Friday, May 17th 2019

AMD to Detail Zen 2, Navi Architectures Come Hot Chips in August

The Hot Chips conference is one of the leading-edge grounds for discussion of new silicon-bound technologies, and AMD will, as usual, take to its grounds in an effort to detail their efforts in their technology fields. The conference's organization has already confirmed a number of participants in its conference schedule, which includes the likes of Intel, Microsoft, Alibaba, NVIDIA, Tesla and of course, AMD.

AMD will be delivering two keynotes: the first, on August 19th, is simply titled "Zen 2", and will therefore deal with the underpinnings of the Zen 2 microarchitecture, which will be pervasive to all of AMD's CPU product lines. A second conference will be held on the same day by AMD's CEO Lisa Su herself, and is titled "Delivering the Future of High-Performance Computing with System, Software and Silicon Co-Optimization". On the next day, August 20th, another AMD keynote is simply titled "7 nm Navi GPU", and we expect it to follow in the footsteps of the Zen 2 conference. So, with AMD diving deep into both architectures come August... it's extremely likely the company will have launched both product lines by then. Fingers crossed. You can find the abstract on AMD's CEO Lisa Su's conference after the break.
From medicine to the frontiers of scientific research, manufacturing and entertainment-the demand for computing and graphics technologies continues growing. While we are entering a golden age of high-performance computing, it is increasingly clear that the techniques the industry has used to reach this point will not deliver similar advances over the coming years. As the gains from Moore's Law have slowed in recent years, the industry has begun to focus on new areas of innovation to maintain the historical pace of performance improvements. AMD CEO Lisa Su will discuss new techniques in system architecture, silicon design and software that will enable future generations of computing and graphics products to deliver more performance with greater efficiency.
Source: Hot Chips
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182 Comments on AMD to Detail Zen 2, Navi Architectures Come Hot Chips in August

#51
TheGuruStud
oxidized, post: 4049182, member: 170038"
Hey you forgot it's AMD, there's no way they're doing anything wrong, it's not like we're talking about intel here.
/sarcasm
That was a factual statement. No /S required.
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#52
TheLostSwede
jabbadap, post: 4049269, member: 148195"
Isn't x570 supposed to be in-house amd chipset, rather than asmedia made before that (all other AM4 chipsets). Not that it have anything to do with the matter, but it sure takes more power than it asmedia made predecessor.
Now now children, no need to fight.

That's the rumour, but apparently there's another that Asmedia still makes it for AMD. This means the chipset is still 40-32nm. No, it's not 14nm as some here seems to think and most definitely not 7nm. Chipsets are usually always on a much older node than CPUs.

The fan is mostly intended to kick in when NVMe RAID is used, as it makes the chipset go supernova.

There will be fanless boards, but expect to pay a premium for them.
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#53
Manu_PT
For all the amd fans here ignoring this Fan thing. This is an AM3+ 990FX motherboard with a 20w TDP. It didn´t use a fan. Something is fishy here, wether you like it or not. I have enough years on hardware to know it.

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#54
oxidized
NdMk2o1o, post: 4049214, member: 83825"
So AMD fail if fan, and fail if a heatsink :slap: :clap: you have no interest in anything AMD and have just come to the thread to troll, so what does it matter.
Oh but i am interested, since i'm no fanboy unlike many in here, i don't care if it's intel or amd, or nvidia or arm or whoever you want, i'm just interested in performance, reliability and quality, rest is just blabbering for fanboys.
I was planning on upgrading to ryzen 3000 for a while now, this surely doesn't encourage me more with the upgrade, and the reasons you can find pretty much in this thread, and i've already expressed some too, even if in a rather provocative way...
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#55
Darmok N Jalad
We’ve made it to page three and almost this whole thread is about fans. Maybe the mods just need to change the OP. :D
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#56
altcapwn
The fan on the chipset makes me remember my p5n-d sli setup with the fan on the northbridge, or my sabertooth z77 with the fan behind the shield.

It's a sign of my destiny...

I personally don't care about the fan.
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#57
s3thra
The thought of upgrading my Ryzen 2600 and RX 580 later this year is exciting.

