Tuesday, May 13th 2014

$2,999 Price of GeForce GTX TITAN-Z Not Justifiable: Review

Here's why NVIDIA still hasn't launched the GeForce GTX TITAN-Z at the $2,999 price-point it so boldly announced at GTC 2014 - it's not worth its price by a long shot, at least not when stacked up against the Radeon R9 295X2, according to a review published by Hong Kong based print magazine E-Zone. In most tests, the two are evenly matched, with the R9 295X2 even outperforming it by a significant margin in some. In tests where the GTX TITAN-Z leads the R9 295X2, the lead isn't significant, at least nowhere close to justifying its price. The only way NVIDIA can sell the GTX TITAN-Z, if these numbers hold true, is by delivering on its 375W TDP figure.

The review finds that a system running a single GTX TITAN-Z draws 33W less power than the same system running two GTX 780 Ti cards in SLI, and 60W less power than the same system running a single R9 295X2 (tested at FireStrike Extreme load). Unless you plan on future-proofing yourself for the next decade, the lower power draw doesn't justify the $1,500 higher price. So what explains the delay in launching the GTX TITAN-Z? Either a redesign with higher clocks (and proportionately higher power draw), or development of faster drivers.

Source: LinusTechTips Community
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82 Comments on $2,999 Price of GeForce GTX TITAN-Z Not Justifiable: Review

#1
Sony Xperia S
We can thank AMD for ruining nvidia's intentions. Now that is delayed indefinitely.

THANKS GOD!

JHH is thinking now how to sell this crap at those price points when the competition offers similar for 50% price discount. :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#2
GreiverBlade
PhantomTaco said:
Still waiting to see the final version. Theoretically 2 full GK110 cores (with adequate power and cooling) would outperform a 295x2.
well a fully fledged Titan Black is not far above a 290X if we except Batman .... and the 295X2 has a slight OC on the Hawaii chips... so yes it would outperform it ... by a small margin as the Titan Black outperform the 290X

i might read wrong but for me on those tests the Titan black is all but crushing the 290X


i am wondering what will be the "gpu to take on GTX780Ti/Titan Black" since the 290X already can take them head on. (not reference tho :roll:)
Posted on Reply
#3
buggalugs
PhantomTaco said:
A couple months later? Pray tell me what card came out a few months after February of 2013? Nothing. The 780 came out in May and didn't outperform the Titan, and the 290/290x didn't come until October (8 months later). It was basically king of the hill for 8 months before anything challenged it.
The point is, the Titan was $1,000, the 780 was hundreds less and came out 3 months later with similar gaming performance. And most people who bought titan didn't buy it on day 1. They most likely bought it march or April only to find their $1,000 investment lost hundreds in value in a very short time.

While Nvidia released the titan, they were already boxing up GTX 780's. That shows a lack of respect for consumers and is just a bit dodgy.

Theres a lot of enthusiasts like me who upgrade almost every new platform/CPU/Graphics cards and the only way to afford (or justify) that is getting a good price on the second hand market.

Nvidia shows a shocking disregard for consumers imo if it wasn't for AMD we would be screwed. How they even conceived charging $2,999 for this is unbelievable.
Posted on Reply
#4
Relayer
I know someone who bought 2xTitans when first released. When the 780 came out he sold the Titans for ~$800-$850 each (don't remember exactly) and bought a pair of 780's for $1400. When the 780 ti came out he sold his 2 780's for less than $500 each and bought 2x 780 ti's. He's fine with that. He fully realizes he got played, but doesn't care. He is a prime example of the Apple mentality among nVidia's customers. So he spent almost $5K on nVidia cards in less than a year. He got ~ 1/2 of that back selling the old cards, but nVidia still got $5K from him alone.
Posted on Reply
#5
Sony Xperia S
Relayer said:
I know someone who bought 2xTitans when first released. When the 780 came out he sold the Titans for ~$800-$850 each (don't remember exactly) and bought a pair of 780's for $1400. When the 780 ti came out he sold his 2 780's for less than $500 each and bought 2x 780 ti's. He's fine with that. He fully realizes he got played, but doesn't care. He is a prime example of the Apple mentality among nVidia's customers. So he spent almost $5K on nVidia cards in less than a year. He got ~ 1/2 of that back selling the old cards, but nVidia still got $5K from him alone.
One day when that guy loses his money, he will regret for how stupid he had been. Instead of investing in his favourite company as a hardcore fanboy, he could give this money for something much more valuable, there are so many people in need who would thank him for life if he helps them...

Not to mention that with this amount of money he can also do many other things for himself.

