Sunday, June 16th 2013

Microsoft Pulls a Fast One with E3 Xbox One Demos

With its focus on on-demand entertainment at the expense of gaming prowess, Xbox One didn't impress gamers at E3, who instead flocked to Amazon to pre-order their PlayStation 4, which not only features faster hardware, that could translate to better visuals in gaming, but is also a whole 20 percent cheaper ($499 vs. $399). At E3, Microsoft tried to pull a fast one. It set up several gaming stations allegedly powered by Xbox One, where gamers could play unreleased Xbox One games using the new Xbox One controller, just to get a feel of how rich and smooth the graphics really are. Some of them fell for it, others didn't. When these peeping toms didn't find the screens wired to an Xbox One main unit, they yanked open the cupboards below, only to find a full-fledged Windows 7 gaming PC.

How full-fledged you ask? Keen observers across the forumscape made out a rig powered by an Intel LGA2011 processor, which could at least be a Core i7-3820, and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 700 series reference design graphics card, which could at least be a GeForce GTX 770. Such a system would obviously give you a rich and smooth gaming experience.
Microsoft Xbox One features a custom-designed application processor by AMD, which combines eight 64-bit x86 cores based on the "Jaguar" micro-architecture, with a GPU that packs 768 Graphics CoreNext stream processors, and a unified quad-channel DDR3-2133 memory interface, holding 8 GB of memory. This memory is cushioned by a large 32 MB SRAM cache on-die. In comparison, Sony's PlayStation 4 features a custom-designed application processor, too, which features the same CPU portion, but a bigger graphics core with 1,152 stream processors, and a 256-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface, holding 8 GB of RAM, which can be used as both main and graphics memory. On top of all that, the PlayStation 4 is $100 cheaper, at $399.Source: Gaming Blend. Many Thanks to Fluffmeister for the tip.
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161 Comments on Microsoft Pulls a Fast One with E3 Xbox One Demos

#1
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
YogurtMaster said:
The Alpha dev kits were using similar components. The game will look the same. It's a common practice in the INDUSTRY!
I don't see how you are getting that these are Alpha dev kits with similar component so the final console. These aren't alpha kits, and the hardware is no where near similar components. A GTX780 isn't similar to a HD7850, and an i7-3930 isn't similar to a 8-Core Piledriver Piledriver. I've owned dev kits, even alpha dev kits, from previous generation systems. I have never seen a dev kit that use parts so drastically different from the actual console's. There is no way these were dev kits.

YogurtMaster said:
You guys are killing me with your ignorance. This happens at EVERY LAUNCH E3, it is standard stuff.
It is standard practice to use dev kits to demo games, Sony did it, these are not dev kits. Your ignorance is killing me. I can't believe someone would look at the systems used at E3 and claim they are dev kits that are similar to the final console, and then have the arrogance to say others are ignorant.

YogurtMaster said:
They are not trying to trick anyone. E3 is at a weird time of the year when the code is not finished or even near finished. All the developers are still working on the game while E3 is going on, they just needed to provide a stable branch of code and probably used a development kit or a pseudo development kit to run the code.
If they weren't trying to trick anyone they would have actually used similar hardware to the final console and not the top of the line GPU on the market. They could have very easily gone with systems that were at least partially similar to the final specs. They could have use an 8-Core AMD processor, and an AMD GPU with similar(but slightly better even) specs. But they didn't, they went with PCs that were totally balls out top of the line and nothing even close to what the final console will be. That is deceptive, and I have a hard time believing that the games will look as good, or run as smoothly, on the final hardware which will be radically different from and about half as powerful as the systems used to demo games at E3, I just don't see that happening.
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#2
PersonWithTech
Why would they do that???? :O . They've used a nvidia card and intel cpu, when the Xbox uses all AMD parts.Would AMD feel betrayed, or does microsoft just see those parts as superior to AMD. I also question why they would use a fancy case if it is supposed to be hidden, with a liquid cooler which isn't even ENTIRELY necessary.
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#3
Ikaruga
YogurtMaster said:
You all all newbies......I love how everyone is trying to turn this into bad news. The amount of ignorance is staggering. There is more ignorance and scare tactics than actual facts.
Please forgive us, it's just mass overconfidence, nothing more really. Since we have you among us, we just stopped thinking altogether, it would be useless since you know everything anyway, so we just listen and learn.

YogurtMaster said:
Try to do some research first before putting out some article that is meant as a scare tactic instead of understanding that this is how alpha development kits can be used.
PS4 games were running on actual devkits.
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#4
NC37
It isn't the first or the last time better hardware has been used to demo something. But the fact that M$ did not use actual dev kits makes me think the games just were not all the way there yet. I'd guess not totally optimized and it would be an embarrassment for M$ to have previewed them under that. So they instead toss in a gaming PC and just let the raw performance carry it.

