WINDOWS XP??? WAKE UP PEOPLE.

[TheMailMan78]

It's time to call some bullshit.


In instance one, you say people are complaining about a "free" upgrade (the thread about windows 10 automatic updates). In instance two, you complain about taking some time to do tasks in an entirely free operating system (this thread). In instance one you claim that we can, as power users, muck about within our registry and make updates non-automatic. In instance two, you say spending the time to find and install drivers that work is a pain. You are either willfully ignorant, or the dichotomy of your statements has eluded you.


I'd assume at this point there will be more bile spewing about idiocy. I'm not asking you to justify your point, only recognize that by your own admissions you are completely blind to the truth of the situation. Perhaps a review of your points is in order. So we're clear, I know where I stand on the issue. Time is time, money is money, and you have to expend one of these resources somewhere to expect to get anything back.

Its actually quit simple. You are calling BS on two points to two different subjects that have only some shared traits.

Ill itemize because that's what I like to do when making my points.

1. People are complaining about a free upgrade that is non mandatory and unnecessary. Their biggest complaint is that it will have automatic updates which at this time we don't know what exactly they are. They could just be the recommended security updates. The complaint isn't about its (W10) usability. Its friendly user interface or anything else. Its all about a unreasonable fear of big brother watching their porn habits. Diver update issue isn't even reasonable to concern. So I figured, as always there will be a SIMPLE work around IF there is even an issue. Chances are there will even be an option on install to turn some things off. People who have been running Windows 10 for months haven't been complaining or there would already be massive blow back.

2. With all the unreasonable fear surrounding W10 at this point people are actually mentioning another FREE alternative Linux. Nothing is simple in Linux without spending hours reading manuals and browsing master race neck beard forums. A simple task such as installing a new driver in Linux could take HOURS if its even possible. My point to this was yes its free but, figuring out a simple workaround for a perceived, subjective windows 10 flaw is FAR more easy than say learning an entirely new OS and coding.

Bottom line is MS doesn't give a crap about the maybe .00001% of its market that fear mandatory updates to its new free non-mandatory OS. A SIMPLE work around for a SINGLE issue will be solved in no time. Linux even though its free is difficult. LOTS of tasks even more somewhat savvy users are damn near impossible to figure out with any real confidence. It sucks and doesn't support crap. Is that subjective? Of course but, Ill take Windows over Linux any day of the week. My time is more enjoyed playing games, painting in photoshop or trolling TPU than spending a day trying to figure out how to install my keyboard drivers in Linux.

Call BS on anything you like. That's all the healing balm for the butt hurt I'm gonna give.

EDIT: While I was writing this OneMour was apparently replying also. Look OneMour and I do not see eye to eye on much ANYTHING. I have him muted in TeamSpeak to this day.......EVEN HE AGREES LINUX SUCKS. I agree with OneMour..........I need to shower.

 

[R-T-B]

People are complaining about a free upgrade that is non mandatory and unnecessary. Their biggest complaint is that it will have automatic updates which at this time we don't know what exactly they are. They could just be the recommended security updates. The complaint isn't about its (W10) usability. Its friendly user interface or anything else. Its all about a unreasonable fear of big brother watching their porn habits. Diver update issue isn't even reasonable to concern. So I figured, as always there will be a SIMPLE work around IF there is even an issue. Chances are there will even be an option on install to turn some things off. People who have been running Windows 10 for months haven't been complaining or there would already be massive blow back.

Fallacy. We know exactly what they are... rtm is out. They (the testers) haven't complained before now because this feature was only recently starting being used in it's intended fashion. Pretty much ends that argument, doesn't it?

The big brother stuff is BS but that's off topic.

The topic is Windows XP. But now we're on Linux so I'll indulge you for a moment. Linux doesn't suck. It's not a desktop OS. Using it as one or attempting to make it one has been similar to complaining that toothpaste does not work as deodorant.

 

[Atomic77]

Oh my gosh this discussion really got derailed.

 

[Jetster]

It was pointless after the first page

 

[Blue-Knight]

Oh my gosh this discussion really got derailed.

What!? We are still talking about operating systems.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Its actually quit simple. You are calling BS on two points to two different subjects that have only some shared traits.