GOD is watching and will judge him later. ;)
Posted on Reply
#6
Recus
Sony Xperia S said:
One day when that guy loses his money, he will regret for how stupid he had been. Instead of investing in his favourite company as a hardcore fanboy, he could give this money for something much more valuable, there are so many people in need who would thank him for life if he helps them...

Not to mention that with this amount of money he can also do many other things for himself.

GOD is watching and will judge him later. ;)
You could say buy AMD instead but now this is just fail. When you raid gas station for all lost money will you let me join?
Posted on Reply
#7
the54thvoid
Sony Xperia S said:
GOD is watching and will judge him later. ;)
Would you please be so kind as to leave religion and faith out of this please? Is this the same God whose doctrine is used by believers across the globe to kill one another for spurious reasons? If God is watching the guy buying 5k of gfx cards, then that shows why the world is a really a shitty place. God needs to be rounding up all the murderous zealots, not watching people buying gfx cards.

Anyhow, back on topic - I think we're all agreed AMD shafted Nvidia on this one. :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#8
GreiverBlade
Sony Xperia S said:
GOD is watching and will judge him later. ;)
at last i had a good laugh today ... lucky you added a ;)

Recus said:
You could say buy AMD instead but now this is just fail. When you raid gas station for all lost money will you let me join?
in the end even if my weather is cloudy ... it brighten my day

oh well so then : the Titan-Z is a failure the price point doesn't make it worth it, well that was expected from the beginning (the 2nd statement)
double precision make it worth something but again the price ruins all (oh well still cheaper than a Quadro or a Tesla)

in the end gamer : 295X2
budget bound that has 1500-2000$ max : 295x2
needing double P : Titan Z (since 2 295X2 make only around 2800dp g'flop and would eat more watt )
gamer with 3000$: "do what you want..." (still 2x295X2 would be quite good ... and not only in a QCFX... maybe you have 2 rigs and instead of upgrading one with a Titan Z you can upgrade both for the same price with 2 295X2)
Posted on Reply
#9
PhantomTaco
buggalugs said:
The point is, the Titan was $1,000, the 780 was hundreds less and came out 3 months later with similar gaming performance. And most people who bought titan didn't buy it on day 1. They most likely bought it march or April only to find their $1,000 investment lost hundreds in value in a very short time.

While Nvidia released the titan, they were already boxing up GTX 780's. That shows a lack of respect for consumers and is just a bit dodgy.

Theres a lot of enthusiasts like me who upgrade almost every new platform/CPU/Graphics cards and the only way to afford (or justify) that is getting a good price on the second hand market.

Nvidia shows a shocking disregard for consumers imo if it wasn't for AMD we would be screwed. How they even conceived charging $2,999 for this is unbelievable.
Lack of respect for the consumers? It's called early adopters, there's an implied meaning with it. People that went in buying them knew full well (and if they didn't they were idiots). Nvidia even said it was a halo product, implying a new flagship was on the way. What's more, we had rumors on the launch of the 700 series even before the titan came out, and we knew the times didn't match up.

I bought two Titans the very day they were announced, and I still don't regret it. What's more the idea that people waited several months to get it is kinda of silly, within a month or so there was already rumors floating around about the 780. For several months nothing came close to the performance I was getting, several months where others were using 7970s and 680s. It was several months were I was able to comfortably game at a minimum average of 90 fps on 1440p @ 120hz and I loved it. And even when the 780 did come out it was still around 10-15% slower. I never had to care about VRAM usage at any point, even the idea of triple screen wasn't a problem on that front. And I was able to trade my Titans in and get 780 TI classified's without spending a dime out of my pocket for it.

The 290x has been out for how long now? And now there's a rumor that a 295x is incoming that will outperform it. Where's the anger for that? The 290x came out end of october, yet basically no one could buy it for anywhere near msrp until a few months ago in north america because of miners and shortages. Now people can finally get it and there's an update in the works.

Moral of the story? Get used to whatever you buy being obsolete soon. We all expect technology to progress rapidly, getting pissed because it meets our expectations makes us look like hyppocrites. Was it underhanded? I don't think so, they released a halo product and said it was. Hell, even their press release said:

"and designed to unleash the world's fastest gaming PCs including personal gaming supercomputers"