You got both makers literally turning the industry on it's head and forcing it to adapt to multithreading beyond 3-4 cores which did not carry over into PC gaming very well aside from a few titles. That is something that won't happen as easily. Specially with M$ gimping their hardware so much compared to PS4. Optimization is going to have to be key to run on those weaker CPUs and also handle all the excess background tasks. They aren't server based CPUs, they are stuff made to combat netbook CPUs. Which is what concerns me about the PS4's social media features. It is useless frills. I'd rather all computing tasks being directed to games, not keeping tabs on Facebook/etc.
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#5
theo2021
linux gaming

I believe that we gamers should support more linux gaming. Microsoft is getting worse over the years in the gaming environment for windows although they made it better for the some consumers and we have to pay for the software.If games would run smoother in linux we would see many many consoles using linux since it is opensource and many companies would make their own consoles customizing the linux software as they want to and the prices would go down.But the best thing is that the game developers would make only one version of the game since pc and consoles will have identical environments so they would sell games cheaper too. So we will have cheaper and more consoles free pc software and cheaper games.
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#6
YogurtMaster
newtekie1 said:
I don't see how you are getting that these are Alpha dev kits with similar component so the final console. These aren't alpha kits, and the hardware is no where near similar components. A GTX780 isn't similar to a HD7850, and an i7-3930 isn't similar to a 8-Core Piledriver Piledriver. I've owned dev kits, even alpha dev kits, from previous generation systems. I have never seen a dev kit that use parts so drastically different from the actual console's. There is no way these were dev kits.



It is standard practice to use dev kits to demo games, Sony did it, these are not dev kits. Your ignorance is killing me. I can't believe someone would look at the systems used at E3 and claim they are dev kits that are similar to the final console, and then have the arrogance to say others are ignorant.



If they weren't trying to trick anyone they would have actually used similar hardware to the final console and not the top of the line GPU on the market. They could have very easily gone with systems that were at least partially similar to the final specs. They could have use an 8-Core AMD processor, and an AMD GPU with similar(but slightly better even) specs. But they didn't, they went with PCs that were totally balls out top of the line and nothing even close to what the final console will be. That is deceptive, and I have a hard time believing that the games will look as good, or run as smoothly, on the final hardware which will be radically different from and about half as powerful as the systems used to demo games at E3, I just don't see that happening.
They probably didn't have time and so they had to use what they have. A lot of things are like this at E3. I don't see your point. You think that it's not going to be like that with the XB1. When you use the XB1 you can use the cloud as well (or limit the FPS to a frame rate), so it's not such a one to one answer.

This happens at E3 often, it's not like its something new.
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#7
Naito
Did it occur to anyone that the Xbox OS actually runs inside a VM? And the games are most likely hard-coded to the specifications the Xbox OS environment provides? It is probably likely that there wasn't enough late prototype or early production models of Xbox One available for E3, or that the code for the Xbox One hasn't been completed to a acceptable level for demonstration ,(or a bit of both), thus MS sort to use these PCs for the demo. Whilst I think it may be possibly for these machines to run the VM faster, until production code is complete, I don't think they'll run games with misleading visuals.
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#8
Mckertis
Unfortunately, as long as some exclusives are released for consoles only, there's no other way you can enjoy great games like Forza, Uncharted, The Last of Us
Hey, if those games were any good - they'd port it on PC. Never played Uncharted, and really not suffering from it, i already have a 20+ title backlog of great games on PC.
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#9
nisen
YogurtMaster said:
You all all newbies. This is what happens at E3 at every launch. Xbox 360 was launched at E3 running on Power PC Macintosh computers.

I love how everyone is trying to turn this into bad news. The amount of ignorance is staggering. There is more ignorance and scare tactics than actual facts.
still seems beyond reasonable advertising deception showing fake gameplay when one of the main purposes is showing how well the hardware itself does.

coincidentally came across a vid yesterday comparing PS3 trailers at E3 to how they turned out irl

PlayStation® 3 'E3 '05 vs NOW'
Posted on Reply
#10
SIGSEGV
Mckertis said:
Hey, if those games were any good - they'd port it on PC. Never played Uncharted, and really not suffering from it, i already have a 20+ title backlog of great games on PC.
i hope someday you'd port the god of war III on PC ;)
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#11
MyTechAddiction
Look They even used a system with Windows 7 .
Oh the fail level is at 10000 :roll:
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#12
SmG
So even microsoft uses windows 7 instead of windows 8 for their desktops. :laugh:
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#13
phanbuey
I've never been to E3... and maybe its just a code showoff... but they are using hardware that is 3x the power of what this software will actually run on.

And lets face it, MS is on a roll. Lately they make shit OSes and they make shitty phones and tablets... is it really that much of a stretch to imagine that they will make a shitty console? Will we all be surprised when the XB1 is just absolutely terrible?

