Wednesday, January 9th 2019

AMD's CES 2019 Keynote - Stream & Live Blog

CPUs or GPUs? Ryzen 3000 series up to 16 cores or keeping their eight? Support for raytracing? Navi or die-shrunk Vega for consumer graphics? The questions around AMD's plans for 2019 are still very much in the open, but AMD's Lisa Su's impending livestream should field the answers to many of these questions, so be sure to watch the full livestream, happening in just a moment.

You can find the live stream here, at YouTube.

18:33 UTC: Looking forward, Lisa mentioned a few technology names without giving additional details: "... when you're talking about future cores, Zen 2, Zen 3, Zen 4, Zen 5, Navi, we're putting all of these architectures together, in new ways".

18:20 UTC: New Ryzen 3rd generation processors have been teased. The upcoming processors are based on Zen 2, using 7 nanometer technology. AMD showed a live demo of Forza Horizon 4, using Ryzen third generation, paired with Radeon Vega VII, which is running "consistently over 100 FPS at highest details at 1080p resolution". A second demo, using Cinebench, pitted an 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 3rd generation processor against the Intel Core i9-9900K. The Ryzen CPU was "not final frequency, an early sample". Ryzen achieved a score of 2057 using 135 W, while Intel achieved a score of 2040 using 180 W.. things are looking good for Ryzen 3rd generation indeed. Lisa also confirmed that next-gen Ryzen will support PCI-Express 4.0, which doubles the bandwidth per lane over PCI-Express 3.0. Ryzen third generation will run on the same AM4 infrastructure as current Ryzen; all existing users of Ryzen can simply upgrade to the new processors, when they launch in the middle of 2019 (we think Computex).
Ryzen third generation uses a chiplet design. The smaller die on the right contains 8-cores/16-threads using 7 nanometer technology. The larger die on the left is the IO die, which consists of things like the memory controller and PCI-Express connectivity, to shuffle data between the CPU core die and the rest of the system.
18:10 UTC: Shifting gears now to talk about processors. First up is EPYC 2nd generation, built using on the 7 nanometer process. A scientific demo was presented showing a single EPYC processor, beating two Intel Xeon 8180 processors (28 core/56 thread), by a significant amount. Regarding availability, Lisa said that EPYC second generation "is absolutely on track and we will start shipping in the middle of 2019".
18:05 UTC: Lisa announced a partnership with Google, to deliver AAA game streaming to end-users. A demo of Assassin's Creed: Odyssey was shown running at 1080p with 60 FPS. The servers are located in Google's cloud and are powered by AMD Radeon GPUs.

17:55 UTC: Ubisoft just confirmed that "at launch, the Division 2 will support the full set of advanced Radeon technology features" (Rapid Packed Math, Async Compute and Shader Intrinsics). AMD is bundling the game with all Radeon VII cards, and select Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 processors for free.

17:45 UTC: AMD Radeon VII (pronounced "Radeon Seven") has been unveiled - the next gaming GPU from AMD. It's the world's first 7 nm gaming GPU, based on the Vega 10 shrink to the 7 nm node; this is not Navi. The card has "only" 60 CUs, which is a few less than Vega 64, but to make up for that, it is clocked higher. Thanks to 7 nanometer technology, power draw is lower, which helps keep temperatures and noise levels down, too. Gaming performance is up 35-42% in games, thanks to a massive 1.8 GHz clock speed. This should make the card competitive with NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 2080 as shown by a slide during the event. With 16 GB of HBM2 memory, the card features an insane amount of memory for just gaming, which is probably why AMD is marketing the card at "creators" too, not unlike what NVIDIA does with Titan. The HBM2 memory is connected to the GPU using a 4096-bit memory interface.

Radeon VII releases on February 7th at a price of $699. For a limited time the card will be bundled with Devil May Cry 5, Resident Evil 2 and The Division 2.

17:43 UTC: Lisa is talking about AMD's new Radeon software Adrenalin 2019, which we covered in great detail here.

17:40 UTC: Phil Spencer, Head of Gaming, Microsoft is on stage and praises the relationship between AMD and Microsoft, and confirms that the companies will work on future projects together, which probably means next-gen Xbox consoles.

17:30 UTC: AMD is announcing that their Radeon Software will now be a first class citizen for Ryzen Mobile systems, which probably means that Ryzen Desktop APUs will also receive this kind of driver support. In the past this was a big issue for many users. The new drivers will be available directly from AMD's website, starting February 2019.
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132 Comments on AMD's CES 2019 Keynote - Stream & Live Blog

#76
SIGSEGV
toyo said:
Extremely disappointed by the new VIII GPU. where the "approx. 300-400USD 1080ti perf."?
Yup, that was clearly a lie.
link? who's said something like that?

so there's no news about 12 or even 16 cores consumer grade ryzen 3K?
Posted on Reply
#77
Metroid
SIGSEGV said:
link? who's said something like that?

so there's no news about 12 or even 16 cores consumer grade ryzen 3K?
I'm skeptical about those 12 or 16 cores, amd showed only an 8 cores 16 threads to match the i9 9900k for the demonstration but something to watch about it was the announcement of epic coming with 64 cores means doubling it from 32 cores, that means 12 cores and 16 cores will likely happen cause of the chiplet design.

