It's all speculation. IMO, Piledriver will gain due to process revision, but with that revision, AMD performed many tweaks and modifications. I mean, 10% to 15% shouldn't be that difficult to achieve with such an architecture. I'll bet most of the gain will come from miner tweaks versus just jacking up the clock rate. But Steamroller will be a completely different story, and that is where we may see AMD come back and challenge Intel on performance per watt and $.

slybundafail all over again

Yes because you have direct links to official benchmarks. Oh, can you provide us a link ;)

Well lets hope they can deliver

HumanSmokeand I'm pretty sure all new stuff they were supposed to be packing into Vishera, e.g. - the resonant clock mesh tech isn't included.

and im pretty sure the resonant clock mesh is in place as are tweeks optimisations and even some new functions that were not at all on bulldozer, Piledriver is an evolution of BD not exactly the same but done a bit neater or something, they have added a few things.

slybundafail all over again

worthless :nutkick:

the biggest thing here is AMD obviously learned their lesson... they aren't over hyping PD to be something just freakin awesome out of left field, in fact they are pretty much publicly ignoring PD and talking about SR in all their ventures because THAT is what they are proud of right now. PD is mostly likely C0 BD or something of the sort whereas SR takes what BD was in concept and makes it a reality.

i just hope SR is AM3+ because i don't want to buy a new board when this is perfectly fine.

brian111I suspect these prices will start to decline after it's been out a few weeks. I wish it were that way with Intel, but there in a position where they don't have to. Even the previous generation has only come down slightly.

heck theyve never slashed prices even when AMD had taken the lead in performance during A64 Era.

Covert_Deaththe biggest thing here is AMD obviously learned their lesson... they aren't over hyping PD to be something just freakin awesome out of left field, in fact they are pretty much publicly ignoring PD and talking about SR in all their ventures because THAT is what they are proud of right now. PD is mostly likely C0 BD or something of the sort whereas SR takes what BD was in concept and makes it a reality.

i just hope SR is AM3+ because i don't want to buy a new board when this is perfectly fine.

You will see another chipset launch for SR, 1090/1070 probably, should incorporate USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt along with PEG 3.0/3.1- considering the way they are talking about it over PD.

Wow AMD didn't learn anything did they.

symmetricalWow AMD didn't learn anything did they.

:rolleyes:

apparently you havent been reading for the last several months.

:nutkick:

btw where's your system specs at?

Covert_Deaththe biggest thing here is AMD obviously learned their lesson... they aren't over hyping PD to be something just freakin awesome out of left field, in fact they are pretty much publicly ignoring PD and talking about SR in all their ventures because THAT is what they are proud of right now.

More than likely, they're marketing team has done a poor job this time round. Unfortunately AMD's weakness is their marketing and promotion. Believe me, if the marketing budget permitted and they had a strong campaign they would be loud and proud even if it performed like a 1999 Duron.

NC37Little disappointed in the price. But I'm sure these will sell like BD did. Amazing how well that went after how heavily downed it was in reviews. Guess people only saw that FX name and went nuts.

There's a market for everything. Even VIA can make a living with their Nanos.

eidairaman1:rolleyes:

apparently you havent been reading for the last several months.

:nutkick:

btw where's your system specs at?

Oh no need for a nut kick. I meant to say they havent learn with their pricing. I used to have an fx-8120. While i liked its desktop performance it was disappointing to me for gaming as it wasnt an improvement on my old phenom ii 965be. I now have a 2600k 4.6ghz and zotac gtx 680.

I just thought AMD would have priced vishera lower to stay competitive. Then again well see how it actually performs when they release to the public.

symmetricalOh no need for a nut kick. I meant to say they havent learn with their pricing. I used to have an fx-8120. While i liked its desktop performance it was disappointing to me for gaming as it wasnt an improvement on my old phenom ii 965be. I now have a 2600k 4.6ghz and zotac gtx 680.

I just thought AMD would have priced vishera lower to stay competitive. Then again well see how it actually performs when they release to the public.

Why price something lower if it sells higher? Plenty of people are buying the "overpriced" BD chips what makes you think these will be different?

I will wait until benchmarks pop up of the real thing before I jump to conclusions. I made that mistake once already and received a steaming pile of shit.

As long as minor tweaks net 10-15% gains and they overclock well I will be getting one. If not my B97@4ghz is chugging along great.

cdawallWhy price something lower if it sells higher? Plenty of people are buying the "overpriced" BD chips what makes you think these will be different?

I will wait until benchmarks pop up of the real thing before I jump to conclusions. I made that mistake once already and received a steaming pile of shit.

