Easy RhinoThe games I have played look quite nice and have been a lot of fun.

That's good news, not everyone plays your games though and same from my perspective too.

ojoqromThat's good news, not everyone plays your games though and same from my perspective too.

Cool story. In the meantime 50 million PS5 units says it is a fantastic product. And being a snob about consoles is basement dwelling nonsense.

Good time for Bloodborne Remaster launch, no?!

ojoqrom3X the RT!!!!!!

When RDNA3 is around 50% faster in RT...

I bet the "2-4X" faster RT claim is while using some really low base resolution upscaled with this PSSR thing.

Easy RhinoCool story. In the meantime 50 million PS5 units says it is a fantastic product. And being a snob about consoles is basement dwelling nonsense.

What a wonderful reply.

Just because it sold 50M doesn't mean it's good. It's just that of the current options for the newest gen consoles (only 2 options), it's sold the most. Woopy.

How many exclusives does it have though. Yeah, not many, and they end up on PC anyway.

This is the most pathetic generation of consoles and the games are equally crap. And honestly, if you prefer crap, that says more about you than me or who you are replying to. And I have a PS5, I've already proven this. And I also feel same about the PC gaming industry as a whole too.

evernessinceIt's baffling to me that more game devs aren't pushing for the use of AI to actually make NPCs smarter and allowing the world to feel more alive.

It's because ironically all of this "AI" shit that gets thrown around 24/7 couldn't be further from actual general purpose AI, the reason you haven't seen it being used for AI in NPCs is because no one has anything that can be used as AI, it simply doesn't exist.

"AI" might just be the most most misused word that has ever existed.

In my opinion, the best living room console is the Steam Deck on a dock. It works great and supports any controller and HDR. Plus my entire Steam library goes with it. It supports HDR as well, and its cost is attractive. I can play most of the great PS5 games and Xbox games as well.

Graphics aren't everything. Going back to my original point, PC gaming has become too expensive. Inventories are starting to backlog somewhat, and we are seeing price drops as well, but not quite enough. Doesn't help that 90% of the world's chips are coming from the same company.

With that being said, I am attracted to this product as I have never owned a PS5.

ojoqromSo just behind a 7700 XT.

www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7700-xt.c3911

So they are replacing the RX 6700 like GPU of the old console with a 7700.

Yay 15% - 20% performance!

3X the RT!!!!!!

When RDNA3 is around 50% faster in RT...


:confused::laugh::banghead:

Imagine thinking the upgrade is a 1:1 comparison with performance leaps of PC GPU.

The announcement has really shown the downfall of gaming.

Still trying to understand why Sony want to release this thing, it suggests one of two things.

1 - They do make a profit on consoles sold, so have a financial interest in releasing a new one.
2 - They consider graphic fidelity key to them having a successful software eco system (this is bad news as we already over emphasis junk like RT instead of gameplay in game development and further drags up game dev costs).

So far games released on the PS5 perform quite well on it, but this spec jump on the PS5 pro looks pretty significant, so I wouldnt be surprised if we had games not reaching FPS target once PS5 Pro if the target for optimisation.

Still waiting for PS5 controllers to go down in price as mine has stick drift and their rubbish 1 year warranties means I need to buy one to fix it. Just noticed wow some official PS5 controllers are now nearly £100, absolute bonkers.

ojoqromNice projection.

15-20% is meaningless and will not show much if anything to the end user, it will be a waste.

But please do believe the markeing jargon! money money money, fill the pockets.

They can't do it with games, so bank on the wannabe know-it-alls "Upgrading".

This is incorrect. These hardware console companies -- starting with Nintendo back in the Nineties -- have repeatedly stated that gross margins from base console hardware sales is extremely slim. They make the lion's share of profit from software sales ("games") as well as peripheral sales (like controllers, extra AC adaptors, cases for portable devices) and merchandise.

The main thing a mid-generation upgrade does is keep attention on the brand as a whole.

Materially software developers will be required to support the original PS5 hardware with games developed for the PS5 Pro. We have seen this multiple times before in previous generations.

In fact the entire videogame industry has long since moved on from the archaic paradigm of "buy this physical media, stick it in your device, and play forever" to one of software updates (patches, etc.), payware DLCs, GaaS, subscriptions and microtransactions.

The notion that Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo rakes in the big profits via console sales is antiquated. We see this type of borderline naivety quite frequently online. Remember that revenue does not equal profit. The COGS of these consoles are very high.