Ill itemize because that's what I like to do when making my points.

1. People are complaining about a free upgrade that is non mandatory and unnecessary. Their biggest complaint is that it will have automatic updates which at this time we don't know what exactly they are. They could just be the recommended security updates. The complaint isn't about its (W10) usability. Its friendly user interface or anything else. Its all about a unreasonable fear of big brother watching their porn habits. Diver update issue isn't even reasonable to concern. So I figured, as always there will be a SIMPLE work around IF there is even an issue. Chances are there will even be an option on install to turn some things off. People who have been running Windows 10 for months haven't been complaining or there would already be massive blow back.

2. With all the unreasonable fear surrounding W10 at this point people are actually mentioning another FREE alternative Linux. Nothing is simple in Linux without spending hours reading manuals and browsing master race neck beard forums. A simple task such as installing a new driver in Linux could take HOURS if its even possible. My point to this was yes its free but, figuring out a simple workaround for a perceived, subjective windows 10 flaw is FAR more easy than say learning an entirely new OS and coding.

Bottom line is MS doesn't give a crap about the maybe .00001% of its market that fear mandatory updates to its new free non-mandatory OS. A SIMPLE work around for a SINGLE issue will be solved in no time. Linux even though its free is difficult. LOTS of tasks even more somewhat savvy users are damn near impossible to figure out with any real confidence. It sucks and doesn't support crap. Is that subjective? Of course but, Ill take Windows over Linux any day of the week. My time is more enjoyed playing games, painting in photoshop or trolling TPU than spending a day trying to figure out how to install my keyboard drivers in Linux.

Call BS on anything you like. That's all the healing balm for the butt hurt I'm gonna give.

EDIT: While I was writing this OneMour was apparently replying also. Look OneMour and I do not see eye to eye on much ANYTHING. I have him muted in TeamSpeak to this day.......EVEN HE AGREES LINUX SUCKS. I agree with OneMour..........I need to shower.

I don't give a single whit about how you want to read my response, and I don't appreciate you interpreting what I am saying. Every time you respond you manage to twist my wording to mean something I've not implied.

I'll make the point clear. If you want to say that MS is offering a free "upgrade" to windows 10, therefore people should be quiet about a very real potential issue, then you can't really turn around and bash a completely free OS. You compound the duplicity by stating that any possible issues in Windows can be solved, by a registry edit that is non-trivial, and calling Linux a refuge for "neck beards." After insults, baseless accusations, and an argument built upon fluff you claim that the two topics (EOL XP and a suggested upgrade to an unproven new OS) are only tangentially related. The leaps in logic to avoid linking these two topics are absolutely astounding.


I don't care about your opinions on Linux. They don't matter, because saying I'd have to spend an hour and $120 on a W10 install, but have to spend four hours on a Linux install is a trivial difference. One of the greatest hurdles going from one MS OS to another is discovering where exactly they moved everything you used to use, and I don't think either of us could argue against that. Linux is only one step more than that, as you've got to learn all of the basics before doing anything. For your invested time you get a far more flexible system, and don't have to pay a cent for it. Flexibility, in practice, is on a see-saw with ease of use. The more you can do, the more complicated a system needs to be.

You are 100% correct when you cited Apple. Their systems a locked down, but easy to use. MS going in the same direction with forced updates is the same thing, and should be feared. I don't want to have to jump ship to Linux (it still has too many issues), but if I can't manage my own computer any more then I have no choice. Assuming MS actually comes out with a logical update system (as we seem to agree, security is required but everything else is optional), I'll bite. Unfortunately their track record speaks otherwise, so allowing them to know that forced updates will be something the community watches is only prudent. You can reasonably argue that discussing it on a technical forum is less than impactfull, but the more people who know about it, the more can respond if MS manages to make an error.