If leaks are right, amd showed a ryzen 5 3600 $229, 4.8ghz hehe to match the i9 9900k $599. Ryzen 5 beat it, also like i said before if is good then cpus will also be priced higher than leaked, leak was $229, I say $299. Now the question is about single thread, they should have done that too but they did not which means it might lag behind intel still, I personally dont think so. I think ryzen 3 will lead on single thread too.
Posted on Reply
#78
toyo
SIGSEGV said:
link? who's said something like that?

so there's no news about 12 or even 16 cores consumer grade ryzen 3K?
Well, who else but the top AMD leaker, Adored.
<div class="youtube-embed" data-id="PCdsTBsH-rI"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PCdsTBsH-rI/hqdefault.jpg" /><div class="youtube-play"></div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdsTBsH-rI" target="_blank" class="youtube-title"></a></div>
Posted on Reply
#79
M2B
Vega 64 was as fast a GTX 1080 on the same node.
The new Radeon VII is as fast as a RTX 2080 on a much better node, this is even a bigger fail than Vega 64 was, it's Game Over AMD.
Posted on Reply
#80
TheLostSwede
Metroid said:
I'm skeptical about those 12 or 16 cores, amd showed only an 8 cores 16 threads to match the i9 9900k for the demonstration but something to watch about it was the announcement of epic coming with 64 cores means doubling it from 32 cores, that means 12 cores and 16 cores will likely happen cause of the chiplet design.
From what I know, 12 and 16 cores are coming. Sadly I can't say how I know this, but let's just say that I have "industry" sources.
If you didn't notice when she was showing off the chip, it was quite obvious there were traces under the part without a chiplet, so another chiplet or possibly a GPU could go there.
Also, PCIe 4.0 is confirmed by Anandtech.
Posted on Reply
#81
yakk
phanbuey said:
AMD shares TAAANKED with this announcement... I'm actually on the ride down.


That's just a normal standard trading tactic:

Buy the rumor, sell the news.

Wait

Buy back after news fallout price.
Posted on Reply
#82
R0H1T
toyo said:
Well, who else but the top AMD leaker, Adored.
<div class="youtube-embed" data-id="PCdsTBsH-rI"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PCdsTBsH-rI/hqdefault.jpg" /><div class="youtube-play"></div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdsTBsH-rI" target="_blank" class="youtube-title"></a></div>

That was Navi w/GDDR6, this is Vega just FYI.
Posted on Reply
#83
phanbuey
yakk said:
That's just a normal standard trading tactic:

Buy the rumor, sell the news.

Wait

Buy back after news fallout price.
That has not been the case the last few announcements. The Rome announcement saw them pop 8% and the Ryzen announcement was great as well. Normally they would dip later when everyone was selling off the gains... As soon as she mentioned the price the stock went from +4% to being down 1%.

It's because their product won't challenge nvidia in the slightest.
Posted on Reply
#84
Metroid
yakk said:
That's just a normal standard trading tactic:

Buy the rumor, sell the news.

Wait

Buy back after news fallout price.
Exatcly, I would hold on to, there are too many good things coming from amd which might make a new rise on share prices.
Posted on Reply
#85
toyo
R0H1T said:
That was Navi w/GDDR6, this is Vega just FYI.
It's a leak, of course he didn't exactly know architectures and stuff. If you think that Navi would drop the price 300USD while on the same process node, you'll be disappointed.
What matters is that this announcement shows what anyone should have understood by now:
- AMD is a corporation, and is just as immoral as all other corporations
- AMD is just as greedy as Nvidia
Posted on Reply
#86
Mistral
Was hoping for some Navi news, but I'll take this too. Now if we could only have an 8GB version of that VII, starting under $500...