And to be perfectly realistic, Microsoft has mid-generation Xbox Series upgrade prototypes sitting in a lab somewhere. Whether or not they will ever hit a retail shelf is a mystery but for sure both Sony and Microsoft put these in their roadmap YEARS ago. It's not like Sony decided on the PS5 Pro a few months ago.

Vayra86Well not just that, look at Cyberpunk. It literally turned to shit partly because it had to support console versions woefully out of date. The PC launch of the game wasn't even thát bad in comparison.

It directly harms the idea that used to come with consoles: games all run the same way. They run properly.

This is also incorrect.

Remember that CyberPunk 2077 was announced *LONG* before the PS5 and Xbox Series hardware was in existence. It was intended for PS4/Xbox One + contemporary PC hardware.

CP2077 development was kicked off in 2012. Quick, what Sony and Microsoft consoles were on the market at the time? Pat your back if you answered PS3 and Xbox 360.

Delay after delay lead to it slipping one year, then another, and more all while CDPR intended on it to run satisfactorily on PS4/Xbox One hardware BECAUSE THEY HAD THE BIGGEST INSTALL BASE BY NUMBER OF UNITS.

If you want to sell a bunch of games, design it to run on a bunch of hardware units in deployment. When CP2077 started development, PS4/Xbox One were The Next Generation.

CDPR did not have to "support console versions woefully out of date" [sic]. They bungled the entire development process and implemented apparently zero QA. They knew exactly what sort of dumpster fire they were releasing. There should have been ZERO surprises to CDPR about the quality of the PS4 and Xbox One versions game performance. They wrote the code.

Remember that the day before PS5 and Xbox Series released, they had a marketshare of 0% respectively. It would be years before those two new console families would have unit install bases that would exceed their predecessors.

CDPR completely bungled the CP2077 release to the point that Sony actually yanked the title from their game store shortly after launch and refunded unhappy customers (a rarity from Sony). The game suffered for years as a misshapen game until it was finally updated to the point it was decent. But to this date, Phantom Liberty was the only DLC. The highly touted multi-player mode was cancelled. There are still a broad number of defects and shortcomings with this game. Sure, the graphics look great an adequately appointed PC.

These two responses exemplify part of the tragedy of today's videogame industry. A lot of blame is being pointed at the wrong direction for tons of wrong reasons and justifications.

A lot of the ills of the videogame industry fall squarely on the shoulders of the audience. Don't spend your money on crappy games. We saw countless people here pre-order CP2077 at full retail and get burned by a comically bad release. Buying crappy games at full price just encourages game publishers to release more crappy games and increase the MSRP.

Hell, even Nintendo is feels a little of the pressure of today's marketplace. First-party Nintendo titles do occasionally go on sale here in the USA, even Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom has seen the occasional $10 discount.

It's amusing to note that I'm not the only one who thinks gamers (as a whole) suck.

This guy -- who runs a videogame news site

www.dsogaming.com/articles/psa-predatory-microtransactions-dlcs-stop-complaining-stop-playing/

basically says the same thing.

Vote with your dollars. If you whine but keep opening your wallet, publishers will keep doing what they're doing. Unfortunately the videogame audience is perpetually naive and immature.

BArmsGood time for Bloodborne Remaster launch, no?!

A hunter can dream... Maybe they'll do a remake instead as a PS6 launch title, which means is should come out late 2027. Similar to Demon's Souls. Hopefully with the hardware that ships by then it'll have ray traced shadows and whatever else works for the look.

Above all else, I hope they keep it close to the look of the original. There are some areas Demon's Souls remake is just wrong from an environmental storytelling POV (e.g. tower of latria is wrong, some of the enemies, couple of the bosses, etc.).

RavenasI can buy an Xbox series x and a PS5 for the price for a launch 7900 XTX, and get the same level of enjoyment from the consoles. The PC market is too expensive these days.

The PC market has shifted to Adults (30+) with disposable income and away from Teen's and young adults (25 and under).

When I was in my teens it was doable for me to build a pc and it not break the bank. If I was 18 now working the typical job someone that age is no way you could afford $1000+ gpu's.

So I see your point.

I'm don't even own a console these days but I like this launch because it means more dev's will optimize for RDNA 4 RT in the Pro console which should benefit us on the PC side as well.

With the emphasis on RT, too bad they didn't add more memory and bandwidth. Even though RT is likely to be a lot better on the PS5 Pro, it will not surprise me if the memory capacity and bandwidth is going to hold back it's capabilities. It's basically a downclocked enhanced 7800XT with 50GB less bandwidth that is shared. Will be interesting if there will be any RDNA4 bandwidth efficiency improvements.

chrcolukThe announcement has really shown the downfall of gaming.

