So why is nv adjusting the price of the 770 if the 285 is supposed to not be as good?

Probably because the performance difference isn't that far apart i figure

eidairaman1So why is nv adjusting the price of the 770 if the 285 is supposed to not be as good?

Obviously to make it a more attractive option than it was.

The prosaic and likely answer is, with the GTX 980/970 incoming, Nvidia are looking to align prices ahead of the launch and/or clear inventory if the 970 (or possibly a GTX 960 Ti ?) EOL's the 770.

The company generally doesn't lower prices on a whim, and since the 285 doesn't bring anything new to the table on performance or pricing (given current R9 280 prices), the obvious alternative is an inventory clearance. If the company were looking at some kind of price vs. performance metric you'd think that the GTX 760 might be the one getting the price cut.

eidairaman1So why is nv adjusting the price of the 770 if the 285 is supposed to not be as good?

Most likely due to many things:

For starters the 285 is a better 7950 and does show improvements over the dated Tahiti cores. With that in mind the card in many tests competes with the 770 all the while costing less which makes it more attractive to budget consumers (since the 280 is moving out even though it's the best buy atm).

Next you have the 9XX series release and depending on where nvidia intends to release the 980 core (probably 600+ based on some other price changes) they have to adjust things accordingly. If prices do not fall in line whether people will buy them then they will not get purchased.

Factor those together and you get a price change. It's no surprise and I bet we are going to see a lot more around the corner (I've already seen 780ti cards for ~550). The R9 285 is no game changer, but the improvements on the platform is enough to cause for some changes necessary for proper competition.

"Tweaking" LOL

HumanSmokethe 285 doesn't bring anything new to the table on performance

I think you are confused, actually it does bring performance improvements. I wrote it under the review where in certain applications the performance jump is more than obvious.

Why are you so negative towards this launch?

Sony Xperia SI think you are confused,

Not in the least. My basis is:
285 offers 12.8% better performancethan the 280 for a 25% increasein price - in factNewegg's pricing says the majority of R9 280'shave a better price/performance ratio than the 285

Sony Xperia Sactually it does bring performance improvements. I wrote it under the review where in certain applications the performance jump is more than obvious.

Well if you need "certain applications" then all well and good - you look hard enough and most cards have at least one selling point, but the majority of people use it for gaming in general - and in general 12.8% more performance for a 25% hike in price doesn't make it a star, especially since power consumption hasn't really been addressed and AMD quietly slipped in a decrease in double precision from 1:4 with the R9 280 to 1:16 with the R9 285 - no doubt other people have use for FP64 for "certain applications", because it apparently matters to you too...so do you consider the 285's 75% reduction in double precision some kind of selling point?

Sony Xperia SI am a gamer and I need my fully-enabled FP rate! Be it 1/3 or 1/4 but not so ugly crippled to 1/8 or even worse to 1/24.

So what is it, important, or just important when it suits your current argument?

Sony Xperia SWhy are you so negative towards this launch?

I'm actually less negative about the launch than I am about condescending hypocrites , but in general, if a company launches a card with an inferior price/performance metric than the card it is replacing, then I don't consider it a success...so I consider that less "confused" than a realistic interpretation of the current situation. Feel free to wax on about colour compression, true audio, and whatever else is the current buzz phrase Sunnyvale is spoon feeding the masses - but unless it has tangible benefits for the majority of the user base its actual value isn't that pertinent.

HumanSmokeNot in the least. My basis is:
285 offers 12.8% better performancethan the 280 for a 25% increasein price - in factNewegg's pricing says the majority of R9 280'shave a better price/performance ratio than the 285

I think the US pricing is skewed somehow (after effects of the mining thing?), because here the prices makes a lot more sense.

So, basically it is a double renamed product (HD7950->R9-280->R9-285) taking on a new GPU (GTX 770). Hm.

FrickI think the US pricing is skewed somehow (after effects of the mining thing?), because here the prices makes a lot more sense.

Well, they're probably different for a lot of places depending upon geographic distribution channels. The paradigm obviously changes with pricing - and I used U.S. pricing since this sites reviews (and most others) use it as a comparative base, as well as the fact that I use U.S. etail even though I live 10,500km from the U.S. stores.
Locally, in New Zealand, there is actually a premium attached to AMD cards compared to the U.S.

RejZoRSo, basically it is a double renamed product (HD7950->R9-280->R9-285) taking on a new GPU (GTX 770). Hm.

Well, there are enough design tweaks to consider Tonga an evolution of Tahiti I think rather than a rebrand, and I wouldn't consider the GTX 770 a "new" GPU since it is the same GK104 that the GTX 680 uses - improved memory controller aside.

eidairaman1So why is nv adjusting the price of the 770 if the 285 is supposed to not be as good?

To keep AMD in the dirt? Honestly the profit margins on Kepler are asinine, they could drop prices a good bit more than that and still bring in fistfuls of cash.

