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"World CEP2 Challenge" planning thread

Discussion in 'World Community Grid (WCG)' started by Chevalr1c, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Norton

    Norton WCG-TPU Team Captain

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    Just a quick comment on one item....

    I believe this part is a non-issue as WCG does the math for challenges. You may want to check on this first.

    **EDIT**

    FYI- these are the results from the CEP2 challenge issued by WCG (i.e. not by a Team) in Feb. 2012
    http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/challenge/viewTeamChallenge.do?challengeId=4660

    I think we'll do OK...:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
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  2. Chicken Patty

    Chicken Patty WCG Moderator Staff Member

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    Honestly guys, it is indeed a planning thread so no need to get all rowdy about anything. One thing I will throw out there is the following. If all these years, the requirements have been set low and easy, why change it now? While prizes are great, we also do challenges to recruit new members. Once they join, they crunch, they post, they get a feel for the "family like" feeling of this forum. You know what happens after that? Some go, as expected, but most stay. After a while a few start to dissappear, I won't lie but a few from years ago are still around and post regularly. I'm all up for a challenge, I truly am, but setting the requirements high will only discourage members to join. My two cents would be lower them a bit to where an "average" system can still meet it, but this is not only about me so I want to know what everyone thinks.
     
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  3. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    What kind of system is the MAD cruncher, Arjai?

    That is what we get when indeed setting it on a one-project challenge. That is why I was stating we should not put it on "all projects" like we initially wanted. :)

    Of course you are right. My challenge-wide prizes will be having no minimum WU count, as long as there has been at least 2 WU submitted (instead of the 5*N I propsed before). I do not know what the requirements will be for the TPU-only prizes.
     
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  4. Arjai

    Arjai

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    An AMD 64x2, It's in my specs.

    :toast:
     
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  5. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    Okay, so it is a dual core desktop on Linux? Should give nice PPD once you can run it again. :)
     
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  6. Chicken Patty

    Chicken Patty WCG Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I meant the limit should be low in general for the prizes as well. People join for the prizes... message wasn't intended to anyone specific, just said it in general.
     
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  7. [Ion]

    [Ion] WCG Team Assistant

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    With you 100% here! We can't make anyone do anything or stick around, but if we're reasonable, realistic, and friendly, I think we can attract a few new crunchers to the team. And while some of us can do exclusively CEP2 without too much difficulty, others don't have the bandwidth to do so. IMO fairness trumps principle here :)
     
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  8. Norton

    Norton WCG-TPU Team Captain

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    It will all come together- challenge wise we generally request about 500 ppd, which is what a Phenom II X2 can output if running 12 hrs/day. We should stick with this ppd figure as well as running all projects and crunching for the duration of the challenge. This will qualify anyone for a prize drawing of donations provided by crunchers for crunchers. We have also been discussing another rig donation in PM's so expect this to be announced as well. :)

    As far as CEP2 goes....
    I'm pulling about 20-25 CEP2 wu's per day from my fleet- for my CEP2 contribution, count me in for shooting a 50-100% increase. ;)
     
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  9. [Ion]

    [Ion] WCG Team Assistant

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    Awesome! Let me know if there's anything I can contribute--I may not have time to pick up much by the time that the competition starts (seeing as it's only a bit over a week) but I can try to throw in something :toast:
     
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  10. Norton

    Norton WCG-TPU Team Captain

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    We're discussing the rig build for this challenge (October's)... we'll keep the prize pool small for the 9/20-9/22 Warm Up ;)
     
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  11. [Ion]

    [Ion] WCG Team Assistant

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    Ah, that makes much more sense. Now I remember the PMs you were mentioning. By Oct I should certainly be able to swing something in :)
     
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  12. manofthem

    manofthem

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    Back in the day when I joined, if it hadn't been for the awesomeness of the team members, it never would have had the same for me. I think the team has a great vibe, and that should encourage others!

    Oh yeah, it would be fantastic to gain a few new members to the team, get some fresh hardware crunching it out.
     
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  13. Chicken Patty

    Chicken Patty WCG Moderator Staff Member

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    Totally agree, its always worked. :). I don't think making people push their systems so hard or change things around too much will attract many.
     
  14. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    But will we actually focus on the CEP then? If fairness is an 'issue', wouldn't an "All projects" challenge make more sense? I am willing to say yes to that, but we mst make sure there is clarity on this before we can do any further planning.
     
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  15. Norton

    Norton WCG-TPU Team Captain

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    Here's my take*:
    * combining my thoughts and comments I've seen posted

    We can focus on CEP2 and open the challenge at WCG as a CEP2 challenge (points, runtime, increase in %, etc TBD..). However, Team members, existing, new, or returning, should be given the option to either run All Projects or CEP2 exclusively. We have seen several discussions going on that address various means of handling more CEP2 work as well as some of the difficulties in doing so. All of these tips (or links) can be included in the OP for the challenge thread when launched. Internal/Team prizes and etc can be addressed per previous discussion with lighter qualification requirements for such prizes.

    Going this route, with the discussed option, would be the best of both imho. As I mentioned earlier, I will step up my output of CEP2 work, and if some of our other members opt to do the same, we will make a good showing :)

    New/returning members contributing in either format will also enhance our challenge and our WCG performance.

    Thoughts?
     
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  16. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    Sounds good. :) I presume that those running all projects will simply not be focussing on CEP2, but crunch as usual while still contributing that way to the teams (overall) performance (while the challenge will lean on the CEP2 WUs for the the team score)?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
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  17. ThE_MaD_ShOt

    ThE_MaD_ShOt

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    I am going to run all projects as I have been. :toast:
     
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  18. Bow

    Bow

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    That's what I am doing. Not changing a thing
     
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  19. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    I will most likely focus on the CEP2 project, putting everything else on hold except GPU work for Folding@Home.
     
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  20. Norton

    Norton WCG-TPU Team Captain

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    Correct- Team output will be the total of everything crunched while the Challenge score will be just the CEP2 work.

    What are the thoughts on the type of challenge? Points is the usual but there are options:
    - results returned
    - runtime
    - points
    - % increase in ouput (iirc you can use any of the above for this)
    * not sure if I missed a type?
     
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  21. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    I'll let the 8350s and 3770k handle the CEP2 WUs, everything else will stay on its regular All Projects regimen. We don't even know if CEP2 can handle having that many WUs deployed at a time.
     
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  22. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    Those are all the challenge types there are. Points is so common it has not my preference; and the output increase types are fairer - I think - for small teams. So I suppose we should pick the latter, maybe the increase in results returned?
     
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  23. Chicken Patty

    Chicken Patty WCG Moderator Staff Member

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    I will be running all projects as well.
     
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  24. Norton

    Norton WCG-TPU Team Captain

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    I do understand your concern- However, points is the most common as it's the easiest one to see good progress on (i.e. a larger # than results returned).

    My issue on increase in results returned (%) is that it is easier for Teams to sandbag (i.e. cut down output a bit or holding back finished work before the challenge, then turn it up to get a better percentage/better challenge ranking)... which isn't fair to the science work as the increase in work done may be smaller than the "actual" increase in work done. Also, it penalizes Teams and/or crunchers who are turning up their as early as they can ahead of the challenge to ensure that they are ready.

    Based on this, my recommendation is either points (as usual) or straight runtime (for a change of pace)- they both represent the same work so there is no difference other than how it's counted on the challenge page.

    What do you think?
     
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  25. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    I forgot about the sandbagging. Good point. :) Let's say runtime then, if you agree. :D
     
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