside, I really would like to know, from a skills point of view, what they really do offer the American public.

 

[Psyon]

no there are others in Acorn and a several real estate fraud criminal in the chicago area hes linked to. No matter hes gonna win anyways and who know he maybe will prove me wrong. If hes does and I hope he does, then I will eat crow no problem.

Yeah, lately I saw them at a McDonalds the same time! Seriously! They must be conspiring!

Sorry but I don't give one cent on all these rumors!

 

[trt740]

Yeah, lately I saw them at a McDonalds the same time! Seriously! They must be conspiring!

Sorry but I don't give one cent on all these rumors!

were they eating a Big Mac cain LOL could help it. Now I will stop.