I almost feel bad for the marketing guys:

"HERE MAKE PEOPLE WANT THIS!"

"But, sir, these are dog feces"

"TELL THEM THAT THEY WANT IT AND THAT THEY PREFER IT OVER GOOGLE"

"But, sir, no one wants this, especially over Google!!!"

"DO IT, AND THEN TELL THEM THAT THEY CAN STILL DO THE THINGS THEY DID WITH THE START MENU WITH ONLY 13 MORE CLICKS AND SOME TYPING!!!"

"Sir, please, have a snickers!!!"

"PUT METRO AND BING ON EVERYTHING! LET ALL THE ELECTRONICS FEEL THE WRATH OF METRO!!! AND BING! AND CUT THE POWER OF THE CONSOLES BY 1/3, AND DON'T LET THEM PLAY GAMES UNLESS WE ALLOW IT! DO THIS --- AND MAKE THEM BUY IT!!!"
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#14
brutlern
I am just plain shocked, I mean I have seen this kind of thing before, example, at the PS4 reveal (not at this E3m the one that was a couple of moths ago) where they showed a new Watch Dogs trailer, Ubi admitted that the demo was actually running on a PC, and not on the PS4, but at least in that case they didn't try to fool anyone, they came out and said it straight up that it was a PC build (basically Ubi juts hijacked the PS4 conference to market Watch Dogs a bit more :P), but what Microsud is doing is borderline fraud.
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#15
silkstone
YogurtMaster said:
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. The Alpha dev kits were using similar components. The game will look the same. It's a common practice in the INDUSTRY!
Alpha Dev kits are completely different from finished product then? they don't even use the same manufacturer. I don't see how intel + Nvidia could be an alpha dev kit when Xone is using AMD.

Edit - It seems the Dev kits are NVidia hardware. Strange.

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Dango-Durango-Next-Gen-Xbox-developer-kit-wild
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#16
progste
lol the fact that bugs me is that they didn't even bother to lock the box or at least keep someone guarding it :laugh:
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#17
progste
de.das.dude said:
there are not ethics profession anymore.
and yeah the PS is going to be the one for a lot of people XD specially after this.

just the fact that sony is using GDDR5 over the crappy DDR3 is reason enough to believe that sony is going to be atleast 20-30% better performing.
the ps4 is going to be more powerful, but i wouldn't really address that to the Ram but more to the GPU since it should be quite more powerful on the ps4
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#18
jihadjoe
I learn 2 things from this:

1) Even AMD partners don't use AMD!
2) Even Microsoft doesn't use Windows 8!
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#19
acerace
de.das.dude said:
that doesnt make it fair. stop your arrogance please. before someone reports you.
Why? Because he made a sensible arguments? That's why you labeling him like that? :laugh:

Linus also talked about this issue in his June 14th live stream. http://youtu.be/0GwurgaAIQg?t=24m7s Fast-forwarded to the issue.
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#20
Kaynar
jihadjoe said:
I learn 2 things from this:

1) Even AMD partners don't use AMD!
2) Even Microsoft doesn't use Windows 8!
I learned exactly the same thing from this.
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#21
de.das.dude
Pro Indian Modder
acerace said:
Why? Because he made a sensible arguments? That's why you labeling him like that? :laugh:

Linus also talked about this issue in his June 14th live stream. http://youtu.be/0GwurgaAIQg?t=24m7s Fast-forwarded to the issue.
lol, linus? HAHAHA i guess i have nothing more to say.
Posted on Reply
#22
de.das.dude
Pro Indian Modder
progste said:
the ps4 is going to be more powerful, but i wouldn't really address that to the Ram but more to the GPU since it should be quite more powerful on the ps4
RAM is also as important as the cores.. just go and buy the same GPU, but different versions of RAM, DDR3 and DDR5, you will feel the difference.
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#23
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Ha! Who thought of that brilliant idea?!
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#24
acerace
de.das.dude said:
lol, linus? HAHAHA i guess i have nothing more to say.
If you watch the video long enough, you will understand why Microsoft use LGA2011 platforms.
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#25
Am*
Great news for us PC gamers -- it will make porting these games to the PC THAT much easier. We may not ever even need to emulate the consoles.

As far as this console goes, the harder the Xbone fails, the better. I want all future Xbox exclusives ported on my PC in one form or another, so I do not EVER have to have this spying piece of shit in my house. Microsoft can either wise up and release a Kinect-less/offline and secondhand-game enabled Xbox One, or they can fuck up their second biggest moneymaker right behind Windows. And after the collossal fuck up that was/is Windows 8, I strongly suggest for them to wise up and listen to the critics/fans before it is too late, because there is only so much money that a multi-billion dollar corporation like M$ can bleed before it has to close its doors and/or go bankrupt.
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