For the record, we agree on Linux. It's got too many flavors to be useful to an average user, the commands are obfuscated behind idiotic naming that each flavor determines, and the drivers are even worse than the MS automatic options. I've experienced the pain of installing the Nvidia Linux driver (having to black flag the old one still raises my eyebrow). Linux needs orthodoxy. Somebody needs to step forward, design a UI for some of these features that isn't dependent upon a mile of syntax that can be destroyed by a single incorrect keystroke, and it all needs to be packaged so that most users have access to basic functions (word processing, spreadsheets, e-mail, browsing, and media playback) right out of the box. What Linux needs is an XP; a system where competent users can do just about anything to the OS, but basic users don't have to swim to the deep end of the pool. Ubuntu is trying to do that, but they've got a lot of distance left to go. Mint and Puppydog are great for low impact experimentation. Redhat is doing a decent job with the "neck beard light" business community. Meanwhile Arch, Backtrack, and thousands of other distributions exist in the confusing realm between generalist and one use flavors that make Linux both amazing and confusing.

Seriously though, there are distros of Linux that do FEA better than programs that are licensed to universities for $100,000 per year. Once they're installed and running they require almost no maintenance, can be locked down for security, and their cost is only the time required to learn their intricacies. Given the hours you'll be spending learning any CAD program, Linux blows them out of the water with functionality, cost, and features. All engineers aren't "neck beards," and stating otherwise shows a crass nature which brings the voracity of any comments you make rather easy to dismiss as ignorant ravings.

 

[OneMoar]

well that escalated quickly

 

[johnspack]

XP? Pos2009 reg trick. MS doesn't care. It'll keep getting security updates. But why? Win7 will run better and faster on the same old hardware.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I don't give a single whit about how you want to read my response, and I don't appreciate you interpreting what I am saying. Every time you respond you manage to twist my wording to mean something I've not implied.

I'll make the point clear. If you want to say that MS is offering a free "upgrade" to windows 10, therefore people should be quiet about a very real potential issue, then you can't really turn around and bash a completely free OS. You compound the duplicity by stating that any possible issues in Windows can be solved, by a registry edit that is non-trivial, and calling Linux a refuge for "neck beards." After insults, baseless accusations, and an argument built upon fluff you claim that the two topics (EOL XP and a suggested upgrade to an unproven new OS) are only tangentially related. The leaps in logic to avoid linking these two topics are absolutely astounding.


I don't care about your opinions on Linux. They don't matter, because saying I'd have to spend an hour and $120 on a W10 install, but have to spend four hours on a Linux install is a trivial difference. One of the greatest hurdles going from one MS OS to another is discovering where exactly they moved everything you used to use, and I don't think either of us could argue against that. Linux is only one step more than that, as you've got to learn all of the basics before doing anything. For your invested time you get a far more flexible system, and don't have to pay a cent for it. Flexibility, in practice, is on a see-saw with ease of use. The more you can do, the more complicated a system needs to be.

You are 100% correct when you cited Apple. Their systems a locked down, but easy to use. MS going in the same direction with forced updates is the same thing, and should be feared. I don't want to have to jump ship to Linux (it still has too many issues), but if I can't manage my own computer any more then I have no choice. Assuming MS actually comes out with a logical update system (as we seem to agree, security is required but everything else is optional), I'll bite. Unfortunately their track record speaks otherwise, so allowing them to know that forced updates will be something the community watches is only prudent. You can reasonably argue that discussing it on a technical forum is less than impactfull, but the more people who know about it, the more can respond if MS manages to make an error.



For the record, we agree on Linux. It's got too many flavors to be useful to an average user, the commands are obfuscated behind idiotic naming that each flavor determines, and the drivers are even worse than the MS automatic options. I've experienced the pain of installing the Nvidia Linux driver (having to black flag the old one still raises my eyebrow). Linux needs orthodoxy. Somebody needs to step forward, design a UI for some of these features that isn't dependent upon a mile of syntax that can be destroyed by a single incorrect keystroke, and it all needs to be packaged so that most users have access to basic functions (word processing, spreadsheets, e-mail, browsing, and media playback) right out of the box. What Linux needs is an XP; a system where competent users can do just about anything to the OS, but basic users don't have to swim to the deep end of the pool. Ubuntu is trying to do that, but they've got a lot of distance left to go. Mint and Puppydog are great for low impact experimentation. Redhat is doing a decent job with the "neck beard light" business community. Meanwhile Arch, Backtrack, and thousands of other distributions exist in the confusing realm between generalist and one use flavors that make Linux both amazing and confusing.