Still trying to understand why Sony want to release this thing, it suggests one of two things.

1 - They do make a profit on consoles sold, so have a financial interest in releasing a new one.
2 - They consider graphic fidelity key to them having a successful software eco system (this is bad news as we already over emphasis junk like RT instead of gameplay in game development and further drags up game dev costs).

So far games released on the PS5 perform quite well on it, but this spec jump on the PS5 pro looks pretty significant, so I wouldnt be surprised if we had games not reaching FPS target once PS5 Pro if the target for optimisation.

Still waiting for PS5 controllers to go down in price as mine has stick drift and their rubbish 1 year warranties means I need to buy one to fix it. Just noticed wow some official PS5 controllers are now nearly £100, absolute bonkers.

I don't see the incentive for it from Sony's and/or Microsoft's perspective. Not just the PS5 Pro, but the PS4 Pro before it and the Xbox One X. However, as a consumer, I like it as I get to benefit from it. So it doesn't really matter the incentive is for doing it. Even if Sony only did it because they thought MS was but aren't, I still win. Even if it is hit and miss on what developers opt to do, if they even upgrade their games. Be it higher IQ, higher resolution, solid frame rate, higher frame rate, etc.

As far as frame rate and stuff, even if you can't hit 120fps or 60fps or whatever, I have a VRR TV, so again, I win. :D

cvaldesThis is incorrect. These hardware console companies -- starting with Nintendo back in the Nineties -- have repeatedly stated that gross margins from base console hardware sales is extremely slim. They make the lion's share of profit from software sales ("games") as well as peripheral sales (like controllers, extra AC adaptors, cases for portable devices) and merchandise.

The main thing a mid-generation upgrade does is keep attention on the brand as a whole.

Materially software developers will be required to support the original PS5 hardware with games developed for the PS5 Pro. We have seen this multiple times before in previous generations.

In fact the entire videogame industry has long since moved on from the archaic paradigm of "buy this physical media, stick it in your device, and play forever" to one of software updates (patches, etc.), payware DLCs, GaaS, subscriptions and microtransactions.

The notion that Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo rakes in the big profits via console sales is antiquated. We see this type of borderline naivety quite frequently online. Remember that revenue does not equal profit. The COGS of these consoles are very high.

And to be perfectly realistic, Microsoft has mid-generation Xbox Series upgrade prototypes sitting in a lab somewhere. Whether or not they will ever hit a retail shelf is a mystery but for sure both Sony and Microsoft put these in their roadmap YEARS ago. It's not like Sony decided on the PS5 Pro a few months ago.


This is also incorrect.

Remember that CyberPunk 2077 was announced *LONG* before the PS5 and Xbox Series hardware was in existence. It was intended for PS4/Xbox One + contemporary PC hardware.

CP2077 development was kicked off in 2012. Quick, what Sony and Microsoft consoles were on the market at the time? Pat your back if you answered PS3 and Xbox 360.

Delay after delay lead to it slipping one year, then another, and more all while CDPR intended on it to run satisfactorily on PS4/Xbox One hardware BECAUSE THEY HAD THE BIGGEST INSTALL BASE BY NUMBER OF UNITS.

If you want to sell a bunch of games, design it to run on a bunch of hardware units in deployment. When CP2077 started development, PS4/Xbox One were The Next Generation.

CDPR did not have to "support console versions woefully out of date" [sic]. They bungled the entire development process and implemented apparently zero QA. They knew exactly what sort of dumpster fire they were releasing. There should have been ZERO surprises to CDPR about the quality of the PS4 and Xbox One versions game performance. They wrote the code.

Remember that the day before PS5 and Xbox Series released, they had a marketshare of 0% respectively. It would be years before those two new console families would have unit install bases that would exceed their predecessors.

CDPR completely bungled the CP2077 release to the point that Sony actually yanked the title from their game store shortly after launch and refunded unhappy customers (a rarity from Sony). The game suffered for years as a misshapen game until it was finally updated to the point it was decent. But to this date, Phantom Liberty was the only DLC. The highly touted multi-player mode was cancelled. There are still a broad number of defects and shortcomings with this game. Sure, the graphics look great an adequately appointed PC.

These two responses exemplify part of the tragedy of today's videogame industry. A lot of blame is being pointed at the wrong direction for tons of wrong reasons and justifications.

