Discussion in 'News' started by btarunr, Mar 30, 2010.
i preffer to use 3 5770 than ONE hotter and louder GTX480
So much speculation...I honestly don't think nVidia is going down in flames here. For one reason or another XFX decided not to produce the GF100 cards, could be yeilds, could be the relatively poor performance and heat, whatever. I doubt the fud's claim that nvidia kicked them to the curb, that seems ludicrous to me. They've been a successful partner in the past, it's not in nvidia's best interest to get rid of a successful board partner.
I almost don't even care about this stuff right now, with the release of the gtx480/470 the ati fans are cheering publicly, and the nvidia fans are mumbling quietly off in the corner. I'm sort of glad nvidia is taking a little bit of a bash atm, one gpu maker in decided control of the market is bad for us all, But the two camps going at it like this is just exhausting. I'm honestly pretty sick of the gpu wars and it's various camps of devotees. I've had cards from both companies be good products, and the bashing is just too juvenile. It's splitting the PC gaming community apart (and has for a while) and creates situations like Batman: AA and Crysis, where support is thrown wholly behind one manufacturer of gpus and not another. Which does a great disservice to all PC gamers by narrowing our choices...I guess that was sort of a rant, sorry.
I just have to say this, just in case people start going into fanboy rants....
No fan of enthusiast hardware should EVER rout for the complete demise of competition. That is the absolute worst thing that can happen to any consumer. So, despite the difficulties at Nvidia, and the fact that I chose to go with ATI this generation, I really hope that they pull out of this strong.
I'm a bit shocked at some of the comments here. First of all in none of the sources I read did it state that they will not sell the GTX400 cards period, but that they won't at launch. It doesn't mean that they won't start a bit later on... My guess is that they did not want to disappoint their loyal customers with poor availability.
Secondly about Nvidia being a sinking ship, seriously? We're talking about the second or third largest hardware company. Their IP portfolio has more pages than the Bible. We cannot even begin to compare it to 3dfx because the current situation is so much different: 1)The graphic market is huge and so are the players involved in it 2) Nvidia has spread out in many different fields, like a moderns day Lernaean hydra(Geforce, computing, ion, optimus, tegra, etc.) 3) They sit on a huge stockpile of cash 4)Even tho I don't like their last 2 generations, we need a second player on the market to keep Ati's greediness in line.
The actual reason is in the startpost:
Basicly the GTX 480 is a powerhungry chip which barely beats the AMD's high-end flagship. Therefore your paying 500 euro's for a high end card which is 10% more power usage and deliveres up to marginal improvements compared to a Ati card.
I cant say they are wrong, i woud'nt like to have a card in my computer that chrunches at 95 celcius default.
(Yes, I'm very late to the thread)
It happened before with FX5800 (dustbuster and flame thrower) and then NVDA released GF6800 whis was a winner. So, imo GTX480 will be a stepping stone for more refined GTX line in the near future.
whats interesting is if XFX pulled out why didnt any of the others?
if thats the case maybe XFX seriously lucked out..
since the currently availably coolers cant really cool the existing GPUs nicely and the new Nvidia ones are even hotter its not gonna be a big seller and a warranty nightmare.
100% agreed. And what everyone seems to fail to realize is that the industry goes back and forth, in every sector, but particularly in the graphics area. ATi will have some real winner products for a while, and nVidia will have some real winner products for a while.
R300 vs. NV30 - ATi had the lead
R350 vs. NV35 - ATi increase the lead
R423 vs. NV45 - nVidia decreases ATi's lead
R580 vs. G70 - nVidia pulls even with ATi
R580+ vs. G71 - nVidia takes the lead
R600 vs. G80 - nVidia increases the lead and we have the reverse of what he have today(R600 comes 6 months late, and is a power hungy expensive disappointment)
RV670 vs. G92 - nVidia's lead stays pretty steady
RV770 vs. GT200 - ATi decreases nVidia's lead
RV870 vs. GF100 - ATi takes the lead with a similar result to R600 vs. G80 but in reverse
It is a cycle that we've seen a few times in the past, and will likely continue to see in the future. NVidia will work on their GPUs to come back, then ATi will do the same, and so on.
We will soon see how's GTX480 perform.
Probably better for those EVGA and BFG alike to bundled up GTX 480 with up to specs PSU to make sure it works no problem.
This is the healthiest view of the situation I've seen for a while.
You know, this sums it up beautifully in a way, I'm just worried about the marketshares a bit. There are so many devoted to invidia at this point that regardless of ATIs current products portfolio, people will just keep buying invidia, and ATI will sink. I can't see them going completely out of business, but if they end up doing integrated solutions only, or something like that, I think we'd all suffer.
Why is everyone saying this is because of warranty issue's ? The card has been out 4 days and you guys somehow conjure up that it has a high failure rate ?
warranty and supply shortage...
but anyone wonder about the price of of it? this monolithic chip is not cheap....all combined...XFX say:where is my profit?
In a statement to partners Nvidia said it will reduce warranty period from 24 to 12 months on the Fermi line up.
@newtekie1, yeah, that can go on forth and back as long as partners can endure nvidia's treatment... and by the looks of it, XFX didn't want to put up with it anymore. FWIW progress also comes from gathering a series of partners around you that help in the development of products. For now, Nvidia has only swallowed what it considered useful and marginalized what it didn't, like XFX. That's not how a healthy business should be run if you want to consider longevity. Time will tell, but from the looks of it, they only managed to stay active this long because of those around them that supported them.