toyo said:
- AMD is just as greedy as Nvidia
Nobody (let's imagine Apple doesn't exist) is as greedy and nVidia, nVidia has it built in their bloody name.
Posted on Reply
#87
R0H1T
toyo said:
It's a leak, of course he didn't exactly know architectures and stuff. If you think that Navi would drop the price 300USD while on the same process node, you'll be disappointed.
What matters is that this announcement shows what anyone should have understood by now:
- AMD is a corporation, and is just as immoral as all other corporations
- AMD is just as greedy as Nvidia
If you're basing your expectations on youtube videos then you'll be disappointed more often than not & perhaps another video shows that he was spot on?
<div class="youtube-embed" data-id="MG-onUm__c8:936"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MG-onUm__c8:936/hqdefault.jpg" /><div class="youtube-play"></div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG-onUm__c8:936" target="_blank" class="youtube-title"></a></div>
Check the part about Vega II GPU.
Posted on Reply
#88
Metroid
Waiting 4 months for 3770x is a long time, if some of you dont have a ryzen already then better to wait for the pcie 4.0 upgrade. Because of 4.0 pcie, AMD gave you a reason not to buy any ryzen now.
Posted on Reply
#89
yakk
phanbuey said:
That has not been the case the last few announcements. The Rome announcement saw them pop 8% and the Ryzen announcement was great as well. Normally they would dip later when everyone was selling off the gains... As soon as she mentioned the price the stock went from +4% to being down 1%.

It's because their product won't challenge nvidia in the slightest.
This time I wasn't, but if I were trading AMD I would've had my sell prepared to just hit Enter and also sold on R7 pricing, not because of price itself, but because presentation was losing steam. Day trading news is not only about the news itself, often it is style over substance unfortunately. I would've sold the stock, even if I'm definitely buying a VII card.
Posted on Reply
#90
phanbuey
yakk said:
This time I wasn't, but if I were trading AMD I would've had my sell prepared to just hit Enter and also sold on R7 pricing, not because of price itself, but because presentation was losing steam. Day trading news is not only about the news itself, often it is style over substance unfortunately. I would've sold the stock, even if I'm definitely buying a VII card.
AMD had a huge business opportunity to undercut nvidia's current RTX line up because of their high price and iffy set of features. They blew it, and the stock tanked. It's not because Lisa was up there 1 coffee cup short; it's because they came to market with the same product at the same price 6 months later.
Posted on Reply
#91
toyo
So, correct me if I'm wrong, that was all from AMD? No clear Ryzen 3000 announcement, no pricing? Or there's more of it coming from AMD at CES 2019?
Posted on Reply
#92
yakk
phanbuey said:
AMD had a huge business opportunity to undercut nvidia's current RTX line up because of their high price and iffy set of features. They blew it, and the stock tanked. It's not because Lisa was up there 1 coffee cup short; it's because they came to market with the same product at the same price 6 months later.
Awesome, this is what creates a market!
Posted on Reply
#93
nguyen
ugh...Radeon VII has only 25% more perf/watt compare to Vega 64 ? but RTX 2080 FE has like 90% more perf/watt compare to Vega 64. That means you are looking at 350W TDP card (215W x 1.65)
Posted on Reply
#94
Turmania
AMD, in my view has to offer performance not on level but at least 10% to 15% better performance to their rivals. Both CPU & GPU. As both Intel and Nvdia have yet to play their die shrink card. After today I do not think they will make it and the gapp will widen when others play the die shrink card.

toyo said:
So, correct me if I'm wrong, that was all from AMD? No clear Ryzen 3000 announcement, no pricing? Or there's more of it coming from AMD at CES 2019?
Just a teaser with very little info on CPU. Second half of the year we probably get more info and numbers.We can safely say they have improved but perhaps not as much as we were led to believe.
Posted on Reply
#95
toyo
Turmania said:
AMD, in my view has to offer performance not on level but at least 10% to 15% better performance to their rivals. Both CPU & GPU. As both Intel and Nvdia have yet to play their die shrink card. After today I do not think they will make it and the gapp will widen when others play the die shrink card.
Just a teaser with very little info on CPU. Second half of the year we probably get more info and numbers.We can safely say they have improved but perhaps not as much as we were led to believe.
My expectations at this point are super low. I recommended everyone to wait and not upgrade yet for like 1-2 months, expecting something from AMD that will properly compete with Intel and Nvidia at lower price points, for example how they did with the HD4850 back in the day.
Gonna just tell them to buy Nvidia and Intel I guess from now on, at least until the summer release gets closer.
Pretty salty and disappointed about all this, and I am not afraid or timid to say it. The one and only positive announcement from CES for now was Nvidia supporting A-Sync.

I really, REALLY wanted AMD to come with something really disruptive, I deeply dislike Adored, but I hoped he was correct in that video and others, because i want more power for consumers, and corporate greed kept in check. None of that happened. Greed marches forward.

Shame, shame, shame.
Posted on Reply
#96
yakk
Metroid said:
Exatcly, I would hold on to, there are too many good things coming from amd which might make a new rise on share prices.
Lots of good news, but be careful it may take a while... The market has been in a bear trend since November, I'm out since October, which is why I also sat this one out. Too choppy for me, but I'm glad I read this one right.
Posted on Reply
#97
Metroid
cinebench multithreading, ryzen 8 cores 16 threads sample, 2057 points, intel 9900k 8 cores 16 threads, 2040 points, now calculating cinebench single thread based on single cores, ryzen, 2057 / 8 = 257, intel 9900k 2040 / 8 = 255, from official review from techpower up on 9900k , multithread = 1914, single thread 218, if we use 1914 / 8 = 239 on single thread. For ryzen to have a score of 2057, single thread has to be very close to 9900k, close to 218 points on cinebench single thread benchmark.

