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X850XT PE bios expectations

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by Synetic, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. Synetic New Member

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    I'm debating over an X800XL at $329 (CDN) vs the X850XT at $469 (CDN), both are awesome prices in Canada, but we're also on the brink of a PCI-E only future....so I have to decide on how long to keep the AGP system (A64 3200+, 1gb RAM, etc).

    Anyway, the X800XL doesn't seem to be as overclockable (from what I've rear) as the X850s... But I could be wrong. So, I'm curious to know what gains I can expect by simply doing an X850XTPE bios flash to an x850XT. No voltmods, or anything else besides air cooling upgrade (too chicken to try that at the moment ;) )

    Your expertise is greatly welcomed!
     
  2. intel igent

    intel igent New Member

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    just get the x850xtpe ;) youll love it, TRUST me :D
     
  3. Synetic New Member

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    Heh, the XT PE costs $600, I'm really not interested in that sort of price. Thats why the XL and XT are appealing
     
  4. MikeS3000 New Member

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    I guess it depends on your gaming expectations. Also, one of the most important things to think about are the resolutions that you will be running your games at. The XT is great if you're looking at 1600 x 1200 on most of your games, and I'd say that the XL is going to give you pretty comparable framerates as the XT when run at around 1280 x 1024/960. Both are great cards. The sweet spot in the ati lineup right now while looking at a price-performance standpoint has to be th XL. As for overclocking, you are absolutely correct when you say that the XT has more headroom than the XL. Most XT's can reach XT PE speeds with a simple overclocking tool and stock cooling.
     
  5. 65tweet

    65tweet New Member

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    If you're staying agp then the X800xt AIW is a super deal. They have dropped in price and have a $50 rebate. Dell had (may still have) it for $300 US with a $50 rebate! If youre not going to wait for ATI's latest greatest then I'd jump on it.
     
  6. Synetic New Member

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    I primarily run at 1024x768 actually, merely because I still use a 17" monitor. Until it dies, it's good enough for me. I agree, the XT is better for higher res, so I'm probably better off with the XL. By the time I need that replaced, my system shoudl be upgraded. I'm currently running an OC'd 9700, and it's done me well.
     
  7. AMDCam New Member

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    If you go to newegg.com you can get the XT PE for $450 and less for the XT. That's american but still, it's cheap.
     
  8. SPHERE New Member

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    sry but xl vs xt is a verry unfair compairason definatly go for the x850 i guarantee u u wont regret it :)
     
  9. Synetic New Member

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    I'm not comparing the XL-XT spec-wise, I'm asking what kind of gains one can achieve just by flashing the XT bios with the XTPE bios, without voltmodding.
     
  10. SPHERE New Member

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    i got as many as 5fps in some games on my x850xt just by flashing the xtpe bios :)
     
  11. Quazi New Member

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    Looking at the product comparison chart at ATI's web site, the X850XT differs from the X850XT PE in clock speeds and the pe reads MTriangles a bit faster. I modified my X850XT's bios by changing its' clocks speeds to PE speeds and reflashing it to my card. Not sure what a true XT PE bios can do besides enabling the ability to read the MTriangles a little faster, besides the faster clock speeds, which can be attained by a simple overclock or bios mod. I do notice faster fr's with my X850XT clocked to XT PE speeds. I have heard that ATI did something in there design of the X850XT to prevent flashing. It's good to know that this is still an option if I choose to do so. I have thoguht about it, but have been unable to find an X850XT PE bios. Plus, I am considering sending it to ViperJohn to have him work his magic mod on it. Well, it isn't magic, but it sure is an awesome mod. Anybody know where I can find an X850Xt PE bios?
     