LAN_deRf_HATo keep AMD in the dirt? Honestly the profit margins on Kepler are asinine, they could drop prices a good bit more than that and still bring in fistfuls of cash.

I doubt Nvidia is content with mere fistfuls of cash... More like tractor trailers of cash. :roll:

ironwolfI doubt Nvidia is content with mere fistfuls of cash... More like tractor trailers of cash. :roll:

Nvidia is a profitable corporation. Taken from MSN Money......

Nvidia
Sales* 4.40 Bil
Income* 530.14 Mil
Sales Growth* -3.50%
Income Growth* -21.80%
Net Profit Margin 12.04%
Debt/Equity Ratio 0.32
Beta 1.73
EPS 0.92
Forward P/E 15.17
P/E 21.42
Market Cap 10.67 Bil


AMD
Sales* 5.89 Bil
Income* 81.00 Mil
Sales Growth* -2.30%
Income Growth* NA
Net Profit Margin 1.38%
Debt/Equity Ratio 0.20
Beta 2.64
EPS 0.11
Forward P/E 20.32
P/E 39.29
Market Cap 3.22 Bil

AMD had greater sales but look at the profit margin for each company. imo Nvidia charges too much for their product and AMD charges too little. Hopefully things will look up for AMD from newgen console sales if they are charging Sony and MS enough for their chips.

Is that AMD info including their CPU market as well? I can't recall solely in the GPU market AMD ever matching NVida in sales, perhaps my memory serves me incorrectly, at my age it's easy to get lost on the way home from work! :)

RejZoRSo, basically it is a double renamed product (HD7950->R9-280->R9-285) taking on a new GPU (GTX 770). Hm.

Tonga is an evolution of Hawaii scaled down to 280 level.
It is a replacement not a rebrand.
It has all the tech of Hawaii and additional improvements in tesselation and some special sauce frame buffer lossless compression. That compression allows a higher Pixel fill rate than the 280 despite narrower bus.


GTX770 comes down in price because it has competition from 280x and 285 ...
techreport.com/review/26997/amd-radeon-r9-285-graphics-card-reviewed/4

Tatty_OneIs that AMD info including their CPU market as well? I can't recall solely in the GPU market AMD ever matching NVida in sales, perhaps my memory serves me incorrectly, at my age it's easy to get lost on the way home from work! :)

Yes. It's their total sales. Just to give a comparison look at how Intel is doing.

Sales* 53.91 Bil
Income* 10.30 Bil
Sales Growth* -1.20%
Income Growth* -12.60%
Net Profit Margin 19.11%
Debt/Equity Ratio 0.22
Beta 0.91
EPS 2.02
Forward P/E 14.91
P/E 17.38
Market Cap 173.19 Bil
Shares Outstanding 4.95 Bil

AMD simply charges too little and has very little to spend on R&D.

Tatty_OneIs that AMD info including their CPU market as well? I can't recall solely in the GPU market AMD ever matching NVida in sales, perhaps my memory serves me incorrectly, at my age it's easy to get lost on the way home from work! :)

Well you have to also include the crypto currency boom in that list because that skewed the results in sales. I mean that's why ebay is loaded now with used AMD GPU's and why you see people sometimes selling as much as 20 R9 series cards.

RejZoRSo, basically it is a double renamed product (HD7950->R9-280->R9-285) taking on a new GPU (GTX 770). Hm.

Nah, its aimed at the GTX 760 to compete in an area with more performance to watt. The R9 285X is going to be the GTX 770 competitor once its eventually revealed (Mostly just based on what is known about it).

As someone who's been considering a sidegrade for a while, this is great news.... i dont care if 770s are a redux of 680s - 2 of them will still fuck shit up @ 1440p. Im fine with it being SLi, Im even more fine with it giving better than Titan performance for pretty much almost half the price.

Single GPU is my rule. Don't like multi-GPU setups because even after all these years, they are still buggy as hell. One would expect they'd solve i by now. But with single GPU, i had like 3 problems in the entire time i'm on PC platform.

RejZoRSingle GPU is my rule. Don't like multi-GPU setups because even after all these years, they are still buggy as hell. One would expect they'd solve i by now. But with single GPU, i had like 3 problems in the entire time i'm on PC platform.

SLi works quite well.... Ive had 680s for probably close to if not over 2years now and I can honestly say that i havent had an problem at all. with AMD, i was having all sorts of problems with crossfire.


I wonder how long it would talk to see price drops in the UK.

A $50 drop (15%) from the going rate is more than a tweak, while what is their stated MSRP? Sure this has more to do with Nvidias' upcoming launch, and rumored movement of pricing down their Enthusiast card range. However, when AMD does it "OMG a pricing adjustment their running scared", and means they got nothing else to offer (retaining my money is a good thing). Here Nvidia die-hards build a "defensive wall" to stave off any critique.

