Friday, May 17th 2019

AMD to Detail Zen 2, Navi Architectures Come Hot Chips in August

The Hot Chips conference is one of the leading-edge grounds for discussion of new silicon-bound technologies, and AMD will, as usual, take to its grounds in an effort to detail their efforts in their technology fields. The conference's organization has already confirmed a number of participants in its conference schedule, which includes the likes of Intel, Microsoft, Alibaba, NVIDIA, Tesla and of course, AMD.

AMD will be delivering two keynotes: the first, on August 19th, is simply titled "Zen 2", and will therefore deal with the underpinnings of the Zen 2 microarchitecture, which will be pervasive to all of AMD's CPU product lines. A second conference will be held on the same day by AMD's CEO Lisa Su herself, and is titled "Delivering the Future of High-Performance Computing with System, Software and Silicon Co-Optimization". On the next day, August 20th, another AMD keynote is simply titled "7 nm Navi GPU", and we expect it to follow in the footsteps of the Zen 2 conference. So, with AMD diving deep into both architectures come August... it's extremely likely the company will have launched both product lines by then. Fingers crossed. You can find the abstract on AMD's CEO Lisa Su's conference after the break.
From medicine to the frontiers of scientific research, manufacturing and entertainment-the demand for computing and graphics technologies continues growing. While we are entering a golden age of high-performance computing, it is increasingly clear that the techniques the industry has used to reach this point will not deliver similar advances over the coming years. As the gains from Moore's Law have slowed in recent years, the industry has begun to focus on new areas of innovation to maintain the historical pace of performance improvements. AMD CEO Lisa Su will discuss new techniques in system architecture, silicon design and software that will enable future generations of computing and graphics products to deliver more performance with greater efficiency.
Source: Hot Chips
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182 Comments on AMD to Detail Zen 2, Navi Architectures Come Hot Chips in August

#26
R0H1T
jmcslob said:

I'd actually appreciate an August or September launch... It's better for my wallet.
This news piece is purely about the uarch & the Silicon, launch is in Q3 so I guess anytime between July & Sept?
Posted on Reply
#27
notb
theoneandonlymrk said:

which brings point B,, Silence Enthusiasts , a f£$%$£n niche in a niche is not worth a shit.
OK. Let's not call them "silence enthusiasts". Let's call them people who expect desktops to be quiet like they have been for the last few years. Suddenly we're talking about a big part of desktop buyers - both consumer and enterprise.
err unless you know some other version of f%^£$^n physics , yes , yes ,it is going to go that way, smaller and more dense electronic parts make More heat not the same and not less.

so some very advanced and technical shit like micro channel cooling is a possible way to do this but some part of it will need a FAN.
There's a better way as well. Getting rid of the "stylish" plastic garbage and focusing on functionality.

But assuming you're right and PCs start to require tiny fans on multiple small parts (at least: RAM, VRM, chipset, M.2 SSD) than it would mean the whole concept of "custom PCs" is falling apart. Motherboard standard will have to be redesigned. Parts are getting too hot for how we envisioned this decades ago.

OEM PCs won't need a fan on chipset or RAM or VRM. It'll just push more consumers out of the "custom" niche.
AND FINALLY, you saw a picture , thats all, you didnt test it or try it.

YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW LOUD OR NOT THAT FAN IS at all and no idea why it's needed.
I have a clue about how much a silent 40-60mm fan costs. And this one is either cheap or they had to save money elsewhere (which sin't exactly conforming).
Posted on Reply
#28
moproblems99
notb said:

A fan is just a low cost solution for something that should be better engineered.
Basically, a lot of silence enthusiasts have just said "no" to this platform - even if they were initially lured by Zen2's efficiency.

And we'll see PCIe4.0 motherboards without a chipset fan in few months.

~50mm. Tiny.
Longevity is not a problem. Noise is.

You think this is OK? So you'll also be fine with DDR5 fans? Next-gen NVMe SSD fans? Where is this going?

Assuming a 7nm chipset would have solved this, then yes - it's definitely AMD's fault. But putting that aside, it's all on mobo makers. They should have provided a more clever way than a fan (which is likely the cheapest solution).

