Thursday, April 18th 2019

Intel Courting Samsung to Manufacture Xe GPUs?

Intel's Xe discrete GPU project head Raja Koduri recently visited a Samsung Electronics silicon fabrication facility in Korea at the backdrop of the company's major 5 nm EUV announcement. This sparks speculation that Koduri could be exploring Samsung's portfolio of sub-10 nm contract-manufacturing offerings to mass-produce Xe discrete GPUs. Intel's own foundry business is reeling with mounting pressure from the company's main breadwinner, the client and enterprise processor businesses, to get its 10 nm node on the road. Koduri's GPU would need to leverage higher transistor densities than what Intel's 10 nm could offer, given that rival AMD is already implementing 7 nm, and NVIDIA is expected to go sub-10 nm with its future generation of GPUs.
Sources: Raja Koduri (Twitter), Wuthering_HHH (Reddit)
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29 Comments on Intel Courting Samsung to Manufacture Xe GPUs?

#2
PhantomTaco
I wouldn't say that AMD has implemented 7nm GPUs. They're using GloFo's DUV process currently, which still operates on a 193nm source, and further they're only using "7nm" on "non-critical layers". It won't be until GloFo starts using their "6nm" that EUV will be utilized (they just started receiving the machines from ASML a few months ago) that proper sub-10nm might started being implemented in earnest by GloFo.
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#3
dj-electric
According to Intel, their 10nm is very similar to the way others do 7nm. I don't see how this will change things. Raja likes visiting many places, he just happened to be mentioning this one.
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#4
biffzinker
PhantomTaco said:
I wouldn't say that AMD has implemented 7nm GPUs. They're using GloFo's DUV process currently, which still operates on a 193nm source, and further they're only using "7nm" on "non-critical layers". It won't be until GloFo starts using their "6nm" that EUV will be utilized (they just started receiving the machines from ASML a few months ago) that proper sub-10nm might started being implemented in earnest by GloFo.
Pretty sure it's TSMC your referring to, GloFo has given up at 12nm.
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#6
Gungar
dj-electric said:
According to Intel, their 10nm is very similar to the way others do 7nm. I don't see how this will change things. Raja likes visiting many places, he just happened to be mentioning this one.
The GPU market has less margin, so they have to use cheaper manufacturers. It completely makes sense.
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#7
TheLostSwede
dj-electric said:
According to Intel, their 10nm is very similar to the way others do 7nm. I don't see how this will change things. Raja likes visiting many places, he just happened to be mentioning this one.
You mean he just took a trip to Korea for some fresh kimchi? Highly unlikely, but sure...

And Intel claims a lot of things, would you believe them if they said Santa was real too?
Also, their 10nm is still not suitable for mass production afaik, unless you're sitting on some inside information. If it was, we'd see it used for many of their CPUs, which we don't at the moment. In fact, the last I read, was that Intel started over from scratch at 10nm, as their current tech is seriously broken.
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#8
dj-electric
TheLostSwede said:
You mean he just took a trip to Korea for some fresh kimchi? Highly unlikely, but sure...

And Intel claims a lot of things, would you believe them if they said Santa was real too?
Also, their 10nm is still not suitable for mass production afaik, unless you're sitting on some inside information. If it was, we'd see it used for many of their CPUs, which we don't at the moment. In fact, the last I read, was that Intel started over from scratch at 10nm, as their current tech is seriously broken.
Wait, Santa is not real? :mad:
What happened with 10nm's plan is the intention to make it X2.7 denser, a mission that failed. The newer, less dense (AFAIK X2.4 density) 10nm process has been in use for about half a year now or close to this. Is it mass-available? no, not yet. Not Intel-mass.

Some Keller dude from Intel told me they have some plans to make extensive use out of it (10nm fabs, there will be 3 eventually), so i assume we haven't heard the last of it. Pinky promise, no crazy inside information.
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#9
mtcn77
It do believe Intel is now a big employee nation sightseeing across the globe.
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#10
notb
TheLostSwede said:
You mean he just took a trip to Korea for some fresh kimchi? Highly unlikely, but sure...