One of their biggest marketing points was that they were being used to power one of the strongest supercomputers in the world. Who in their right mind would use a pure gaming gpu for a supercomputer? That was a tipoff then.
Posted on Reply
#10
ensabrenoir
The only good thing about this is what ever nvidia releases....hopefully a maxwell-lized Titian will be beastly. Although Amd's card is in my opinion ugly....excellent job!!! Now do the same in the cpu market. OFF TOPIC: And to correct some misconceptions out there: God gave man free will (which we will give an account for We're his children. If God controlled our every aspect and thoughts we'd be zombie slaves) hence we can do and believe what we choose. Lets not blame man's ignorance on God.
Posted on Reply
#11
HumanSmoke
Relayer said:
I know someone who bought 2xTitans when first released. When the 780 came out he sold the Titans for ~$800-$850 each (don't remember exactly) and bought a pair of 780's for $1400. When the 780 ti came out he sold his 2 780's for less than $500 each and bought 2x 780 ti's. He's fine with that. He fully realizes he got played, but doesn't care. He is a prime example of the Apple mentality among nVidia's customers. So he spent almost $5K on nVidia cards in less than a year. He got ~ 1/2 of that back selling the old cards, but nVidia still got $5K from him alone.
You could have shortened that to: "I hang out with retards". Forget the preamble.
Why would anyone sell two Titans for $1600 to buy two more crippled cards with less OC potential for $200 less? Hopefully he spread the love around and paid out $900 for a FX 9590, watched the price go into freefall, then bought an APU.
GreiverBlade said:

in the end gamer : 295X2
budget bound that has 1500-2000$ max : 295x2
Really? Sounds like you've been brainwashed. On what reasonable metric does a $1500 295X2 make more sense than two solid 290X's for $200-400 less?
buggalugs said:
Theres a lot of enthusiasts like me who upgrade almost every new platform/CPU/Graphics cards and the only way to afford (or justify) that is getting a good price on the second hand market.
Good luck with that. Last time I looked the bottom fell out of the 290/290X market. Locally, they are going for the same price as a new GTX770 (290), or reference design/clock 780 (290X) if you're lucky....maybe where you are is a different paradigm, but eBay and other online trade/auction sites seem swamped with ex-mining cards.
Posted on Reply
#12
20mmrain
Serves Nvidia right for gouging prices. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes.... but I doubt it!
Posted on Reply
#13
64K
The price never made sense to me and the argument that it made sense for people wanting the card for professional work and gaming didn't make sense compared to a pair of Titan Blacks for less money and better performance. If Nvidia still does release the Titan Z at $3,000 it will be embarrassing for Nvidia imo.
Posted on Reply
#14
GreiverBlade
HumanSmoke said:
Really? Sounds like you've been brainwashed. On what reasonable metric does a $1500 295X2 make more sense than two solid 290X's for $200-400 less?
oh please ...

ok let me rephrase : gamer with a mITX/uATX mobo and a case that can fit it or any one with a mobo that doesn't handle CFX ... well the cooling of the 295X2 is nice tho .... and even if my FM2A88M Ex4+ can CFX i wouldn't put 2 290X in my Sugo SG09B
brainwashed ... pfah what a joke. (btw i was talking about dual gpu single board ... ok ... let say a 7990 or a 690 would be better price wise.


better?
Posted on Reply
#15
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Bad premise. People with small reproductive organs will always find paying more for something justifyable regardless of its actual value.
Posted on Reply
#16
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Two 670's hang with a single Titan for less money.....they play all games maxed on the most common resolution (1080P). Not seeing a point to ANY of these cards lately. I'm pretty sure its safe to say gaming as a whole is dead.

Thank you extended lifespan of consoles. You have successfully did what ET couldn't do.
Posted on Reply
#17
radrok
TheMailMan78 said:
Two 670's hang with a single Titan for less money.....they play all games maxed on the most common resolution (1080P). Not seeing a point to ANY of these cards lately. I'm pretty sure its safe to say gaming as a whole is dead.

Thank you extended lifespan of consoles. You have successfully did what ET couldn't do.
And a single 780 Ti does better than both 670s and Titan. Overclock the 780 Ti to roughly 1250 Mhz (almost all 780Ti do that on stock voltage) and you have something that smokes everything.

Titan is obsolete, get over it guys. No point in forcing it in any discussion at all when there's a cheaper version that does the same of just about everything.
Posted on Reply
#18
64K
TheMailMan78 said:
Two 670's hang with a single Titan for less money.....they play all games maxed on the most common resolution (1080P). Not seeing a point to ANY of these cards lately. I'm pretty sure its safe to say gaming as a whole is dead.

Thank you extended lifespan of consoles. You have successfully did what ET couldn't do.
I saw an article on Ars Technica last month that said that PC game sales alone was ~26 billion dollars last year. Far from dead.
Posted on Reply
#19
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
TheMailMan78 said:
Two 670's hang with a single Titan for less money.....they play all games maxed on the most common resolution (1080P). Not seeing a point to ANY of these cards lately. I'm pretty sure its safe to say gaming as a whole is dead.

