WINDOWS XP??? WAKE UP PEOPLE.

[Easo]

Ok, fully isolated XP machine with no network? Sure, why not ( it most likely being quite slow, depends on the hardware and software used though).
But dont tell me that XP is at least a bit secure if it's connected to outside, or that it is useful.
I cant call it useful just because it is the only platform being able to run old software, its headache and potentional torrent of issues.

 

[newtekie1]

Give one or more example...

Installing and configuring a FTP server.
Installing and configuring a HTTP server.
Installing any piece of software that isn't available through the repository.

And you know what, the whole argument for Linux in this thread has been wrong from the beginning. The argument for linux was that it some how gets support for longer than Windows. Well, it doesn't. Ubuntu has LTS(Long Term Support) versions. Guess how long they are support with security patches. 5 Years... Microsoft guarantees 10 years. The normal non-LTS versions are only guaranteed for 1 year. Most of the distros are the same. The corporate versions receive longer support, but you pay for, just like you pay Microsoft, so there is no advantage.

 

[dorsetknob]

Installing any piece of software that isn't available through the repository.

Main problem with any distro of linux is the general lack of hardware support
you can get drivers for most hardware under windows (even XP Drivers still ) but try installing that printer you bought or that webcam or that what ever piece of hardware you just bought
Linux will NEVER be Mainsrteam untill there is better hardware driver support
Most people will not be able to compile their own drivers AND THUS the LINUX FAILURE

 

[CJCerny]

Ok, fully isolated XP machine with no network? Sure, why not ( it most likely being quite slow, depends on the hardware and software used though).
But dont tell me that XP is at least a bit secure if it's connected to outside, or that it is useful.
I cant call it useful just because it is the only platform being able to run old software, its headache and potentional torrent of issues.

Use Firefox and Avira or Avast and Malwarebytes with XP and your odds of being infected are still pretty low, especially if you stay away from porn. You don't spend all your time worrying about a lack of anti-lock brakes or side curtain air bags or electronic stability control when you're driving around in a 12 year old car, do you?

I guess the point is that security concerns are overblown for a typical user, and that's exactly how Microsoft wants you to think, since they get $100 from you if they succeed in convincing you that your older OS is wide open to attack. Would I want my nuclear missile launch codes on a machine that runs XP? No, of course not, but my chances of having a virus issue with XP are still pretty low as long as I'm cautious about what I do with the machine. Am I going to run XP on that machine forever? No, of course not, but replacing it isn't critical either--yet.

 

[Blue-Knight]

Installing and configuring a FTP server.
Installing and configuring a HTTP server.
Installing any piece of software that isn't available through the repository.

Installing a FTP or HTTP server is not a thing the average user will do but... All that can be installed on a Linux system... You just need to have the patience to read the installation instructions given by the supplier (if any). It is just not like Windows: Next >> Next >> Done! (most of the time). Pre configured packages and script can be found as well.

It can all be done and most of the time is not a pain as you mentioned as long as you read the manual.

Main problem with any distro of linux is the general lack of hardware support

Complain to the developers. I do not have any problems with drivers at the moment but one thing that scares most users away is the lack of eye-candy GUI to control the hardware features and/or incomplete drivers.

LOL!

 

[TheMailMan78]

Installing a FTP or HTTP server is not a thing the average user will do but... All that can be installed on a Linux system... You just need to have the patience to read the installation instructions given by the supplier (if any). It is just not like Windows: Next >> Next >> Done! (most of the time). Pre configured packages and script can be found as well.

It can all be done and most of the time is not a pain as you mentioned as long as you read the manual.


Complain to the developers. I do not have any problems with drivers at the moment but one thing that scares most users away is the lack of eye-candy GUI to control the hardware features.

LOL!

Its not like Windows where you just click "next" for EVERYTHING. Thank you for making my point.

Took me six freaking hours to get the wifi to work on a system using "mint" one of the more user friendly distros.

 

[newtekie1]

Installing a FTP or HTTP server is not a thing the average user will do but... All that can be installed on a Linux system... You just need to have the patience to read the installation instructions given by the supplier (if any). It is just not like Windows: Next >> Next >> Done! (most of the time). Pre configured packages and script can be found as well.

It can all be done and most of the time is not a pain as you mentioned as long as you read the manual.

I never said these were things the average user will do. The average person won't do more than get on the internet and do basic office tasks, those features are built into Ubuntu when you install it. The point is that when you start to do anything beyond what a basic average user will do it starts to become a pain in the ass. Running commands and scrips and editing text files to set up programs is the definition of pain in the ass, I don't care if how to do it is in the manual.