And Intel claims a lot of things, would you believe them if they said Santa was real too?
Also, their 10nm is still not suitable for mass production afaik, unless you're sitting on some inside information. If it was, we'd see it used for many of their CPUs, which we don't at the moment. In fact, the last I read, was that Intel started over from scratch at 10nm, as their current tech is seriously broken.
Thing is though: with Intel you really don't know much. They're not giving many leaks (building hype) or their mainstream products.
We all live believing in whatever we want. And one day Intel will simply make a conference and announce 10nm CPUs out of thin air.
Who have foreseen 9900K? Or MCM Xeons? Did you?

On the other hand, when Ryzen came out in 2017, the only thing we didn't know was the official naming.
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#11
TheLostSwede
notb said:
Thing is though: with Intel you really don't know much. They're not giving many leaks (building hype) or their mainstream products.
We all live believing in whatever we want. And one day Intel will simply make a conference and announce 10nm CPUs out of thin air.
Who have foreseen 9900K? Or MCM Xeons? Did you?

On the other hand, when Ryzen came out in 2017, the only thing we didn't know was the official naming.
Well, you don't know me so...
I have leaked plenty of Intel roadmaps and unannounced products in the past, since I was a tech journalist for well over a decade.
So yes, people do know about upcoming things. The sad fact is that there aren't many tech journalists left and the bloggers don't care about this stuff so...
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#12
kastriot
If intel can make cheap and efficient gpu like I740 was in 1997 then i will be happy to buy it, but i doubt it.
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#13
dj-electric
kastriot said:
If intel can make cheap and efficient gpu like I740 was in 1997 then i will be happy to buy it, but i doubt it.
Its good that the market has totally not changed in the past 22 years and they can totally release a GPU as powerful as an iGPU for 40$.
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#14
notb
TheLostSwede said:
Well, you don't know me so...
I have leaked plenty of Intel roadmaps and unannounced products in the past, since I was a tech journalist for well over a decade.
I don't know why you think this is something to be proud of...
So yes, people do know about upcoming things. The sad fact is that there aren't many tech journalists left and the bloggers don't care about this stuff so...
Of course people know. We're not getting processors from a magic portal - they're being developed for years.

The Ryzen hype was actually so weird that it's hard to imagine it wasn't organized by AMD.
I mean: we've seen some "leaked slides" that were so complicated and polished that's they couldn't have come from an internal meeting. And they still lacked actual names or precise figures - again, something you wouldn't hide from senior management. :-)

Intel doesn't "leak" much. So yeah... you can believe they have nothing to leak. And it could be true. But they've surprised us before.

kastriot said:
If intel can make cheap and efficient gpu like I740 was in 1997 then i will be happy to buy it, but i doubt it.
Why would they? I mean: where's the money in that?

They have to address 2 markets: mobile APUs and datacenters.
Mobile APUs - because Intel has to protect their share in general use and low-end gaming laptops.
Datacenters - because they're trying to build an ecosystem capable of creating all-Intel servers (maybe they want to enter this business - a bit like IBM).

Workstation and gaming cards are somewhere in the middle and can be easily extrapolated from the above. AMD has been doing that for years.
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#15
R0H1T
Ryzen wasn't hyped by AMD though & there were little to no leaks except canard PC. As for Intel not "leaking" - really?
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#16
TheLostSwede
notb said:
I don't know why you think this is something to be proud of...

Of course people know. We're not getting processors from a magic portal - they're being developed for years.