Another example is ryzen 2700x, official results on techpowerup review, cinebench multithreading, 1819 points, single thread 179 points, 1819 / 8 = 227 and on cinebench single thread amd has only 179 points instead of 227 which means, 227 - 179 = 48 points which is around 25%. So if we factor the 25% on ryzen 3 sample we will have the final cinebench single thread result of = 257 - 60 points(25% to factor the constraints and to equalize on ryzen 2770x) = 197 points which is still lower than the i9 9900k from intel = 218 points, It is ryzen that good? It is 10% faster than ryzen 2770x on single thread and 10% slower than intel 9900k on cinebench single thread.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i9_9900K/9.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_7_2700X/9.html

I might be wrong about this as ryzen 3 sample could be as 10% slow than intel 9900k or equally on cinebench single thread.
Posted on Reply
#98
phanbuey
Metroid said:
cinebench multithreading, ryzen 8 cores 16 threads sample, 2557 points, intel 9900k 8 cores 16 threads, 2040 points, now calculating cinebench single thread based on single cores, ryzen, 2557 / 8 = 319.6, intel 9900k 2040 / 8 = 255, from official review from techpower up on 9900k , multithread = 1914, single thread 218, if we use 1914 / 8 = 239 on single thread. For ryzen to have a score of 2557, single thread has to be fantastic, close to 300 on cinebench single thread benchmark, that is really incredible.

Another example is ryzen 2700x, official results on techpowerup review, cinebench multithreading, 1819 points, single thread 179 points, 1819 / 8 = 227 and on cinebench single thread amd has only 179 points instead of 227 which means, 227 - 179 = 48 points which is around 25%. So if we factor the 25% on ryzen 3 sample we will have the final cinebench single thread result of = 242 points which is still better than the i9 9900k from intel = 219 points, It is ryzen that good? yes it is, lets hope price will too.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i9_9900K/9.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_7_2700X/9.html
I think it was 2057 not 2557?
Posted on Reply
#99
danbert2000
I think it makes sense not to cannibalize Threadripper sales by keeping Zen 2 to 8 cores/16 threads. I mean, that's all that Intel has going and all they need to do is increase IPC and frequencies to match the 9900k at a lower TDP. There looks like there is room for another chiplet if the time comes for moar corez, but come on people, how many cores do we really need if we aren't rendering? 16 threads is plenty and it will let AMD undercut Intel in price instead of matching them with more power than is needed.

Radeon 7 looks good too, though the 16 GB of HBM 2 looks a little unnecessary. I'm surprised they can throw up so much RAM and keep the price at the same level as the 2080 (lower, actually). I'll wait to hear about frequencies and TDP, but it already looks like this is the shot in the arm that AMD needed to avoid a total slaughter in the GPU market. They need to rush out 7 nm products to the mid range too since Vega 56/64 at 300 W compared to RTX 2060 at 180 W is a bad look. A new Vega 2 GPU at $400 matching the 2070 or cutting the difference between 2070 and 2060 would peel of plenty of buyers. And something at $250 that is a refresh of the Vega 56 level would capture the rest.

AMD has a good hand, let's hope they can follow up quickly with some actual value plays. It's looking more and more likely that my next build in 2 years (or less if stuff breaks) will have one or more AMD parts. Just hurry up and put out some good ITX boards!
Posted on Reply
#100
Metroid
phanbuey said:
I think it was 2057 not 2557?
18:20 UTC: New Ryzen 3rd generation processors have been teased. The upcoming processors are based on Zen 2, using 7 nanometer technology. AMD showed a live demo of Forza Horizon 4, using Ryzen third generation, paired with Radeon Vega VII, which is running "consistently over 100 FPS at highest details at 1080p resolution". A second demo, using Cinebench, pitted an 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 3rd generation processor against the Intel Core i9-9900K. The Ryzen CPU was "not final frequency, an early sample". Ryzen achieved a score of 2557 using 135 W, while Intel achieved a score of 2040 using 180 W.. things are looking good for Ryzen 3rd generation indeed. Lisa also confirmed that next-gen Ryzen will support PCI-Express 4.0, which doubles the bandwidth per lane over PCI-Express 3.0. Ryzen third generation will run on the same AM4 infrastructure as current Ryzen; all existing users of Ryzen can simply upgrade to the new processors, when they launch in the middle of 2019 (we think Computex).
This is from techpower up article.

https://www.techpowerup.com/251367/amds-ces-2019-keynote-stream-live-blog, actually is what we are talking about here.
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