I wonder how many partners preordered Fermi cards in Dec / Nov / Whatever last year? i.e. filled Nvidia's pockets with money for non-existing products that helped them somewhat stay this long in the charts! Does anyone think partners will still be around if this happens the next time?
The card has been "out" 4 days to the public opinion but manufacturers like XFX have got the gpu's weeks ago, enough time for extreme lab testing.
However, I'm not sure about the true cause that led XFX to skip GTX 480/470, if I had to guess I'd say it's a matter of yields. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if XFX takes back in the next days.
I've owned Nvidia's and ATi's and I've been very satisfied with both. I think everyone on this forum agrees that competition is the best for all of us, so be it, I'd love to see a closer 50/50 market share between greens & reds.
I read somewhere that in Nvidia is trying to get rid of their GT2xx chips so in order to buy Fermi you have to buy a crapload of older chips, which haven't been selling very well.
10 GTX480's + 10 GTX470's must be purchased along with 20 GT220's and 20 GT240's.
Along with 20 G210s, and 20 GTS250s.
Guess XFX had ATI's for that market segment.
Right, I knew I was forgetting something, about 40 other cards LOL.
If I knew the forum post I read was based on Semi-Accurate I probably would have kept my mouth shut.
If I were a scientist I would be all about building a super computer with 4 or 8 470/480's and an air conditioning unit. Depending on the country you're in, you could get the tax refund for business purposes... I'm assuming, since science can be a business!
For me, the 450 looks to perform way better then my EVGA 275 896MB. But I'll actually hold that speculation until I see some real-world testing and retail cost!
EDIT: I wouldn't be at all surprised if XFX contracts for revision 470/480's.
Something in my business intuitive gut says that XFX did not want to take on high RMA returns due to multiple reasons. XFX may have also wanted moar chips then NV could part to them and figured the production of few PCB's would cost more than the production of a large batch of PCB's. This cost then rises for the consumer. If the consumer can not afford the product, XFX loses return, interest and paying the bills. From a business standpoint, the HD5000 series has been very successful on 'sales'. The 'said' comings of the HD6000 series, while speculatively, make investors leave NV if... Well, there are many ifs, speculation is cheap!
Product Quality, Service and Warranty, Price Point and driver functionality are the main driving force behind the majority of 'consumer consumption'.
However a lack of availability on demand is also key to what will drive consumers to another market. NV should have learned this with the 200 series!
"Green with NV"
Thats exactly what I was thinking.XFX isnt leaving nvidia their just skipping the 2 high end cards for now because they know that nvidia is going to be releasing a revamp of the F100 (F110...maybe?) soon just like the NV30 (5800) to the NV35 (5900).XFX knows this and is waiting for the updated reference design.
What was the time scale between the nv30 and the nv35 like 3 months?
I know that is the case with AMD vs. Intel, when Intel was behind brand loyalty kept people buying Intel. However, I don't think the graphics card industry suffers from that as much. The bulk of buyers are going to be average consumers and I don't think the average consumer has been totally brainwashed that nVidia is the only player in town like they have been with Intel. ATi has had a fair bit of success, and if they can keep their current success for a decent amount of time, I can see them regaining a lot of market share.
From what I've seen, nVidia has acually been pretty good to it's partners. The only thing bad that they've done is let their products get stale. They left G92 out on the market for too long, despite it beeing a more than capable product, the partners like new products to release press statements about every 6 months.
You also seem to have the roles reverse, a lot of these partners wouldn't even exist today if it wasn't for nVidia and their successful products. Where was BFG, eVGA, and XFX before G70? All three jumped on the nVidia wave and rode it until this point, before G70 I don't think anyone would have even know who any of them were. XFX has just jumped from one wave to the other, if they can ride the ATi wave to even greater success I'm glad for them. Really it makes sense too. XFX is probably the best ATi partner right now, with little competition. No other ATi partner offers lifetime warranties, no other partner offers as good of bundles, XFX has a leg up on the ATi partners, and they would have a tuffer time in the nVidia market.
This sucks what they did. Out of all the 470 & 480's so far. I was liking their design on them. I'm a big fan of XFX. I guess theres always evga to fall back on.
Wonders if the price of there past cards will drop now since theres no more or will it go up for limited quantity and owning a piece of them to hold on to. just wonderin
Not only isn't nVidia second or third largest 'hardware company' (like you call it) but they're not even in the top 20.
Well, like some of you have mentioned already, warranty may be an issue.
At work (computer repair), I can see a bigger failure rate of nVidia card over Ati cards. While nVidia does hold a bigger market share, it seems to me that a bigger percentage of cards die. 6000, 7000 & 8000 series cards seem to be very sensitive to heat. When a card gets clogged with dust, they just die. While Ati cards don't die when clogged but shut themselves off on time. Dust is a big problem but at least Ati cards save themselves.
We sold some computers with Asus 9800GX2's (refrence design) ... i can tell you that every single one of them died (within Asus' warranty of three years).
To true, twas what I was trying to say on the 2nd page.
Seams forward thinking is in serious short supply these days
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