And even still, there are plenty of things the average user will do that are a pain in the ass. I'm guessing the average user would like to use WiFi. Getting the driver installed for that Wifi card? Good f'n luck. It might work right out of the box, or you might have to compile the drivers for your distro. That shouldn't be to complicated for the average user, right?

 

[dorsetknob]

Complain to the developers. I do not have any problems with drivers at the moment but one thing that scares most users away is the lack of eye-candy GUI to control the hardware features.

well that nice new Shiny Sexy graphics card you just bought from AMVIDA and you want the drivers to install it so you put the install disk into your pc

Where the F**K are the linux Drivers they are not on the Install Disk

Oh you say go to the website fine try finding them there (small print Windows only this product has no linux support)

 

[Blue-Knight]

Running commands and scrips and editing text files to set up programs is the definition of pain in the ass

As I said it all depends on the developer... Some will ease things for you with automated configuration, compiled binaries, some will not.

I don't care if how to do it is in the manual.

But you should always read the manual. Especially if you found a problem. LOL!

I'm guessing the average user would like to use WiFi. Getting the driver installed for that old WiFi card in the PC? Good f'n luck.

Took me six freaking hours to get the wifi to work on a system using "mint" one of the more user friendly distros.

I think wifi usually had problems because of all the proprietary stuff (not sure)... With newer versions, it worked out of the box for me.

Not sure for ancient cards, the one I tested is from 2009.

Oh you say go to the website fine try finding them there (small print Windows only this product has no linux support)

As I said: Complain to the hardware maker, they are the responsible for drivers.

Check for Linux support before buying... Some will work (maybe not fully) even when the box claims "Windows only".

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Its not like Windows where you just click "next" for EVERYTHING. Thank you for making my point.

Took me six freaking hours to get the wifi to work on a system using "mint" one of the more user friendly distros.

It's time to call some bullshit.


In instance one, you say people are complaining about a "free" upgrade (the thread about windows 10 automatic updates). In instance two, you complain about taking some time to do tasks in an entirely free operating system (this thread). In instance one you claim that we can, as power users, muck about within our registry and make updates non-automatic. In instance two, you say spending the time to find and install drivers that work is a pain. You are either willfully ignorant, or the dichotomy of your statements has eluded you.


I'd assume at this point there will be more bile spewing about idiocy. I'm not asking you to justify your point, only recognize that by your own admissions you are completely blind to the truth of the situation. Perhaps a review of your points is in order. So we're clear, I know where I stand on the issue. Time is time, money is money, and you have to expend one of these resources somewhere to expect to get anything back.

 

[Atomic77]

Im not a person to upgrade but I had a computer with windows vista for about 5 years then for Christmas 2014 I got my Hp Envy. But anyhow its basically common sense that most people would be on a windows 7 system or a 8.1 by now.

 

[Blue-Knight]

But anyhow its basically common sense that most people would be on a windows 7 system or a 8.1 by now.

I tested Windows 8.1 this week (for the first time)... It is horrible. I would keep with 7 until 10 comes out.

Edit: Just my opinion.

 

[FireFox]

Windows 8.1

What's that?

 

[newtekie1]

I tested Windows 8.1 this week (for the first time)... It is horrible. I would keep with 7 until 10 comes out.

Edit: Just my opinion.

What didn't you like about it.

Give one or more examples...

 

[dorsetknob]

Check for Linux support before buying... Some will work (maybe not fully) even when the box claims "Windows only".

Yes you state the bleeding obvious whoopie
trouble is there is fuck all usualy Available for linux thats why people give up on that dead/dieing flightless bird and buy for windows
It works out of the "BOX"

People that is your average "Best Buy Customer" want kit that works out of the Box

 

[Blue-Knight]

People that is your average "Best Buy Customer" want kit that works out of the Box

But you can configure it to work "Out of the Box".

Remember, after you install Windows (from disc) it does not work out of the box... You have to install drivers, third part browsers, anti-viruses, office, and much more...

GNU/Linux can be configured with all that and it will work "Out of the Box" after 1 simple installation from disc.

What didn't you like about it.

Give one or more examples...

I did not like it. LOL!