Also, for the PCIe 4.0 being so fast it needs cooling: I call b..shit.
Lately chipsets didn't even need a big heatsink - most motherboards have fairly flat, simple radiators.
I can't believe moving to PCIe 4.0 adds so much heat that they couldn't do it with a better passive solution.
Good things these chips will run X470, B450, and likely X370 others. No fans needed there. PCIE 3.0 will be just fine for those who like silence.

notb said:

OK. Let's not call them "silence enthusiasts". Let's call them people who expect desktops to be quiet like they have been for the last few years. Suddenly we're talking about a big part of desktop buyers - both consumer and enterprise.
Also, what makes you think these will be batshit loud?
Posted on Reply
#29
Dammeron
And to think it was ATi with their cool Xpress3200/SB600 north/south bridge duo, that saved us from nV's overheating nForce 4 on s939 platform (still remember all those charred PCBs under small radiators). Now they create little heating devices that actually need a fan to be able to work properly.
Posted on Reply
#30
moproblems99
R0H1T said:

This news piece is purely about the uarch & the Silicon, launch is in Q3 so I guess anytime between July & Sept?
Also depends if they are talking fiscal Q3 or calendar Q3. Not the same.

Edit: Since fiscal q3 is almost up, guess that narrows it down lol
Posted on Reply
#31
HwGeek
Maybe this fun won't works most of the time? If it's there only to prevent overheat it's OK for me, most of users already gonna have GPU's the will blow air on it, only the the ones with WB on GPU or bad airflow the fan will active?
Posted on Reply
#32
Fouquin
Ferrum Master said:

X58 chipset ran without fan runs to 85C, 24W

Noone gives a F*.

Now again whining? Get a life peps... it is nothing THAT BAD.

Proof.


Correct, with the exception of EVGA's X58 SLI. The X58 IOH chipset coolers on most boards blocked the top expansion slot. That position allowed the coolers to stand much taller than if they were to the right of the PCI-E, as the latter would then block installation of longer add in cards such as a GPU. Also just typing the search term "X58 IOH" brings up a dozen results of users complaining about chipset temperatures on X58, and judging by the extremely overbuilt solutions from some vendors (including bolt-on upgrades in some cases) I would say the thermal situation was anything but good.
Posted on Reply
#33
theoneandonlymrk
notb said:

OK. Let's not call them "silence enthusiasts". Let's call them people who expect desktops to be quiet like they have been for the last few years. Suddenly we're talking about a big part of desktop buyers - both consumer and enterprise.

There's a better way as well. Getting rid of the "stylish" plastic garbage and focusing on functionality.

But assuming you're right and PCs start to require tiny fans on multiple small parts (at least: RAM, VRM, chipset, M.2 SSD) than it would mean the whole concept of "custom PCs" is falling apart. Motherboard standard will have to be redesigned. Parts are getting too hot for how we envisioned this decades ago.

OEM PCs won't need a fan on chipset or RAM or VRM. It'll just push more consumers out of the "custom" niche.

I have a clue about how much a silent 40-60mm fan costs. And this one is either cheap or they had to save money elsewhere (which sin't exactly conforming).
1 Yes because thats going to be the biggest fan in that silent system now is'nt it, mind blown by your knowledge, you know this how?

2 your better way"Getting rid of the "stylish" plastic garbage and focusing on functionality." IS WISHY WASHY TOTAL BALLS, try again most boards have a simple heatsink there ,no more.

3 "the whole concept of "custom PCs" is falling apart." It is, the time is fast approaching when we cannot afford the parts we would need and will have to rent the tech, 10-20 year's.

4 "OEM PCs won't need a fan on chipset" Oem pc's are not custom, there spec is set the Nvme drives and all attached hardware will be specc'd to accomodate their build, A custom PC Could have 4x NVME at 6GB/sec each plus technically 3-4 pciex full of 4xnvme drives as a worse case , they don't want their parts to fail prematurely.

5 you Have no clue and are now lieing, no one here knows how loud that fan is at all.

6 Bye
Posted on Reply
#34
Ferrum Master
Fouquin said:

Correct, with the exception of EVGA's X58 SLI. The X58 IOH chipset coolers on most boards blocked the top expansion slot. That position allowed the coolers to stand much taller than if they were to the right of the PCI-E, as the latter would then block installation of longer add in cards such as a GPU. Also just typing the search term "X58 IOH" brings up a dozen results of users complaining about chipset temperatures on X58, and judging by the extremely overbuilt solutions from some vendors (including bolt-on upgrades in some cases) I would say it wasn't good.
These large 60-70mm fans look like a mature solution to me... the basic idea... we've seen worst, eating twice the power.
Posted on Reply
#35
NdMk2o1o
Please dont feed the regular anti-amd trolls doing what they do best, the thread was not about 2 pictures of MSI boards that may or may not be correct and was indeed about AMD detailing Navi and Zen2 at Hot Chips. Seriously it doesn't matter how good AMD does they will still be here nit picking at everything they can imagine with their intel blinkers on thinking they are superior to everyone else. Honestly the mods should crack down on it cause it's regular posters in the same threads saying the same things week in and week out with the sole purpose of flame baiting people into arguments. I did think about quoting and replying but then I realised I would enjoy sticking needles in my eyes than trying to argue with the clueless. Now I don't see any of it unless I click the "show ignored content" I call it the unhide BS button. Blissful! :nutkick::clap:
Posted on Reply
#36
notb
theoneandonlymrk said:

