Tuesday, January 1st 2019

NVIDIA Faces New Class Action Lawsuit Over Cryptocurrency-related GPU Demand Drop

The new year does not seem to bring good tidings alone for NVIDIA, with yet another class action lawsuit promising to keep their legal team busy. When we first posted about NVIDIA stock prices falling 2.1% following the launch of their Turing microarchitecture cards, there was no warning that just a few days after that post things would get worse. Indeed, as of today, the NVIDIA stock price on the NASDAQ stock market has fallen nearly 54% from the 1-year high that was only this past calendar quarter. California-based Schall law firm believes this drop in price can be attributed to more than just the volatile trading that has been ongoing in general in the stock markets, and has decided to file a class action lawsuit against NVIDIA.

Schall Law believes, and we quote, "the Company made false and misleading statements to the market. NVIDIA touted its ability to monitor the cryptocurrency market and make rapid changes to its business as necessary. The Company claimed to be "masters at managing our channel, and we understand the channel very well." NVIDIA also claimed to the market that any drop off in demand for its GPUs amongst cryptocurrency miners would not negatively impact the Company's business because of strong demand for GPUs from the gaming market. Based on these facts, the Company's public statements were false and materially misleading throughout the class period. When the market learned the truth about NVIDIA, investors suffered damages." These are strong words indeed, as oft is the case with the launch of class action lawsuits, and they have put out a press statement to accompany a link for those wanting to join along which can be seen in the source below.
Source: Schall Law Firm
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98 Comments on NVIDIA Faces New Class Action Lawsuit Over Cryptocurrency-related GPU Demand Drop

#51
R-T-B
moproblems99, post: 3968792, member: 155919"
I am a gamer too and have more and more moved to SP only games. I used to form many friendships with people I met gaming that actually transferred to permanent friendships. Not anymore. Pub gaming is like going to Corvette events, if you have ever been around Corvette clubs then you know what I am talking about.
I find cooperative games are better. Vermintide, DRG and the like. But I feel your pain.
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#52
lynx29
moproblems99, post: 3968787, member: 155919"
Gamers pretty much do nothing but whine anymore and would be the last market that I would give preferential treatment. See every thread that has anything to do with a GPU or CPU. Even doubly so if I was AMD as they couldn't get gamers to buy their cards when they were better.

GPUs are no longer solely intended for gaming and gamers are going to have to live with that.

EDIT: In addition, it was not difficult to get cards near MSRP during 90% of the market boom if you put even a shred of effort in.
umm mining is dead... so yeah gamers are the only market right now actually :D but sure thing bud.
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#53
GoldenX
I don't see how Nvidia Is to blame for this.
Crypto should be taxed and regulated anyway.
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#54
moproblems99
lynx29, post: 3968794, member: 153071"
umm mining is dead... so yeah gamers are the only market right now actually :D but sure thing bud.
Mining may be dead but it is far from the only market.

Edit: Gaming is far from the only market.
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#55
R-T-B
Vya Domus, post: 3968791, member: 169281"
All of this "we only buy 4 cards " is bollocks, pardon my french
No, it isn't. You are failing to see a subgroup in the larger "mining" group.

moproblems99, post: 3968797, member: 155919"
Mining may be dead but it is far from the only market.

Edit: Gaming is far from the only market.
Yep. We are second now to compute. Even Intel knows this.
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#56
Darmok N Jalad
I’m not sure how AMD and NVidia were to manage it. If a big chunk of your market just crashed, demand not only goes down because of lost customers (who bought in volume, no less), but now there’s a durth of used cards on the market. I was able to get a Nitro+ RX 480 for about half the price of a new 580, so I wonder how many buyers didn’t buy new once reality kicked in.
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#57
Vya Domus
moproblems99, post: 3968792, member: 155919"
One or two large scale mining farms did more damage than most of the small time miners combined.
So you are finally agreeing that small time miners did in fact contribute to this to a degree, thanks. Though, evidently, this claim of yours that one or two mining farms did more damage is purely speculative I imagine. Unless of course you have something to back that up.
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#58
moproblems99
Vya Domus, post: 3968802, member: 169281"
So you are finally agreeing that small time miners did in fact contribute to this to a degree, thanks. Though, evidently, this claim of yours that one or two mining farms did more damage is purely speculative I imagine. Unless of course you have something to back that up.
Holy crap, really?