As long as minor tweaks net 10-15% gains and they overclock well I will be getting one. If not my B97@4ghz is chugging along great.

I just want to see the numbers myself and a clock for clock comparison because if the PD only has a gain from increasing core clock then its just a BD thats been OCd.

eidairaman1I just want to see the numbers myself and a clock for clock comparison because if the PD only has a gain from increasing core clock then its just a BD thats been OCd.

Same here, and i also hope that is not just a OC to get the performance increase or ill be very unhappy :(

Pricing on these chips is pre-order and is NOT official AMD pricing

The pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350. It is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t. This cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago. This cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming. Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out. This is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share.
When Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after. Bye bye Intel fan boys!

btarunrAMD's upcoming second-generation FX "Vishera" multi-core CPUs are likely to appeal to a variety of budget-conscious buyers, if a price-list leaked from US retailer BLT is accurate. The list includes pricing of the first four models AMD will launch some time in October, including the flagship FX-8350. The FX-8350 leads the pack with eight cores, 4.00 GHz clock speed, and 16 MB of total cache. It is priced at US $253.06. The FX-8350 is followed by another eight-core chip, the FX-8320, clocked at 3.50 GHz, and priced at $242.05.

Trailing the two eight-core chips is the FX-6300, carrying six cores, 3.50 GHz clock speed, 14 MB total cache, and a price-tag of $175.77. The most affordable chip of the lot, the FX-4350 packs four cores, 4.00 GHz clock speed, and 8 MB of total cache (likely by halving even the L3 cache). The FX-4350 is expected to go for $131.42. In all, the new lineup draws several parallels with the first-generation FX lineup, with FX-8150, FX-8120, FX-6100, and FX-4150.

www.techpowerup.com/img/12-09-24/126a_thm.jpg

Source: HotHardware

os2wizThe pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350. It is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t. This cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago. This cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming. Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out. This is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share.
When Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after. Bye bye Intel fan boys!

welcome to TPU ,you do reallise your sounding like an Amd fanboi though dont you:p

Intel will definately loose market share in the future but not just to Amd, and i share your optimism however suggesting that because Amd said it Will be 15% faster, that it definately will be is silly, as they like intel have misslead in the past, <still awaiting reliable testing myself.

eidairaman1I just want to see the numbers myself and a clock for clock comparison because if the PD only has a gain from increasing core clock then its just a BD thats been OCd.

Here they are:

www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224-2.html

This is Trinity (Piledriver-based) versus Bulldozer with 2 modules disabled. As you can clearly see even Piledriver with no L3 cache beats Bulldozer in single- and multi-threaded tasks at same clockspeed (= better IPC).

Note that Vishera is going to feature L3 cache, missing in Trinity, hopefully improved from the somewhat botched up Bulldozer implementation, bringing performance further up. Then there's the matter of higher clocks at same TDP (more than 10% improvement over Bulldozer).

All in all Vishera is looking to be exactly what Bulldozer should have been last year - about 20-25% faster.

^^
That looks pretty good!

Didn't AMD promise something on the order of 30% better IPC? If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...

And, wasn't there a 10-core variant in the works? Where's that?

Horrux^^
That looks pretty good!

Didn't AMD promise something on the order of 30% better IPC? If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...

And, wasn't there a 10-core variant in the works? Where's that?

Not sure but i think you're confusing the A10-5X00 with it having 10 cores.

Horrux^^ C? If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...

Not for a single step - they suggested that each step (i.e. from Bulldozer to Piledriver, from Piledriver to Steamroller and from Steamroller to Excavator) would bring a 10-15% improvement. Here's the diagram that has been posted on many sites:

i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/AMD-Next-Gen-FX-Series-CPUs-to-Arrive-in-Q3-2012-3.jpg

Horrux^^
That looks pretty good!

Didn't AMD promise something on the order of 30% better IPC? If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...

And, wasn't there a 10-core variant in the works? Where's that?

Yes, you are right, Piledriver was suppose to be 10-Core. But that was with the old management and the old road maps. Now I would expect Steamroller to offer at least one 10-Core CPU along with a bunch of 8, 6 & 4 core CPU's.

eidairaman1heck theyve never slashed prices even when AMD had taken the lead in performance during A64 Era.

You will see another chipset launch for SR, 1090/1070 probably, should incorporate USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt along with PEG 3.0/3.1- considering the way they are talking about it over PD.

You mean Lightning Bolt :D
www.anandtech.com/show/5413/amds-lightning-bolt-low-cost-thunderbolt-alternative-for-usb-30dp

os2wizThe pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350. It is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t. This cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago. This cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming. Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out. This is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share.
When Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after. Bye bye Intel fan boys!

