Tuesday, December 20th 2011

AMD's Own HD 7970 Performance Expectations?

Ahead of every major GPU launch, both NVIDIA and AMD give out a document to reviewers known as Reviewer's Guide, in which both provide guidelines (suggestions, not instructions), to reviewers to ensure new GPUs are given a fair testing. In such documents, the two often also give out their own performance expectations from the GPUs they're launching, in which they compare the new GPUs to either previous-generation GPUs from their own brand, or from the competitors'. Apparently such a performance comparison between the upcoming Radeon HD 7970 and NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 580, probably part of such a document, got leaked to the internet, which 3DCenter.org re-posted. The first picture below, is a blurry screenshot of a graph in which the two GPUs are compared along a variety of tests, at a resolution of 2560 x 1600. A Tweakers.net community member recreated that graph in Excel, using that data (second picture below).

A couple of things here are worth noting. Reviewer guide performance numbers are almost always exaggerated, so if reviewers get performance results lower than 'normal', they find it abnormal, and re-test. It's an established practice both GPUs vendors follow. Next, AMD Radeon GPUs are traditionally good at 2560 x 1600. For that matter, the performance gap between even the Radeon HD 6970 and GeForce GTX 580 narrows a bit at that resolution.

Source: 3DCenter.org
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101 Comments on AMD's Own HD 7970 Performance Expectations?

#1
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
John Doe said:
I've an IPC 610 certification and have recapped a 1250W unit.
And? IPC 610 means you can perform:

# Hardware installation
# Soldering criteria, including lead free connections
# Soldered requirements for connecting to terminals
# Soldered connection requirements for plated-through holes
# Surface mounting criteria for chip components, leadless and leaded chip carriers
# Swaged hardware and heatsink requirements of mechanical assemblies
# Component mounting criteria for DIPS, socket pins and card edge connectors
# Jumper wire assembly requirements
# Solder fillet dimensional criteria for all major SMT component groups
# Soldering, such as tombstoning, dewetting, voiding and others
# Criteria for component damage, laminate conditions, cleaning and coating


I am a few steps beyond that at my current job...Recapping a PSU is also pretty idiot proof unless you can't follow + and -'s on a PCB. You still didn't answer my question. Have you personally ever bypassed the OCP on anything? I have a couple of mobo's and GPU's not mention CPU's hardmodded.
Posted on Reply
#2
Unregistered
cdawall said:
I am a few steps beyond that at my current job...Recapping a PSU is also pretty idiot proof unless you can't follow + and -'s on a PCB. You still didn't answer my question. Have you personally ever bypassed the OCP on anything? I have a couple of mobo's and GPU's not mention CPU's hardmodded.
You don't get the point here, I haven't because I don't have the need to. I'm not a benchmarker. I can OC and game all the way. And no, it's not idiot proof to recap a Real Power 1250. Enhance heatsinks are a huge PITA to desolder.
#3
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
John Doe said:
You don't get the point here, I haven't because I don't have the need to. I'm not a benchmarker. I can OC and game all the way. And no, it's not idiot proof to recap a Real Power 1250. Enhance heatsinks are a huge PITA to desolder.
Not terrible if the entire unit is baked.
Posted on Reply
#4
Unregistered
cdawall said:
Not terrible if the entire unit is baked.
It had a bunch of unknown caps on the secondary, actually. That was why I went into it. A blue one that looked like Asia-X, a purple one and lol... I replaced them with Teapo's.
#5
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
John Doe said:
It had a bunch of unknown caps on the secondary, actually. That was why I went into it. A blue one that looked like Asia-X, a purple one and lol... I replaced them with Teapo's.
I don't blame you odd that Enhance would cheap out like that IMO. Normally they are pretty good about using good brand caps. Oh well guess the industry has its woes thanks to the economy.
Posted on Reply
#6
Unregistered
cdawall said:
I don't blame you odd that Enhance would cheap out like that IMO. Normally they are pretty good about using good brand caps. Oh well guess the industry has its woes thanks to the economy.
Yeah, $1-5 per unit costs much more on a larger scale. At times, some other quality OEM's do this as well.
#7
(FIH) The Don
shut up bitches, its a gpu thread, not the i have the biggest soldering iron thread.