 

[dorsetknob]

But you can configure it to work "Out of the Box".

your taking the piss now
you install Hardware
you put disk in drive
you try to install software
you find no linux software to install its either windows or Apple

anything else for joe public consumer is not good enough they are not interested in
configure it to work "Out of the Box"

REMEMBER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT JOE PUBLIC WHO IS NOT AS COMPUTER LITERATE AS MOST OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS SITE ARE

 

[Blue-Knight]

REMEMBER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT JOE PUBLIC WHO IS NOT AS COMPUTER LITERATE AS MOST OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS SITE ARE

But the configuration part is to be done by the OEM not by Joe.

The Joe will have everything he needs to do common tasks: Office, Music, Video, Internet, Printing, CD/DVD/BD Burning, Image Retouching, Video and Audio Editing, 3D modeling and more... He will have the "Software Manager" to choose other programs and games he can install or even buy.

Just include a detailed "User's Manual" and I guess it is more than ready for the Joe. LOL!

 

[dorsetknob]

When did it go from consumer joe buying from Best buy and the lack of linux support to OEM
""you lost track of the thread and the plot""

 

[Blue-Knight]

When did it go from consumer joe buying from Best buy and the lack of linux support

You are looking for support in the wrong place... Big software companies (e.g. Cyberlink, Sony, Adobe, Microsoft) will never invest in making their latest software for an operating system few people use.

Oh, but they make for Apple OS because >> They know Apple users have a lot of money even with it being a relatively small market...

This thing of support from proprietary software makers will only change when there are more users migrating to Linux... See mobiles.

Not sure. Just random opinion. LOL!

 

[dorsetknob]

You are looking for support in the wrong place

Buying hardware from "Best buy"as joe public
installing hardware
Software Support for the hardware should be on the install disk included with the purchase
It is for Windows or Apple it is not for linux
Joe public when he buys hardware wants software supplied with his hardware SO IT WORKS
not to have to go online to try and find software and drivers that works

 

[Blue-Knight]

Joe public when he buys hardware wants software supplied with his hardware SO IT WORKS

What you mean here is hardware controlled by software (remember the eye-candy GUI I talked about earlier?)...

And add what I said in the previous post: Big software companies (e.g. Cyberlink, Sony, Adobe, Microsoft) will never invest in making their latest software for an operating system few people use.

That includes the software shipped with drivers... I remember ZTE had their software available for both Windows and Linux on their installation modem. That is still rare though.

They were the only one I saw so far to make this. LOL!

 

[dorsetknob]

Then there is NO incentive what so ever for joe public to use linex
his hardware is not supported out of the box
which is what he /she wants
linex is for techicnal enthusasts not the public

Just Ask Mike Dell how he got on with linex as an OEM (probably the only OEM that tried)

What you mean here is hardware controlled by software (remember the eye-candy GUI I talked about earlier?)...

like sliders to control that sound card or graphics card settings basic controls not eye candy

 

[Blue-Knight]

Then there is NO incentive what so ever for joe public to use linix

There are many incentives: Price, freedom, entertainment, and development of a better future are just a few.

his hardware is not supported out of the box

It is.

linix is for techicnal enthusasts not the public

My brother has been using GNU/Linux on a netbook for 2 years without complaints...

linix is for techicnal enthusasts not the public

GNU/Linux is made for everyone.

LOL!

 

[ZeDestructor]

Just Ask Mike Dell how he got on with linex as an OEM (probably the only OEM that tried)

Working quite well actually. Their XPS13 laptops are much-loved by those of us using Linux on it since it has the full set of drivers either mainlined into the kernel or available in a single, central repository, complete with custom patches, configs, workarounds and the like.

On the less well-documented side, since those machines almost never get sold to Joe Public in Best Buy, the Dell Precision/Latitude/Optiplex, HP EliteBook/Elite Desktop, and Lenovo ThinkPad/ThinkStation support Linux extremely well either in the default configuration or after some minor speccing (Intel wifi cards in particular being the item you look for) since several years now. And yes, those are used by actual end users in a few companies. Too few, sadly. Eitherways, the end user does NOT care what it runs, since any competent sysadmin will lock those machines down tight with FDE enabled and lots of other security related stuff, meaning that it doesn't matter what the user wants to install - they get the corporate loadout and deal with it.

On the consumer/slef-managed side, I will agree that Linux is still a ways out (wifi and GPU drivers, really), but if my dad only used Linux for basic web browsing/video watching/email, Linux would be fine once I set it up, locked it down and enabled the auto-update magicks. He works using the machine though, including some very obscure, poorly-maintained, Windows-only, field-specific software, as well as an utter reliance on Office for document creation (familiarity + unoficcial standards, yay.. I prefer LaTeX myself).