Seriously though, there are distros of Linux that do FEA better than programs that are licensed to universities for $100,000 per year. Once they're installed and running they require almost no maintenance, can be locked down for security, and their cost is only the time required to learn their intricacies. Given the hours you'll be spending learning any CAD program, Linux blows them out of the water with functionality, cost, and features. All engineers aren't "neck beards," and stating otherwise shows a crass nature which brings the voracity of any comments you make rather easy to dismiss as ignorant ravings.

Actually I said and I quote "Linux is for professionals who are paid and guys who cant get laid. No woman will stay with someone who wants to willingly learn Linux for the lulz.". Linux has a place. An important one at that. However people who use it for non-professional reasons are neck beards.......never said a darn thing about engineers.

 

[Sir B. Fannybottom]

everyone should just use macs because they are better and you dont need to upgrade them like shit windows pcs

 

[johnspack]

Not sure what all the banter was about, but I'm a windows whore... and even I like playing with linux. It has it's uses. I like off the mainstream distros like opensuse, where you can install a driver in seconds. You can install multimedia codecs to play anything, in again, seconds. Linux could be much better if software developers supported it, but MS has billions to spend, and everyone follows them like the proverbial carrot at the end of the stick. Win 10 sucks, and I will avoid it like the plague, my take on that. And I was able to delete my GWX folder on my win7 install not long ago, so that issue is resolved. VMs are useful.... try them!

 

[Frick]

I think it's important to realize that a lot of the "new OS is gonna make my life a lot better" group think is just a result of constantly hearing that kind of talk from Microsoft (and the other offenders). In reality, there isn't that much in Win 7 or Win 10 that is new and makes me want to pay to get it. The OS is really just code to make all the hardware play nice with each other. The real fun (and/or productivity) is in the apps that you load on your PC, and the OS doesn't really play a big role in that. XP is still chugging along fine on an old machine I have. Granted, I use Firefox now and Avira in place of IE and MSE but, I wouldn't get any real bang for my buck by plunking down $100 to update to a newer OS.

This is true, up to a point. Software needs updates, and sooner or later it makes sense to break off from the old version. They could update XP forever, but it would'nt make sense from any perspective, not with how things were done back then.

 

[remixedcat]

The docs offices here mostly use 7 since they are mostly new offices and PCs... Hell I saw a machine with server 2012 as a workstation and it even had a G500 mouse and a higher end logitech KB! ha ha. This was one of the receptionist's computers.

Lots of windows 7 and 8 systems here. As well as higher end cisco networking hardware or aruba networks access points.

 

[Atomic77]

I thought I saw somewhere some one was still on windows 2000 or windows ME.

 

[rtwjunkie]

No way would I connect to the internet on W2000, not even with the huge community service pack!

 

[Blue-Knight]

No way would I connect to the internet on W2000

And do you feel safer with Windows 10!?

Different versions, same risk. LOL!

 

[R-T-B]

And do you feel safer with Windows 10!?

Different versions, same risk. LOL!

Uh, not really... The kernel has way more unpatched vulnerabilities in 2000... mostly due to the longstanding lack of MS support.

 

[Steevo]

Lol, my company flat-out bought IBM's AS400 POS software from circa 1988. Best thing we ever did. We now tweak it in-house and it scales wonderfully across 550 branches nationwide and it's very fast. Just cause it's old does not mean it has to be upgraded. We run Win 7 on every desktop and Citrix on some of the terminals.

AS/400 is secure at the hardware level, and no rights are granted except those explicitly listed in a admin only access file. I used to love our old one, 3270 emulator setup on Windows Vista was a chore when it was brand new, but I managed to get it to work and then had a large company (who provided the AS/400 and their own POS/Inventory management/Payroll etc... software running on it) try to get me to give them the fix, for free of course.

 

[micropage7]

No way would I connect to the internet on W2000, not even with the huge community service pack!

yeah, theres no perfect os, as long as you can deal with it and run it nicely you can keep it longer than it should

 

[Atomic77]

The perfect OS is actually the one you are currently using as long as it works and you don't have issues with using it for whatever you do. But it is better to be a windows 7 or a 8.1 at this point anyways in reguards to support and Microsoft updates.