1 Yes because thats going to be the biggest fan in that silent system now is'nt it, mind blown by your knowledge, you know this how?
Small fans tend to spin faster and generate more noise than big ones. How can you not know this?
If this chipset really can't be cooled passively, i.e. it pulls 30W+, this 50mm fan will have to spin at 2000-3000 rpm.
4 "OEM PCs won't need a fan on chipset" Oem pc's are not custom, there spec is set the Nvme drives and all attached hardware will be specc'd to accomodate their build, A custom PC Could have 4x NVME at 6GB/sec each plus technically 3-4 pciex full of 4xnvme drives as a worse case , they don't want their parts to fail prematurely.
OEM PCs have properly designed cooling solutions with guided airflow. Custom PCs don't - they have expensive AiOs and gigantic aircoolers to compensate.
And now they'll also have tiny chipset fans, because motherboard designers simply can't assume you'll have enough airflow in the case.
They have to prepare for the worst case scenario which is: an AiO with radiator mounted to the case ceiling and poor intake fans in the front. The funny thing about chipset is: it may be under heavy load when CPU isn't, so AiO will run at minimal speed.
Ferrum Master said:

These large 60-70mm fans look like a mature solution to me... the basic idea... we've seen worst, eating twice the power.
50-55mm. It's not that hard to measure.

NdMk2o1o said:

Please dont feed the regular anti-amd trolls doing what they do best, the thread was not about 2 pictures of MSI boards that may or may not be correct and was indeed about AMD detailing Navi and Zen2 at Hot Chips
You don't seem very interested in the launch as well. Why don't you write a comment about it instead of mocking people? :-)
Posted on Reply
#37
Ferrum Master
notb said:

Small fans tend to spin faster and generate more noise than big ones. How can you not know this?
You are so wrong with that... it is just exactly as you order them be.
Posted on Reply
#38
jabbadap
notb said:

A tiny fan on the chipset. That's just sad.

Also, how is this possible on Zen in particular? For 2 years I've been hearing how Zen being a SoC is so great because the chipset has hardly any function (hence it's cheap and so on).
What happened between X470 and X570 that they suddenly need a fan? PCIe4.0 controller?

A ~40mm slim fan - perfect addition to your cool and quiet - power efficient - Zen2 system.
Isn't x570 supposed to be in-house amd chipset, rather than asmedia made before that (all other AM4 chipsets). Not that it have anything to do with the matter, but it sure takes more power than it asmedia made predecessor.
Posted on Reply
#39
krykry
Speaking of which, I forgot all about it, but buildzoid did say that the chipset gets hot only at very specific conditions (I'm assuming 100% load). It's in this vid.

Posted on Reply
#40
Papahyooie
So they give you a high performance chipset, and people are mad about fans?? Since when were computer enthusiasts mad about fans?? Since when is computers requiring fans bad engineering?

If you're into extreme low noise, pull the stock heat sync off and put a beefier one on that can be cooled by your case fans, jeez.

Buncha trolls.
Posted on Reply
#41
The Lighthouse
I really do not like fans on motherboard.

Either grabbing existing X470 board or B550 may be wiser choice for those who are concerned with fan noise.
Posted on Reply
#42
nemesis.ie
@notb

In my collection I have 135mm supposedly quiet fans that are noisy (and have a grinding noise from new) and 60mm ceramic bearing fans that are virtually silent.

Lets wait for reviews before casting around wild allegations.

@The Lighthouse

Another thing to consider is that likely the chipset will only pull a lot of power when doing stuff, if one has a PCIe4 M.2 doing e.g. 6GB/s on the CPU M.2 slot, will most folks need another one or two on the chipset? (Which will max out at the same PCIe4 x4 total bandwidth anyway).