Thank you extended lifespan of consoles. You have successfully did what ET couldn't do.
Troll much? PC gaming is doing pretty well if you consider the scope of games these days. Developers are simply not doing enough to push the new hardware which is far outpacing software developement. Thankfully there is a lot more to a good game then just intense L33t Epik W!nz! OMG Grafx.
Posted on Reply
#20
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Not trolling at all. There is hardly a damn thing out worth buying now that isn't a rehash of older crap. Best thing coming out IF it lives up to the hype is Star Citizen. Everything is has been junk for a while now.

radrok said:
And a single 780 Ti does better than both 670s and Titan. Overclock the 780 Ti to roughly 1250 Mhz (almost all 780Ti do that on stock voltage) and you have something that smokes everything.
Titan is obsolete, get over it guys. No point in forcing it in any discussion at all when there's a cheaper version that does the same of just about everything.
Hardly and two 670's are still cheaper.
Posted on Reply
#21
Jorge
Few people are dumb enough to pay $3K for a GPU card, even those with money to burn.
Posted on Reply
#22
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
TheMailMan78 said:
Not trolling at all. There is hardly a damn thing out worth buying now that isn't a rehash of older crap. Best thing coming out IF it lives up to the hype is Star Citizen. Everything is has been junk for a while now.
Well that is just your opinion. That doesn't mean PC gaming is dead.
Posted on Reply
#23
15th Warlock
I bought Titan on day one (two them actually) and continue to thoroughly enjoy them to this day, in fact the drive my triple monitor setup flawlessly, absolutely no regrets here :).

As for this debate, the truth is dual GPU cards are some of the worst products people can buy, be it AMD or Nvidia, they charge a 40-50% premium over the price of going for two separate cards despite such solutions being slower and bulkier.

Yes, AMD engineered the better dual GPU card, and priced it better, but you would be better off getting two 290Xs with aftermarket coolers and even save some money in the process.

Only 0.001% of all costumers really "need" these cards, people with small ITX rigs, or with huge rendering or mining farms, other than that pretty much every enthusiast out there should just need to see these cards as the freak ultra expensive Rolls Royce or Bentley of the PC world that they really are and settle for a couple of nice GT-Rs or 911s ;)

In other words, this debate can go on forever, but is it really gonna benefit any of us real PC enthusiast in the end? I highly doubt it. Will one team finally see the light and realize the other team has the better product? Impossible, not when people defend a brand name with religious zeal.

Open your eyes, both companies have a board of directors and trade to the public, as such they care only about profit, and are out there to get you hard earned dollars, is one more greedy than the other? Absolutely, you don't need anyone to tell you that, the fact that the card has not been released shows they are in panic mode. It's called hubris, Google it.

Anyways, the obvious headline had the obvious results and add revenue is what drives this site, so I guess it's all good as long as TPU and other hardware news outlets benefits from it, so carry on my dear green and red teams fans :toast:
Posted on Reply
#24
Casecutter
Well I say Nvidia will to scrap the 3-Slot cooler and work the board with a nicer water cooling set-up, juice the clocks... while drop the price by $1,000.

I think we all recognize the cooler is what holds them back, abandoning the cooler is the only face saving move they have. I wonder how far they had been on pulling the trigger to commence that air cooler to a full scale production? Probably have 25% of the anticipated volume finish in the pipe, and perhaps another 40% in parts and production, they almost certainly just pulled the plug on all that weeks ago.

Now they are doing a quick CNC of a traditional water block for everybody (GPU’s/VRM’s), while procuring some existing pump/radiator combo (although can’t think of someone that has that they could scavenge/partner it from) then push stratospheric clocks… and market as a win!

I would think Nvidia is to far on the boards, need the premium outlet for a bunch of good GK110… While eating a bunch in Engineering and tooling is a small price to pay to keep uphold their reputation and retain respect. If they can't they are in a bad spot...
Posted on Reply
#25
TheMailMan78
Big Member
Easy Rhino said:
Well that is just your opinion. That doesn't mean PC gaming is dead.
Who said anything about PC gaming? I said GAMING AS A WHOLE. Everyone is so defensive of the damn truth they don't even read and comprehend the facts when it clashes with their ideology.

How many games do you buy full price a year now Rhino? One? Maybe Two? Gaming is sickly right now. Its just a fact. Buying a shit ton of Steam Sale Winter games half of which you will never play means NOTHING. Its the Summer months of block busters. How many does ANYONE on here pay full price for on day one. Last massive debut was Titan Fall.........that game sucked yet it was revered as awesome by the rags and kiddies online. It was just a simple FPS with a low player count on a 10 year old engine......BIG F#$KING DEAL.
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