 

[ChristTheGreat]

Actually, if the computer got no internet, it's fine. ALso, you can still buy security updates at microsoft if I remember, but cost like 100 to 200$ a year per computer.

Also, sometimes people use old software, which isn't support on newer version, which make them not wanting to change.

 

[tabascosauz]

Eons ago in this thread, someone mentioned that the US Navy still uses Windows XP. If that is true, it's still quite different from a business like a doctor's office using Windows XP, since the latter is merely a small business. With applications that involve the military, government agencies, or aeronautics such as NASA, even the use of Windows 2000 as a base for its software would not be unacceptable, since stability (not likely to behave bizarrely), reliability (won't sprout a bug that no one knows about) and protection (surviving hits from various ordnance or withstanding the dangers of space) are much more important than speed. Plus, the UI can be super simple and non-demanding on hardware because it must be intuitive.

In a doctor's office, however, I imagine the usage of such a computer would be to access and maintain databases of client information. This would not be too dissimilar to what computers are used for in a law office (with which I have experience), albeit with a little less internet usage. There are plenty of performance penalties to be had with using XP, since I find that with the same HDD, a Pentium E5200 or C2D E7400 system performs better in the relevant legal software with Windows 7. Assuming that the database software in doctors' offices gets updated when necessary, there should be no reason why Windows 7 wouldn't be a viable choice for the clinic; of course, they can still use XP, though it might only afford a fraction of the performance (and this is not a debate over whether an i3-2120 performs as well as a i7-4790K in office applications; it's a question of whether you would want to wait 2 seconds after pressing a button or 60 seconds, and this is from personal experience).

There is a distinction to be made between a doctor's office and a hospital. Hospital applications are mission-critical and mirror those of the military. Reliability over modernization, especially when someone's life hangs in the balance.

 

[Atomic77]

I don't really have anything more to add to this matter but It is common sense that businesses and clinics and hospitals would want to be as up to date on things as possible.

 

[MilkyWay]

Does anywhere still use Warp OS/2? I know a few embedded systems did but most of them seem to have upgraded to XP overtime.

 

[R-T-B]

Does anywhere still use Warp OS/2? I know a few embedded systems did but most of them seem to have upgraded to XP overtime.

It's been dead for some time, despite numerous attempts to revive it. It was last used in older ATM machines IIRC. There may still be some floating around somewhere...

It's kernel is on par with XP and even ahead in some areas though, but make no mistake, everything else about it is dated and dead in the water.

 

[Aquinus]

linux: installing software
1. run package manager
2. attempt to deciper what package corresponds to what software
3. attempt to install said software, wait for it to install 20 dependencys
4. proceed to fix breakage caused by said dependencys
5. realize package maintainer is a moron, and curse him out in a email
6. give up and boot into windows

1. Aptitude has a GUI interface that lets you search packages like it were the App Store. Not exactly hard to use.
2. Resolved by GUI interface as stated above.
3. At least Linux handles dependencies for you. Be glad you don't have to screw with stuff like that in Windows.
4. 99% of the time deps are fine. I've almost never have gotten a legitimate dependencies issue that couldn't be resolved with "apt-get update" which GUI aptitude runs when you start it.
5. Now your just ranting and not making a point.
6. Same as #5.

linux upgrading:
1. steps 1 though 3 from the above
2. reboot:
3. spend 45M figuring out why xorg won't start
4. realise that every package on the system is trashed because the upgrade script written by some retard botched every package in the system
5. format and reinstall from a .iso
6. watch gpart completely fuckup every boot-able partition in the system
7. give up and reinstall windows

1. Remember, GUI. Single button saying "Distro upgrade," on Ubuntu.
2. Sure.
3. Ugh, drivers. This is the only thing I'll agree upon. Managing drivers in Linux sucks but, if you don't upgrade, they always seem to work. You run into the most issues when manually installing drivers and not using the package manager though...
4. Haven't seen this happen in 5 years.
5. At this point you gave up if something went wrong.
6. GParted usually does an okay job, however, I'll agree that it gparted tends to bork up however, if it's making drives unbootable, you probably did something on installation to make that happen. I've had a lot of issues with GParted but, destroying data isn't one of those problems unless you told it to.
7. Sure.