:p

oh yeah and whoever mentions ATI all the time, it DOES NOT EXIST!!! its AMD now and has been for a veeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy loooooooooooooong time.
Posted on Reply
#8
swirl09
Not sure where this thread is currently going ^^

Back on topic, without any bizarre maths or trying to take a swipe at what is obviously PR (Hi, this happens.... k?)

Going back 6+ months the estimates were that the shrink would produce in the region of a 40% performance bump. Even if AMD cherry picked these results (lol "if", of course they did, so what?), its still showing an increase of a little shy of 1 and a half times that of the respectable GTX580.

As for whoever commented they "cheated" using higher res's than 1080p for their tests... UH HUH?! Why are you spending serious money on a GPU if your only running 1080p? These are top tier cards meant for top tier res's. On that note, I find it hilarious that some sites still test using rigs with GPU solutions alone costing well above a grand and yet dont go higher than 1900x1200 in their testing suite? THAT makes *no* sense.

My only concern now is how long will it take for nV to get their answer out. Last time I checked they mentioned well into Q1 2012, they're unlikely to be early and given there has been a recent wave of new beefed up 580's coming out I think thats a good indication we're awhile off seeing it :/ Well, when it does arrive Ill be happy - pick the better card and couple it with an IB and /happynewrigtime
Posted on Reply
#9
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
(FIH) The Don said:
shut up bitches, its a gpu thread, not the i have the biggest soldering iron thread.

:p

oh yeah and whoever mentions ATI all the time, it DOES NOT EXIST!!! its AMD now and has been for a veeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy loooooooooooooong time.
My VGA card still says ATi on it.



So bugger off :cool:
Posted on Reply
#10
phanbuey
swirl09 said:
Not sure where this thread is currently going ^^

Back on topic, without any bizarre maths or trying to take a swipe at what is obviously PR (Hi, this happens.... k?)

Going back 6+ months the estimates were that the shrink would produce in the region of a 40% performance bump. Even if AMD cherry picked these results (lol "if", of course they did, so what?), its still showing an increase of a little shy of 1 and a half times that of the respectable GTX580.

As for whoever commented they "cheated" using higher res's than 1080p for their tests... UH HUH?! Why are you spending serious money on a GPU if your only running 1080p? These are top tier cards meant for top tier res's. On that note, I find it hilarious that some sites still test using rigs with GPU solutions alone costing well above a grand and yet dont go higher than 1900x1200 in their testing suite? THAT makes *no* sense.

My only concern now is how long will it take for nV to get their answer out. Last time I checked they mentioned well into Q1 2012, they're unlikely to be early and given there has been a recent wave of new beefed up 580's coming out I think thats a good indication we're awhile off seeing it :/ Well, when it does arrive Ill be happy - pick the better card and couple it with an IB and /happynewrigtime
I think using lower resolutions in reviews makes sense, which is why they do it. These are not "top tier cards meant for top tier res's" since no single GPU card can max most the new games at acceptable FPS. 1900x1200 allows you to use max settings and get a fluid experience.

Either way, I have seen these graphs from AMD so many times that I know enough not to even waste my time to look at them. They are always way off. There is not one graph that they have released like that which is actually true. Just because it is "PR" also doesnt make it right - I hope both companies get flamed for releasing crap like this.
Posted on Reply
#12
phanbuey
Its the same graph lol... and what the hell is 1x MSAA - ah googled... it exists... some random performance settings on that chart.
Posted on Reply
#13
Nesters
These graphs... Every time I see a bar twice as long as comparison and something like "up to 50%" I know it's AMD. :D
Posted on Reply
#14
Velvet Wafer
ah, this incredibly misleading graphs again, from which you cant even derive actual performance, as they most times are just heavily biased:laugh:
Posted on Reply
#15
trickson
OH, I have such a headache
(FIH) The Don said:
shut up bitches, its a gpu thread, not the i have the biggest soldering iron thread.