A lot of the ills of the videogame industry fall squarely on the shoulders of the audience. Don't spend your money on crappy games. We saw countless people here pre-order CP2077 at full retail and get burned by a comically bad release. Buying crappy games at full price just encourages game publishers to release more crappy games and increase the MSRP.

Hell, even Nintendo is feels a little of the pressure of today's marketplace. First-party Nintendo titles do occasionally go on sale here in the USA, even Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom has seen the occasional $10 discount.

It's amusing to note that I'm not the only one who thinks gamers (as a whole) suck.

This guy -- who runs a videogame news site

www.dsogaming.com/articles/psa-predatory-microtransactions-dlcs-stop-complaining-stop-playing/

basically says the same thing.

Vote with your dollars. If you whine but keep opening your wallet, publishers will keep doing what they're doing. Unfortunately the videogame audience is perpetually naive and immature.

Hey, I said - in part because of different configurations. I know the project was mismanaged. But there is no denying the lack of focus is part of this game's problem. In scope, but also platform support. The console versions were a lot worse than the PC version. And having to support multiple versions of it adds to the burden.

What happens in dev land is this: there are as much as six to even eight console generations to support counting Xbox and PS together. That plus PC makes 9 builds, 9 releases for every little patch you need, with PC being its own thing too. Optimization won't be as fine grained for every console platform, it will be more sweeping in terms of quality settings, asset removal, etc. When devs had to do this for one console, they could paintstakingly go over every scene and hand craft the optimization if they wanted to. You're not doing that eight or nine times.

Vayra86Hey, I said - in part because of different configurations. I know the project was mismanaged. But there is no denying the lack of focus is part of this game's problem. In scope, but also platform support. The console versions were a lot worse than the PC version. And having to support multiple versions of it adds to the burden.

Well, that's just piss poor project management, plain and simple. Don't make excuses for CDPR.

For some reason, Blizzard Games is able to manage and support a live service game called Overwatch 2 on multiple platforms including the frequently derided "toylike" Switch as well as PC, Xbox One, Xbox Series, PS4, PS5. Epic does the same with a game called Fortnite and also supports iOS, Android, and macOS on top of the Overwatch 2 platforms. Both of those publishers release new versions of those titles simultaneously across all supported platforms.

And if your devs need some extra time to optimize software on a less powerful platform, take your time. Warner Bros. delayed their Hogwarts Legacy release on Switch for that exact reason.

CDPR spent almost the entire CP2077 development cycle with actual released PS4/Xbox One hardware. They probably only got their hands on PS5/Xbox Series dev kits toward the very end. They have zero excuses for the shoddy performance of the title on PS4/Xbox One. It was supposed to run satisfactorily on that generation of console hardware because there were a combined 100+ million units deployed at the time of launch.

And remember, the game ran in backwards compatibility mode on at least one of the new gen consoles (maybe it was PS5). It wasn't even running native code to the new hardware. Even the more powerful hardware didn't make CDPR's crappy code any less of a train wreck.

DenverThey could go further and jump to GDDR6 24Gbps @ 21Gbps (to favor efficiency). But I imagine that the PS5 Pro is significantly constrained by the tight BOM budget to ensure it maintains an attractive price point.

"The PS5 Pro GPU will be larger and utilize faster system memory to bolster ray tracing performance, boasting up to three times the speed of the regular PS5."

Just wanted to point out. This isn't very accurate. Faster memory will not magically improve RT processing by 3x... certainly the PS5 pro's GPU is not purely RDNA3, it must be customized to implement parts inherent to RDNA4.

3x can be achieved with a higher power allowance, more execution units, RDNA3's generational uplift, faster clocks and bandwidth. It's not as if the PS5 is particularly fast to begin with.

as far as budget gaming goes, I would recommend a PS5 Pro + $800 LG C3 OLED 42" 120hz + gamefly subscription for games and buy no games.

honestly for that price you couldn't beat that kind of a setup. would be a decent gaming experience honestly. if I were a 9 to 5 type of guy this is probably what I would do, luckily my job doesn't burn me out, so I don't mind PC gaming still. but if I had to work 40-50 hrs a week i don't think i'd have the patient for PC gaming, I'd rather just have that plug n play experience and kick up the lazy boy recliner.

Dr. Dro3x can be achieved with a higher power allowance, more execution units, RDNA3's generational uplift, faster clocks and bandwidth. It's not as if the PS5 is particularly fast to begin with.

PlayStation 5 hardware performance isn't the biggest issue with the platform.