The 770 is what Nvidia will make "their last stand" until a 960 is released (?). Nvidia probably can't bring themselves to work the margins of GK104's selling at $200-220, the 760 will just fade quickly being squeezed by the 270X-285. Rather than castrating chips for little profit... the 770 is manning the mainstream. But therein lies their predicament, a gaping hole between again a pricey GTX750Ti and the GTX770. AMD has cards positioned all throughout, at the low end 260X spars with GTX750Ti for less, while the 280X is easily found less than its' $300 MSRP. Sure W1zzard may show a 770 above the 280X, more often many reviews have them trading blows (title specific) more than what such a "summary" implies.

So, yes Nvidia finally compelled to be competitive... While I'm sure most of us can invision well before Black Friday or folk buying Christmas presents AMD will have the 285 at around $210-220 (deals and rebates), so this has no bearing on what the 285 is doing, and conversely more about what Nvidia is/isn’t… in the market.

CasecutterA $50 drop (15%) from the going rate is more than a tweak, while what is their stated MSRP? Sure this has more to do with Nvidias' upcoming launch, and rumored movement of pricing down their Enthusiast card range. However, when AMD does it "OMG a pricing adjustment their running scared", and means they got nothing else to offer (retaining my money is a good thing). Here Nvidia die-hards build a "defensive wall" to stave off any critique.

Well said, I have noticed the same people doing this on every thread regarding the 285 and in any thread regarding AMD.

Its pretty obvious that prices have to change in accordance with the way things are going. This month alot of changes are coming to the GPU lineups so its apparent that price adjustments were in order.

64KYes. It's their total sales. Just to give a comparison look at how Intel is doing.

Sales* 53.91 Bil
Income* 10.30 Bil
Sales Growth* -1.20%
Income Growth* -12.60%
Net Profit Margin 19.11%
Debt/Equity Ratio 0.22
Beta 0.91
EPS 2.02
Forward P/E 14.91
P/E 17.38
Market Cap 173.19 Bil
Shares Outstanding 4.95 Bil

AMD simply charges too little and has very little to spend on R&D.

Jesus Intel! :eek:

Give some of that money to AMD so they can put towards R&D too make better CPU's :roll::roll:

GhostRyderWell said, I have noticed the same people doing this on every thread regarding the 285 and in any thread regarding AMD.

Its pretty obvious that prices have to change in accordance with the way things are going. This month alot of changes are coming to the GPU lineups so its apparent that price adjustments were in order.

Eh eitherway im goin for a 290 VaporX

Tatty_OneIs that AMD info including their CPU market as well? I can't recall solely in the GPU market AMD ever matching NVidia in sales, perhaps my memory serves me incorrectly, at my age it's easy to get lost on the way home from work! :)

You'd need to go back to 1998-99 and the window between 3Dfx's last hurrah and the arrival of the GeForce2. ATI was the choice de jour for a lot of big OEM's back in the day ( IIRC in 1998 ATI's profit was four times that of Nvidia- $1.2 billion revenue ($160m profit) to Nvidia's $374.5m revenue ($41m profit)....the times, they are a-changin'

CasecutterHowever, when AMD does it "OMG a pricing adjustment their running scared", and means they got nothing else to offer (retaining my money is a good thing).

Well, can't speak for anyone else but I did point out that AMD are doing the exact same thing- clearing inventory as the SKU goes EOL - with the R9 280.

CasecutterHere Nvidia die-hards build a "defensive wall" to stave off any critique. The 770 is what Nvidia will make "their last stand" until a 960 is released (?).

LOL...rants on about one groups skewed worldview by answering it with hyperbole! :laugh: Yes, you're 1,0000,000% right, Nvidia as a company rises or falls on GTX 770 sales :rolleyes:

CasecutterNvidia probably can't bring themselves to work the margins of GK104's selling at $200-220, the 760 will just fade quickly being squeezed by the 270X-285.....etc,. etc. etc.

...and yet, the graphics card market shares indicate no apparent reason why 1. Nvidia would sell at $200-220, and 2. Why the company would upset the cosy pricing arrangement it seems to have with AMD to keep pricing relatively stable. For two - by your opinion - companies at each others throats, there hasn't been a graphics price war in the modern era aside from some minor single SKU skirmishes.
But you're right, Nvidia are clearly doomed as the discrete graphics market share clearly show - and there is no possible way that the imminent release of the Maxwell based cards will alter the companies prospects...even with Rory Read pronouncing that "AMD still has to get through 18 months of old technology before the new chips are available" - I guess either Nvidia really are in the toilet or your predictions are as accurate as usual

CasecutterWhile I'm sure most of us can invision well before Black Friday or folk buying Christmas presents AMD will have the 285 at around $210-220 (deals and rebates), so this has no bearing on what the 285 is doing, and conversely more about what Nvidia is/isn’t… in the market.

Ah, the long term view - don't worry about now because Winter Christmas is coming. You can invision a change in AMD circumstance, but assume the competition will be standing still. You really need to hoof it Sunnyvale with your resume - this is just the exactly kind of management outlook that put AMD's CPU business in the driving seat.