Now you deserve a :nutkick:

When Bulldozer was announced at $245 for the FX-8150, stupid retailers priced it at least $279-$299. They are going to do the same thing for Vishera. And you are stating all this mumbo jumbo on what? Speculation? Hopes? Dreams?

The same type of attitude when Bulldozer was launched.

Don't set yourself up for disappointment is all I am saying.

Wait until real performance benchmarks are out before making any type of claims.

I'll bite;

os2wizThe pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350.

People are aware how it works, but the fact is BD CPU's were marked up something like 10-20% when they first launched because they were new and exciting and if I recall the initial shipments were pretty small so retailers wanted to maximize profits. The original "AMD Price" for BD CPU's was substantially lower than most people who bought them immediately paid. Most of the super marked up BD CPU's were also on sketchy sites from like Romania, this one seems to be a bit more legitimate.

os2wizIt is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t.

The same OBR who was shamed for saying Bulldozer would perform worse than Phenom II when applications used 4 or less threads and everyone ridiculed him saying it was impossible? OBR is definitely hit or miss, but saying he is completely bullshit when he was spot on with Bulldozer is foolish. As for the site operators, I've seen plenty of instances where bta/wiz ignore stories everyone else is reporting on because they use objective reasoning rather than just posting whatever the hell they think will get hits.

os2wizThis cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago.

Well if AMD's Grade A marketting team said it, it must be so. The same people that showed the FX Series crushing Intel CPU's in gaming during countless presentations have never been wrong (hint--sarcasm).

os2wizThis cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming. Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out.

It needs to be on par with the i7-2600k when it comes to gaming, and BD already edges out the Core CPU's when the conditions are perfect (AMD approved instruction sets are usable and it uses 8 threads). The problem with BD was that it could offer comperable performance, but needed to be OCed and devoured power while running quite a bit warmer than Intel offerings at the time. I find it troubling that you see nothing wrong with the fact that AMDis happy to be almost 2 years behind Intel at all times. The i7-2600k is nearing EOL, and Intel will probably lower the prices naturally to clear out stock.

os2wizThis is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share.

I disagree. Where Intel may lose Market Share due to APU's, you're ignoring their Ace In The Hole--Mobile CPU's. Intel's Medfield, their first entry into the Cell Phone market, was substantially better than expected, and showed that x86 was just as capable as ARM. If Intel has shown anything, it's that with a process shrink and some tweaking they can give surprisingly huge improvements, and I think they are poised to make a huge impact in that market, which is much larger than the laptop market is. AMD still has no plans for manufacturing processors for mobile phones or tablets, which means they are missing out on a massively lucrative market.

os2wizWhen Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after. Bye bye Intel fan boys!

Steamroller will probably not be out until the end of 2013 or even as far as early to mid 2014. Haswell will be a huge performance gain considering it's an architecture change rather than a refinement. I imagine at least as big of an impact as Sandy Bridge had, and probably the beginning of Intel switching to adding more cores for entry level CPU's (probably offering only Quad-Cores on 1150, but 6-8 cores on the high-end platform). All of that aside, everything indicates Piledriver will be more of a refinement than an overhaul, and that Steamroller will be a much large performance gain. I think per-thread performance on high end Intel offerings will still be greater than the highest end Vishera offering, and Haswell will launch quite a bit earlier than Steamroller giving Intel the price/performance edge they have kind of slid into since Sandy Bridge.

Tired of garbage being posted by anti AMD Intel know-nothings.

symmetricalNow you deserve a :nutkick:

When Bulldozer was announced at $245 for the FX-8150, stupid retailers priced it at least $279-$299. They are going to do the same thing for Vishera. And you are stating all this mumbo jumbo on what? Speculation? Hopes? Dreams?

The same type of attitude when Bulldozer was launched.

Don't set yourself up for disappointment is all I am saying.

Wait until real performance benchmarks are out before making any type of claims.

I can live with that but then the Intel crowd should be muzzled they are extremely obnoxious in my opinion. Tom's Hardware analysis of trinity lays credence to the fact that Vishera CPU's should also have a 15% increase in IPC as AMD has claimed.

os2wizI can live with that but then the Intel crowd should be muzzled they are extremely obnoxious in my opinion. Tom's Hardware analysis of trinity lays credence to the fact that Vishera CPU's should also have a 15% increase in IPC as AMD has claimed.

But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings. In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz). I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24. That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's. So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.

Sources:
Piledriver IPC
Comparison Benchmark