I literally clarified before that I meant in the grand scheme of things. Also, GPUs are no longer primarily gaming devices. If you want a citation just look at why AMD isn't competing on the high-end. Hint: it isn't because they can't.
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#59
Vya Domus
moproblems99, post: 3968804, member: 155919"
Holy crap, really?
Asking for some sort of proof for your claims, I know, shocking.
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#60
Xzibit
GoldenX, post: 3968795, member: 160319"
I don't see how Nvidia Is to blame for this.
Crypto should be taxed and regulated anyway.
The basis is misleading statements to their investors. Mainly the last conference call Q&A session. They are a few Q's about Inventory that just were badly handled in retrospect if this sticks.

Jensen Huang CEO
We’re expecting the channel inventory to work itself out. We are masters at managing our channel, and we understand the channel very well. As you know, the way that we go to market is through the channels around the world. We’re not concerned about the channel inventory.
Colette Kress CFO
Yes. So, let me take your first part of the question regarding our gross margins and what we have
seen from crypto. Although crypto revenue may not be large, it still has a derivative impact on our stack in terms of what we are selling and to both replenish the overall channel and such. So, over the last several quarters, that we had stabilizing that overall channel, we did get the great effect of selling just about everything and our margins really been able to benefit from that.
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#61
lynx29
moproblems99, post: 3968797, member: 155919"
Mining may be dead but it is far from the only market.

Edit: Gaming is far from the only market.
I would need to see actual charts to believe you. Compute cards at the industry level are a different branch of graphics card not sold to consumers generally, secondly, compute is a niche market, sure a lot of us here do it, folding at home, so on and so forth, but it's still very niche when you look at numbers. I bet if we had the actual numbers 70% of all gpu sales would be for gamers right now.
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#62
moproblems99
Vya Domus, post: 3968806, member: 169281"
Asking for some sort of proof for your claims, I know, shocking.
No the holy crap was at the level you are needing to be spooned data.

Here is some data for you. One farm has 1.3 PetaHashes. A 580 or 1070 does about 30 mega hashes. Do the math and tell me how many cards that is. Let's be careless and assume that they were using 580s or 1070s and they were mining Ether. Now after you have done that, tell me how many small miners buying 4 cards it takes to equal that.

lynx29, post: 3968808, member: 153071"
I would need to see actual charts to believe you. Compute cards at the industry level are a different branch of graphics card not sold to consumers generally, secondly, compute is a niche market, sure a lot of us here do it, folding at home, so on and so forth, but it's still very niche when you look at numbers. I bet if we had the actual numbers 70% of all gpu sales would be for gamers right now.
Awesome!
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#63
Totally
lynx29, post: 3968808, member: 153071"
I would need to see actual charts to believe you. Compute cards at the industry level are a different branch of graphics card not sold to consumers generally, secondly, compute is a niche market, sure a lot of us here do it, folding at home, so on and so forth, but it's still very niche when you look at numbers. I bet if we had the actual numbers 70% of all gpu sales would be for gamers right now.
I wouldn't say 70%, probably closer to 35-40% of all gpus would end up in the consumer space, but I can imagine 70% being the number that gamers represent of that 40%.
Posted on Reply
#64
Vya Domus
moproblems99, post: 3968804, member: 155919"
GPUs are no longer primarily gaming devices.
They are primarily devices meant for computing graphics workloads. A lot of the hardware inside them is still fixed function, compute isn't the main focus by any stretch of the imagination, it's a mere addition/adaptation.

moproblems99, post: 3968810, member: 155919"
No the holy crap was at the level you are needing to be spooned data.
Dada that you didn't provide. Let me make myself clear once again maybe you didn't understood what portion of your comment I was referencing,

moproblems99, post: 3968804, member: 155919"
One or two large scale mining farms did more damage than most of the small time miners combined.
Throw out some numbers, a metric of some sort, anything to back that up. What sort of damage are you even referring to ?
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#65
moproblems99
Vya Domus, post: 3968812, member: 169281"
Throw out some numbers, a metric of some sort, anything to back that up. What sort of damage are you even referring to ?
Please see edit.
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#66
GoldenX
Xzibit, post: 3968807, member: 105152"
The basis is misleading statements to their investors. Mainly the last conference call Q&A session. They are a few Q's about Inventory that just were badly handled in retrospect if this sticks.
It sounds like real life happened and now a bunch of angry (and "very productive mining") people are looking for someone to blame.
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#67
moproblems99
GoldenX, post: 3968815, member: 160319"
It sounds like real life happened and now a bunch of angry (and "very productive mining") people are looking for someone to blame.
Please please please tell me you know the difference between Wall Street and Cryptocurrency mining.