  12. SPHERE New Member

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    Last edited: Jul 7, 2005
  13. thumper New Member

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    I went from a 9700 pro to a pcie XL and im well impressed managed to get 440 core and 550 mem out of it with nothing more than a silencer4 and a dolop of artic sliver5

    havnt tried any voltage mods on a 3500+ 64 chip i can still run most things at 1600X1200 including the newly released area51 If you have the money go for a better card if you dont go for the XL

    Do you have a pcie mobo? if not change the mobo and get a pcie card at least youl be future proof even if you dont notice much difference now
     
  14. Quazi New Member

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  15. SPHERE New Member

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    no prob dude :)

    are ya gonna mod it?

    got any questions?
     
  16. Quazi New Member

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    No go dude. This sucks. I have flashed many, many 9800Pro's to XT's, X800Pro VIVO's to XT PE's, and X800XT's to XT PE's. I picked up an X850XT PE AGP bios from the link page you left above. It even said SapphireX850XTPE AGP bios because I am running a Sapphire X850XT. But I got an error message. I did use the flashrom 2.40 for the first time. I do have version 2.37 that I have used many times over. Not sure if it is because of that. I am pretty sure flashrom 2.40 will get the job done as well as 2.37. Do you have a different bios than what was on that page at Overclock forum? If so, could you post a link? I had read somewhere that these Sapphire X850XT's had something installed or something in their building process that will not allow one to flash the bios with anything other than its' own bios. Let me know what you think and if you have a different X850XTPE AGP bios than what is listed on the overclock forum m8. I wouldn't mind giving it another go. Man, I am glad I remembered to save the original bios before I tried to flash it.
     
  17. intel igent

    intel igent New Member

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    quazi -- if you would have spent the extra $50 in the first place on an 850xtpe you would not be stressin' right now
     
  18. Quazi New Member

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    Well, while I was waiting for your reply to see if you have a different X850XTPE bios than what was on the OC site, I decided to do a little investigation on my own. The OC site actually has two X850XTPE bios. One was at the beginning of the thread and posted by Sphere. The other was posted by a freind of Spheres and was located a few pages into the thread. I took it that both bioses were identical seeing as Sphere was also waiting for his friend to post the X850XTPE bios. But after I had troubles, being unsucessfull in the flash, I decided to open both in RaBiT 1.7, along with my X850XT bios, and compare all three side by side. The bios I used differed from the other X850XTPE bios, and from my X850XT bios. The memory timings had been modified in the bios I tried. The other X850XTPE bios and my X850XT bios are identical in the memory timings. I think this may be the reason the flash was unsuccessful. The only reason I tried that particular bios is because it seemed to have come from a Sapphire card, and since my X850XT is a Sapphire, I thought it would be better to use it. So what I may do is change the memory timings in the bios I tried to match the other X850XTPE bios, which is also an exact match to the memory timings of my X850XT, then give that one another shot. I would still like to try your X850XTPE AGP bios since it is a good overclocking bios. As it is, my X850XT will not do no better than 545MHz on the core. From what I have read of others, I think it should do way better than this. I am hoping a successful flash to an X850XTPE will help in this dept. So if you could share your X850XTPE bios, I will definately give it a shot. And I do appreciate any help you are able to give me. I appreciate your time m8!
     
  19. Quazi New Member

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    Not true. I got this card retail new for $380. The BBA X850XTPE was $510. I found a Visiontek X850XTPE for $479. And I found a Sapphire X850XTPE for $489. So the difference is a bit more than $50. Anyway, not really stressing as you put it. Didn't think my post sounded that way. Sure didn't mean to come across that way for dure. HEHE I've already modified the bios with 540/594 clock speeds with RaBiT 1.7 and flashed it back. I am just curious what the extra vertex shaders will net me in game and benches, and curious if an X850XTPE bios will allow my core to clock a bit better. That's all.