The Ryzen hype was actually so weird that it's hard to imagine it wasn't organized by AMD.
I mean: we've seen some "leaked slides" that were so complicated and polished that's they couldn't have come from an internal meeting. And they still lacked actual names or precise figures - again, something you wouldn't hide from senior management. :)

Intel doesn't "leak" much. So yeah... you can believe they have nothing to leak. And it could be true. But they've surprised us before.
So what you're saying is that you're not interested in getting early information about product then? Fair enough, but there are a lot of other people that are. Maybe you should hang out on some different website/forum as well then?

Dude, I've had an entire year worth of detailed roadmaps from Intel. These things leak, so not, it was most likely not orchestrated by AMD, but feel free to believe whatever you want.
Intel leaks plenty, but most of the leaks are from third parties, i.e. board makers and the distribution channel.

But hey, no point arguing with you, you seem to know best...
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#17
SoNic67
notb said:
Why would they? I mean: where's the money in that?
It's something to say about the lack of understanding of how economics works in most people. They genuinly think that they are owned cheap (or free) stuff. If any big company dares to hint that they are in business to make a profit... oh, gosh, they are pure evil.
All the development for the new and better stuff is not free. It cannot be sustained by close to zero profits.
Posted on Reply
#18
notb
TheLostSwede said:
So what you're saying is that you're not interested in getting early information about product then?
I though we are talking about respecting NDAs, not my interests.
But yeah, I don't care about early information. It has no value for me (why would it?).

So I've admitted something. What about you?
You don't give a rats ass about confidentiality agreements? Or maybe you think it's journalists' "mission" to publish this stuff?
I just don't understand why you're so proud of yourself. Like a 10 year old bragging because he stole a chocolate bar...
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#19
TheLostSwede
notb said:
I though we are talking about respecting NDAs, not my interests.
But yeah, I don't care about early information. It has no value for me (why would it?).

So I've admitted something. What about you?
You don't give a rats ass about confidentiality agreements? Or maybe you think it's journalists' "mission" to publish this stuff?
I just don't understand why you're so proud of yourself. Like a 10 year old bragging because he stole a chocolate bar...
I never signed any NDA's relating to anything I leaked, so I don't feel bad about posting any of it.

Of course it has value, it prevents people buying "old" hardware when something new is coming out soon.

Not bragging, it's historical fact. Not sure what I've done to hurt your feelings so badly, but tbh, I don't really care.
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#20
HD64G
Even if they haven't signed any deal, they'd like to have Samsung as a backup solution to their fab problems for sure...
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#21
R-T-B
notb said:
Who have foreseen 9900K? Or MCM Xeons? Did you?
Were you like, absent in the newsfeed then or something?
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#22
TheGuruStud
translation: 2022 release if true (or it's more tiny die baloney)
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#23
Xzibit
What if he just went there to see if he (Intel) can source memory chips now that Micron and Intel have a falling out over 3D.

Intel: Hey, Micron can you provide Vram for our upcoming GPU

Micron: Sure just pay the higher price

Intel: Eh, Samsung how much for Vram
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#24
R0H1T
dj-electric said:
Wait, Santa is not real? :mad:
What happened with 10nm's plan is the intention to make it X2.7 denser, a mission that failed. The newer, less dense (AFAIK X2.4 density) 10nm process has been in use for about half a year now or close to this. Is it mass-available? no, not yet. Not Intel-mass.

Some Keller dude from Intel told me they have some plans to make extensive use out of it (10nm fabs, there will be 3 eventually), so i assume we haven't heard the last of it. Pinky promise, no crazy inside information.
They are supposed to release some products on that but when, if at all - we'll find out if Intel makes a grand announcement like this GPU thing.
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#25
mtcn77
Xzibit said:
What if he just went there to see if he (Intel) can source memory chips now that Micron and Intel have a falling out over 3D.

Intel: Hey, Micron can you provide Vram for our upcoming GPU

Micron: Sure just pay the higher price

Intel: Eh, Samsung how much for Vram
Intel is at 2nd spot in gross semiconductor revenue whereas Samsung is 1. Intel is also struggling with volume which makes it all the more ironic.
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