My point here is that you explained everything that can go wrong and in most cases it doesn't. Ubuntu has been getting a lot better with usability over the years and I have seen normal people use Ubuntu. People complain because they're not used to it but, if a normal person if forced to use it, they'll learn how to update, use a browser, and do thing very quickly. Before I graduated from college I saw a lot of non-technical people who would ask for help on their laptop and it would be running Ubuntu because daddy installed it or it came with their Dell.

Side note: I've seen people kill drives with the Windows installer partitioning tool too.

dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda bs=4k

Too slow. Zeros are faster to generate and most drives don't do 4k chunks very quickly.

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=4M

It is not that it is easier, people are just used to it.

I don't agree with blue knight on things often, but this is one of those things. People like what is familiar. I've seen plenty of people learn how to use Ubuntu without too much issue to do regular things (browser, office, music, etc.)

However, I'm still a little annoyed that blue-knight won't even describe why he doesn't like Windows 8.1 while saying that it's so bad. Something can't be so bad if you can't say what's bad about it. I think someone needs to read Dr. Suess' Green Eggs and Ham; "I do not like them, Sam-I-Am!" When in reality, he hasn't ever tried green eggs and ham and when he does, they're delicious.

So I'm siding with @newtekie1 on this one. I'm calling you out until you explain to us why you feel so strongly because without reason, you just look like someone who doesn't like change.

Its actually quit simple. You are calling BS on two points to two different subjects that have only some shared traits.

Ill itemize because that's what I like to do when making my points.

1. People are complaining about a free upgrade that is non mandatory and unnecessary. Their biggest complaint is that it will have automatic updates which at this time we don't know what exactly they are. They could just be the recommended security updates. The complaint isn't about its (W10) usability. Its friendly user interface or anything else. Its all about a unreasonable fear of big brother watching their porn habits. Diver update issue isn't even reasonable to concern. So I figured, as always there will be a SIMPLE work around IF there is even an issue. Chances are there will even be an option on install to turn some things off. People who have been running Windows 10 for months haven't been complaining or there would already be massive blow back.

2. With all the unreasonable fear surrounding W10 at this point people are actually mentioning another FREE alternative Linux. Nothing is simple in Linux without spending hours reading manuals and browsing master race neck beard forums. A simple task such as installing a new driver in Linux could take HOURS if its even possible. My point to this was yes its free but, figuring out a simple workaround for a perceived, subjective windows 10 flaw is FAR more easy than say learning an entirely new OS and coding.

Bottom line is MS doesn't give a crap about the maybe .00001% of its market that fear mandatory updates to its new free non-mandatory OS. A SIMPLE work around for a SINGLE issue will be solved in no time. Linux even though its free is difficult. LOTS of tasks even more somewhat savvy users are damn near impossible to figure out with any real confidence. It sucks and doesn't support crap. Is that subjective? Of course but, Ill take Windows over Linux any day of the week. My time is more enjoyed playing games, painting in photoshop or trolling TPU than spending a day trying to figure out how to install my keyboard drivers in Linux.

Call BS on anything you like. That's all the healing balm for the butt hurt I'm gonna give.

EDIT: While I was writing this OneMour was apparently replying also. Look OneMour and I do not see eye to eye on much ANYTHING. I have him muted in TeamSpeak to this day.......EVEN HE AGREES LINUX SUCKS. I agree with OneMour..........I need to shower.

Linux has gotten a bit easier to use over the years. Most of the time, pointing and clicking does most of what you need it to do. If some girl who's an education major and isn't technical in any way, shape or form, can learn to use Linux and not have a problem with it, I think other people can too. Just like Blue-Knight, you're getting super worked up about this when you probably haven't dived into Linux recently. It sounds like your experience may be dated.

Edit: I'm getting the distinct impression that people are making mountains out of mole hills when it comes Windows 10 and Linux. So many of these claims are simply astonishing.

On topic: I happen to know that the local hospital is moving to Win7 as we speak, they may have already upgraded even.