    That's my personal issue, curiosity. I should learn to leave well enough alone. But I feel compelled to get by as cheap as I can, hence the X850XT for $380, and to get all I can out of every computer component I have installed. Fun and dangerous at the same, given my income. But having a new rma'd X800XT from Visiontek beside me that I have not yet listed to sell, to offset the costs of the X850XT, I am not going to be without if the unthinkable happens. I have flashed nearly every ATI card I have ever owned and have yet to muck one up over the last three years, so I am pretty confident that my curiosity isn't going to bite me in the butt this time around. HEHE
     
  20. SPHERE New Member

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    yan thats the worst peice of advice i have ever seen there is no point in buying a xtpe its the same as a xt ;)

    there are only 2 agp x850xtpe bioses on that guide one that xav posted and the one that that 1st dude found and its odd that u arnt able to flash it im kinda thinkin ur doin something wrong are u usin flashrom with the command -f -p 0 x850.bin ? o and btw the one that i have linked in the posts for agp bioses has been sucessfully loaded onto a x850xt agp before and i havent heard anything about this "lock"


    wtw what does the error say?

    there is no extra vertex shader in the pe bios btw ;)

    and those clocks are verry odd btw im suprised that it cant clock higher but i dont think the pe bios will fix that but then again we will see :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2005
  21. Quazi New Member

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    I am about ready to believe that what I have read about the retail Sapphire X850XT's aren't capable of flashing to an X850XTPE bios. Of course, I have only tried the one I spoke of above, the only one I can find. I have what I thought were two different X850XTPE bioses, but after opening them up with RaBit 1.7, I noticed the date and time are exact. Someone had just tweaked the memory timing on one of them. But, I have not been able to flash either to my X850XT. Oh well, not to disappointed. I got a great deal in it. If I can find a different X850XTPE AGP bios, I will give it a shot. If anyone has sucessfully flashed a Sapphire X850XT to a PE, please let me know. At least this way I will know it is possible with the right bios eh? I will keep a check on this thread just in case you, Sean, may have a X850XTPE AGP bios I can try. Thanks.
     
  22. SPHERE New Member

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    i edited look at prevous post

    that bios that i have linked realy should work i dont understand what is going wrong what isthe error message that u are getting?
     
  23. Quazi New Member

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    The m8 called Sphere on the OC forum, self proclaimed expert from what one of his posts reads, said that there 53 extra vertex shaders on a XTPE bios. I took it as so seeing as the XTPE reads MTriangles a little faster per ATI's Product comparison chart. That is neither here nor there really.

    I can't remember how many sucessful flashes I ahve performed over the years. I am confident I am using the correct command, the one you listed here. The only difference is that I am using Flashrom 2.40. Never used this Flasrom version. I always have used 2.37 This maybe the problem. I will try 2.37 and see.

    If I get the error again, I will post it for you to read. Back at it again. I'll let you know.
     
  24. Quazi New Member

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    The error message I am getting reads: ERROR 0FL01 in big reddish letters, HEHE I use the command: flashrom -f -p 0 X850XTPE.bin (which is the name I gave the bios) When I get the error message, I press 1 to get back to the A prompt and then type: flashrom -f -p 0 backup.bin (which is the name of my original bios) I tried using Flashrom 2.37 this time around with the same results. One thing I do notice totally different when comparing my XT bios to the XTPE bios in RaBiT 1.7 is under the Logging tab. Every set of numbers and letters under that tab are different down to about half way. I remember where I heard about the Sapphire cards being locked to bios flashes. The online retailer that I purchased from told me this. But he said that he "thought" he had heard or read something to this effect. He and I are friends and I told him I wouldn't think it would be this way. Seems he may be right. Do you have any idea about the error message and what it is telling me? Any ideas on how to get around it or get it to flash? If not, I will live. Like I said before, I have modified the bios to XTPE clock speeds. I would like to get the core to clock better though. I may have to do a volt mod but these cards don't have the R1597 resistor to bring the resistence down on in order to raised the voltage. And I haven't found a definitive guide to do the mod yet also. You input is welcome m8. And again, thanks for taking the time to help me figure this out.
     
  25. SPHERE New Member

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    lol that was a joke rofl

    try using atiflash?
     

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