Edit: added mining to the last sentence.
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#68
Vya Domus
moproblems99, post: 3968810, member: 155919"
tell me how many small miners buying 4 cards it takes to equal that.
Why 4 ? Is this a magic number of some sort ? You insist on keeping these particular quantities when they mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of tings. A GPU used for mining is a GPU used for mining be it in a farm or in a PC at home. Everyone did their part, in a bigger or smaller manner.
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#69
Xzibit
GoldenX, post: 3968815, member: 160319"
It sounds like real life happened and now a bunch of angry (and "very productive mining") people are looking for someone to blame.
Well he was asked this

Joe Moore - Morgan Stanley
Q1:--some of the GeForce business was being driven by crypto. Can you -- looking backwards, can you size that for us? And I guess if
Q2: I am trying to understand the impact the crypto would have on the guidance for October, given that it seems it was very small in the July quarter?
Jensen Huang CEO
Well, I think the second question is easier to answer and the reason -- the first one is just ambiguous. It’s hard to predict, anyway. It’s hard to estimate, no matter what. But, the second question, the answer is we’re expecting -- we’re projecting zero basically. And for the first question, how much of GeForce could’ve been used for crypto?
Not saying something will come of it but you have the CFO and CEO reassuring investors about the channel inventory and the impact of Crypto.
Posted on Reply
#70
moproblems99
Vya Domus, post: 3968817, member: 169281"
Why 4 ?
Because it comes after three and before five.

Edit: spelling.
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#71
Vya Domus
moproblems99, post: 3968820, member: 155919"
Because it comes after three and before five.
Figured most your points use a similar logic. Thanks for this insightful discussion.
Posted on Reply
#72
moproblems99
Vya Domus, post: 3968817, member: 169281"
ou insist on keeping these particular quantities when they mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of tings.
Yup, exactly like small miners. Glad to see we came full circle.
Posted on Reply
#73
Nkd
Renald, post: 3968633, member: 130756"
You can blame nvidia for many thing, but not for that. It took everybody by surprise in like 2 weeks time.
Stock and then no stock.
No. If Nvidia did indeed lie to shareholders about the whole situation and mislead them. Sure they can be in get a slap on the hand for it. Might not be as clear cut as a simple mistake. AMD seems to have managed it well. While Nvidia did have shit load of GTX 1060s I think. Plus their refusal to drop price to move them faster was mind boggling. You could grab an rx 580 for 200 while gtx 1060s were still going above $250+ for 6gb model.
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#74
R-T-B
Vya Domus, post: 3968802, member: 169281"
Though, evidently, this claim of yours that one or two mining farms did more damage is purely speculative I imagine.
The flood images out of China have me inclined to believe it.

Vya Domus, post: 3968817, member: 169281"
Why 4 ? Is this a magic number of some sort ? You insist on keeping these particular quantities when they mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of tings. A GPU used for mining is a GPU used for mining be it in a farm or in a PC at home. Everyone did their part, in a bigger or smaller manner.
4 is a good rig "cost to benefit" ratio.

Personally I'd be fine with 2.

GoldenX, post: 3968815, member: 160319"
It sounds like real life happened and now a bunch of angry (and "very productive mining") people are looking for someone to blame.
It's the stock market looking for someone to blame. Kinda the same type though...
Posted on Reply
#75
hat
Enthusiast
Vya Domus, post: 3968821, member: 169281"
Figured most your points use a similar logic. Thanks for this insightful discussion.
To be fair, I haven't seen you show any data, either. Please submit your pie chart detailing damages done to the market by small time miners with "4" cards (I only bought two myself) against damages done by huge farms taking cards by the pallet or worse (anyone remember that article about somebody taking cargo planes full of cards?). Until then, you just salty bruh.

As for the actual topic at hand, that is, nVidia being sued for a drop in stock... I mean, I've shit on nVidia quite a few times on the forums for this and that, but this, I think is a bit ridiculous. I would hope that nobody with half a mind was actually relying on that bubble. I went and got two cards, on credit even, when mining profits were really good... but I knew full well it could implode on itself at any time. You've gotta be something special to get all up in arms when your risky investment blows up all over the launch pad. Surely the guys responsible for moving that kind of money knew this was possible... right? I would be inclined to believe nVidia's stock tanked because there was a boom in demand, from miners, and that demand dropped just like the crypto market dropped. That isn't nVidia's fault. Everyone was pissed at them before when they couldn't keep anything in stock, and now investors are pissed because the stock has dropped. nVidia can't win for nothing right now.
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