Let's be real. The frequently derided wimpy "toylike" Nintendo Switch has utterly crushed PS5 and Xbox Series. Microsoft themselves admitted they lost the console wars to Sony (some say generations ago) despite the Series X having better hardware specs than PS5 on paper.

Good gaming has very little to do about how many polygons you can throw onto the screen or how many gigabytes of texture maps you can load into memory.

To do what?? lose to Steam Deck ?

WaweqTo do what?? lose to Steam Deck ?

So you can play the current....checks notes.....7 exclusives in better performance and the next 3 exclusives before PS6 comes out.

sepheronxWhat a wonderful reply.

Just because it sold 50M doesn't mean it's good. It's just that of the current options for the newest gen consoles (only 2 options), it's sold the most. Woopy.

How many exclusives does it have though. Yeah, not many, and they end up on PC anyway.

This is the most pathetic generation of consoles and the games are equally crap. And honestly, if you prefer crap, that says more about you than me or who you are replying to. And I have a PS5, I've already proven this. And I also feel same about the PC gaming industry as a whole too.

If you are a tech company and you design a product that sells 50 million units (and counting) you would say you made a good product. Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of consumers to buy a console. PCs are way overpriced and filled with Windows ads and spyware. Half the premade manufacturers are garbage. The companies are poorly run and offer terrible support. So, you might as well save a ton of money and buy a console. This has been the argument for consoles since the Nintendo came out. Again, I don't know how people who have never built a product in their life pretend to be so surprised Sony is putting out a pro model of a highly successfully piece of tech...

I don't get the issue. If you don't want to spend any more than you have to, get the PS5. Sony isn't holding anyone hostage here, just giving you another choice. If you want what should at least be better and more consistent frame rates and visuals (fewer dips, less frame scaling), even on today's titles, get the Pro. Sony wouldn't waste the time, money and resources on a Pro model unless they felt it worthwhile for Playstation as a whole. It could all be a mirage, but again, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything. It might also allow them to capitalize on a higher priced SKU, while lowering the price of the slim. MS has had 2 distinct consoles for some time now, at least PS5 isn't going bargain bin specs like Series S.

cvaldesPlayStation 5 hardware performance isn't the biggest issue with the platform.

Let's be real. The frequently derided wimpy "toylike" Nintendo Switch has utterly crushed PS5 and Xbox Series. Microsoft themselves admitted they lost the console wars to Sony (some say generations ago) despite the Series X having better hardware specs than PS5 on paper.

Good gaming has very little to do about how many polygons you can throw onto the screen or how many gigabytes of texture maps you can load into memory.

Don't get me wrong, I've loved games as far back as the 16 bit era, one of my all time favorite games was released in 1988


I think Nintendo achieved the right balance of fun, accessibility and marketability with the Switch. Sony is too obsessed with being ESG clean, and Microsoft just lost their way after the Xbox One. They will sadly go the way of Sega soon. It's inevitable, I reckon.

I'd be much more receptive of consoles weren't for the blanket ban on ESRB AO titles.

I suspect Microsoft's next generation console will be their last hardware gaming device. They are really just trying to buy time for a sustainable cloud gaming service to coalesce whether it be their own or someone else's. If that doesn't materialize in 5-6 years, they will probably sell off Zenimax/Bethesda and eventually downsize the Xbox division to something like a PC game storefront.

And at some point that will probably fritter away into nothing just like pretty much all of their consumer businesses have gone (mobile, Zune, Groove Music, MSN, whatever).

Sony has a much better chance as a large media conglomerate (film, television, music, etc.) in addition to their hardware businesses.

Easy RhinoIf you are a tech company and you design a product that sells 50 million units (and counting) you would say you made a good product. Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of consumers to buy a console. PCs are way overpriced and filled with Windows ads and spyware. Half the premade manufacturers are garbage. The companies are poorly run and offer terrible support. So, you might as well save a ton of money and buy a console. This has been the argument for consoles since the Nintendo came out. Again, I don't know how people who have never built a product in their life pretend to be so surprised Sony is putting out a pro model of a highly successfully piece of tech...

Except that back during covid, it was nearly holding a gun to your head. That's when people made these purchases too. Because people were stuck inside and needing entertainment.

If Sony is doing so well, they wouldn't be shutting down studios and laying off hundreds of people. Maybe I never built the product as you assume, but I doubt you have as well or successful yourself if you think their current play is considered a success.

Japan studio anyone?

When you are more or less the only one in the market for this specific need, of course it will sell. But guess what sold better? Switch. Why? Because it has something that PS5 or Xbox kinda lacks in. It's called "Games"