:p

oh yeah and whoever mentions ATI all the time, it DOES NOT EXIST!!! its AMD now and has been for a veeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy loooooooooooooong time.
Bull shit ! If ATI did not exist then why the hell is it on the fucking box ? When I go to the store I see ATI NOT AMD?ATI on the box ! So shut up bitch :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#16
BarbaricSoul
I can wait two more days for Wizz's review to tell us the actual difference between the current top tier cards and the 7970. Personally I hoping the 7970 will be the motivation I need to replace my 5870 crossfireX set-up.
Posted on Reply
#17
phanbuey
BarbaricSoul said:
I can wait two more days for Wizz's review to tell us the actual difference between the current top tier cards and the 7970. Personally I hoping the 7970 will be the motivation I need to replace my 5870 crossfireX set-up.
Seriously... i cant either - I think that is why this fake graph pisses me off so much... usually we have some leaked 3rd party benches from China or something... not some crap graph from AMD that doesnt even list FPS. :/

Come on people... NDA's are meant to be disregarded
Posted on Reply
#18
Benetanegia
phanbuey said:
Seriously... i cant either - I think that is why this fake graph pisses me off so much... usually we have some leaked 3rd party benches from China or something... not some crap graph from AMD that doesnt even list FPS. :/

Come on people... NDA's are meant to be disregarded
Yes but don't reviewers usually get cards 3-4 weeks before launch so as to have time to review properly and fix any problems that could arise? I'm sure that with the sudden release day change reviewers only got cards 1 or 2 weeks ago. So not too much time for proper testing. But that's something only W1zz could tell us.
Posted on Reply
#19
cadaveca
My name is Dave
From my own sample "procurment", you might have several weeks..you might only have 3 days, or even less. That's going to change with every product, no matter who makes it.

Ideally, yes, reviewers would get a few weeks, but that's not always possible.

All i know is, no 7970XTX cards at my house, yet. :p
Posted on Reply
#20
bear jesus
cadaveca said:
From my own sample "procurment", you might have several weeks..you might only have 3 days, or even less. That's going to change with every product, no matter who makes it.

Ideally, yes, reviewers would get a few weeks, but that's not always possible.

All i know is, no 7970XTX cards at my house, yet. :p
That's because i stole your mail :p
Posted on Reply
#21
(FIH) The Don
trickson said:
Bull shit ! If ATI did not exist then why the hell is it on the fucking box ? When I go to the store I see ATI NOT AMD?ATI on the box ! So shut up bitch :laugh:
ATI does NOT exist ANYMORE, do you understand??????

its A-M-D now, get it? :shadedshu
Posted on Reply
#22
Benetanegia
cadaveca said:
From my own sample "procurment", you might have several weeks..you might only have 3 days, or even less. That's going to change with every product, no matter who makes it.

Ideally, yes, reviewers would get a few weeks, but that's not always possible.

All i know is, no 7970XTX cards at my house, yet. :p
Oh yeah, I forgot to post what I was actually trying to point out: the usual chinese leaks might not have happened because said chinese sources didn't get a card this time around or not yet.
Posted on Reply
#23
phanbuey
(FIH) The Don said:
ATI does NOT exist ANYMORE, do you understand??????

its A-M-D now, get it? :shadedshu
I am sure the guys at the GFX Division, refer to corporate as "Those A**hats from AMD".
Posted on Reply
#24
(FIH) The Don
phanbuey said:
I am sure the guys at the GFX Division, refer to corporate as "Those A**hats from AMD".
:laugh:

still doesnt change the fact that its AMD, ATi is dead.

gonna drop it here

and i saw what you did there lol
Posted on Reply
#25
phanbuey
I can see Ben's point - they prolly pushed the release date up last moment. I envision it like this:

AMD VP: "OH S**T! Christmas is on the 25TH!!?!?! When the hell did that happen?, Suzy - Quick get Steve on the phone- I need that damn 7970 OUT NOW!"

Suzy: "But sir, the reviewers don't even have the cards yet"

AMD VP: "DAMMIT SUZY! I don't pay you THINK! Get Bob from marketing to make one of his famous graphs, then leak it on the internet."
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