Either way, this will still be more storage speed than the competitor can provide at the moment or are their PCIe4 boards also going to be launched soon?
Posted on Reply
#43
IceScreamer
I wonder if it could have been done by heatpiping the cooler or having a more conventional heatsink with fins, not just the aluminum chunk that it is now. Would probably not go down well with the "gamer" aesthetic.
I mean they probably did what they needed to do in order to keep the noise minimal. I take it TPU review will give their experience on the noise while testing.
Posted on Reply
#44
efikkan
IceScreamer said:

I wonder if it could have been done by heatpiping the cooler or having a more conventional heatsink with fins, not just the aluminum chunk that it is now. Would probably not go down well with the "gamer" aesthetic.
There is no reason to wonder, this has been done successfully for decades, you can still see it on server motherboards and some workstation motherboards.
Unfortunately most "mainstream" motherboards these days are geared towards teenagers, with fancy RGB LEDs and "heat sinks" covered in plastic or no real fins, despite most buyers being grownups who don't care how it looks, but definitely cares about reliability, noise, etc.
-----
I assume the extra heat of the chipset was not intentional, but doing a respin would cause too much delay.
Posted on Reply
#45
The Lighthouse
nemesis.ie said:


Another thing to consider is that likely the chipset will only pull a lot of power when doing stuff, if one has a PCIe4 M.2 doing e.g. 6GB/s on the CPU M.2 slot, will most folks need another one or two on the chipset? (Which will max out at the same PCIe4 x4 total bandwidth anyway).

Either way, this will still be more storage speed than the competitor can provide at the moment or are their PCIe4 boards also going to be launched soon?
Yes now to think about it, the fan does not have to turn on all the time.

I hope the fan won't turn on if I don't use any of these silly M.2 SSDs (they are so expensive to begin with). My current PC only has SATA SSDs and I tend to keep them in a way.
Posted on Reply
#46
dicktracy
Need more info about Threadripper 3! They should make it like Intel's x599 but at typical AMD price points.
Posted on Reply
#47
notb
nemesis.ie said:

@notb

In my collection I have 135mm supposedly quiet fans that are noisy (and have a grinding noise from new) and 60mm ceramic bearing fans that are virtually silent.

Lets wait for reviews before casting around wild allegations.
It's not a wild allegation. Small and cheap fan on a 30W chip is not something we don't see everywhere around us. It's called Intel stock cooler.

Yes, this tiny fan could be silent if it had cost $10.
Either way, this will still be more storage speed than the competitor can provide at the moment or are their PCIe4 boards also going to be launched soon?
Yeah, but what's the point? It's a consumer platform. Hardly anyone will use the PCIe 4.0 potential X570 is rumored to provide. But everyone will have a small fan like in the 90s.
This is the same argument as always. You can mock "the competitor" on losing in benchmarks and specs, but they make a mature, purpose-built ecosystem. They deliver in friendliness and practicality.
One can make any PC more faster by adding fans, hence allowing a larger power draw. It doesn't mean it's always a good idea.

If one has loud components or doesn't care, a 50mm chipset fan won't make a difference - I totally agree.

But look around you on all these people spending hundreds of USD on fanless PSUs, better GPU coolers and premium case fans. All that becomes obsolete. They'll now have a 50mm high rpm fan. It'll be the loudest part in their PCs.
And if it turns out the fan is spinning slowly, hence silent, it'll mean it wasn't necessary in the first place.
Posted on Reply
#49
RH92
oxidized said:

Hey you forgot it's AMD, there's no way they're doing anything wrong, it's not like we're talking about intel here.
/sarcasm
How do you know AMD is doing something wrong here bro , simply by looking at a bunch of pics ? Cut this nonsense off please you are embarasing yourself !
Posted on Reply
#50
theoneandonlymrk
notb said:

It's not a wild allegation. Small and cheap fan on a 30W chip is not something we don't see everywhere around us. It's called Intel stock cooler.

Yes, this tiny fan could be silent if it had cost $10.

Yeah, but what's the point? It's a consumer platform. Hardly anyone will use the PCIe 4.0 potential X570 is rumored to provide. But everyone will have a small fan like in the 90s.
This is the same argument as always. You can mock "the competitor" on losing in benchmarks and specs, but they make a mature, purpose-built ecosystem. They deliver in friendliness and practicality.
One can make any PC more faster by adding fans, hence allowing a larger power draw. It doesn't mean it's always a good idea.

If one has loud components or doesn't care, a 50mm chipset fan won't make a difference - I totally agree.

But look around you on all these people spending hundreds of USD on fanless PSUs, better GPU coolers and premium case fans. All that becomes obsolete. They'll now have a 50mm high rpm fan. It'll be the loudest part in their PCs.
And if it turns out the fan is spinning slowly, hence silent, it'll mean it wasn't necessary in the first place.
Keep banging the bull drum budy , someone might be convinced.

Talk about Drama , it's now the loudest fan in a pc, if they're going to that quite extreme ,a bit more effort would be nothing.

As for your efforts to dramatise this topic taking on all comers ,seams a bit shill, your definitely a hater.

Doesn't intels latest hedt feature fans on the Vrms , dya think that's noisey.
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