After building my 3570K years ago, and then every generation having to justify to myself why a complete motherboard (and memory) overhaul would be worth it, and then to have second thoughts, and then to put it off again, and then think "next generation will be worth it", and then go through the same dilemma next time around, over, and over, and over again - it's nice to be back on AMD.
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#58
Metroid
Lorec, post: 4049085, member: 183267"
omigosh that x570 gaming plus is sooo sexy :love:
After all the bullshit MSI tried to pull with ryzen 3000 series, MSI --> no way. MSI is usually the last well known motherboard vendor I think when I buy motherboards. Asrock, Asus, Gigabyte and then MSI.

Manu_PT, post: 4049367, member: 168799"
For all the amd fans here ignoring this Fan thing. This is an AM3+ 990FX motherboard with a 20w TDP. It didn´t use a fan. Something is fishy here, wether you like it or not. I have enough years on hardware to know it.
I'm not going to buy any motherboard with a fan and I think as far as I can remember, I never bought a motherboard with a fan, heat-sink is the way to go. They tried to add a fan on a monitor, bad idea too. Fans is only good for gpus, cpus and the sort. I remember they tried to normalize fans to memory too, pure bullshit, nobody went along with it.
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#59
ypsylon
Fans, fans, fans. Problem with PCH 'radiators' is that those aren't radiators at all. Often it is just square slab of aluminium which has basically no thermal conductivity. Even worse, many have PCB inserts with LEDs which acts as an additional insulator and adds extra heat when lighting is on.

For radiator to be A Radiator it must have fins, and tons of it. Of course you can't put RGB on fins. :peace:

Take for example Zenith Extreme PCH (v1 not the Alpha). There is thin (~7mm) piece of aluminium on PCH. It comes in two parts. When you unscrew the top cover (which is about 3mm) you're left with remaining 4. Underneath the shroud is M.2 port. Now any NVMe drive plugged there will be cooking itself to death (I know I'm using it) because pocket in the shroud traps hot air and not transfers it away - no fins on top. So after a while, removed the top shroud, unpluged the RGB piece of PCB and now running M.2 drive with beefy heatsink, but for PCH there is absolutely no difference in temperature with or without top shroud. On warm day 65C no problem. Especially when I trash the system like doing sculpting in ZBrush, there is plenty of I/O access with PCH.

I say bollocks to such design of workstation class products.
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#60
Vayra86
What the hell. I enter an AMD Zen 2 topic and I read two pages of whine about a god damn fan. On a board that you can or cannot buy and is entirely unrelated otherwise. If it can be engineered differently, then for sure it will happen. You've seen two MSI boards of which one is the Carbon, which is known to be a bang/buck board that excels on features/price.

Besides, most PCH fans I know run on pretty low RPM and mostly serve to pull or push heat out from under that heatsink and into the general case airflow.

Get a life, please.
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#61
efikkan
Why does so many become defensive when someone raises a valid concern about the presented motherboards? It doesn't mean the platform as a whole is bad, and there is no reason to take it personally. I assume there will be some motherboards without a chipset fan, and if there are too few of these, it's important to raise concerns so that motherboard makers get the point.

Whenever I build systems, I expect them to last a good five years of daily use, even if it's not my primary system. That means I choose quality parts, and bad cooling solutions is one of the things I stay away from. With a chipset fan I would be worried about the long-term reliability and noise, and usually you can't replace them either.

Also, one final note. The motherboards displayed currently, and even some of the ones to be shown at Computex may still be prototypes, so there can be small deviations in production versions. Still, I do hope reporters at Computex provide feedback to the motherboard makers.
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#62
Vayra86
efikkan, post: 4049460, member: 150226"
Why does so many become defensive when someone raises a valid concern about the presented motherboards? It doesn't mean the platform as a whole is bad, and there is no reason to take it personally. I assume there will be some motherboards without a chipset fan, and if there are too few of these, it's important to raise concerns so that motherboard makers get the point.

Whenever I build systems, I expect them to last a good five years of daily use, even if it's not my primary system. That means I choose quality parts, and bad cooling solutions is one of the things I stay away from. With a chipset fan I would be worried about the long-term reliability and noise, and usually you can't replace them either.

Also, one final note. The motherboards displayed currently, and even some of the ones to be shown at Computex may still be prototypes, so there can be small deviations in production versions. Still, I do hope reporters at Computex provide feedback to the motherboard makers.
Its just offtopic here. This topic is not about m/b design... right now people are left with the impression that all these boards will have crappy, noisy fans and thus its a hot chipset and boy that cannot be right, so Zen must be shit. We're now several pages in still going on about this. Why?
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#63
R0H1T
That's all fine, however have you seen any of these boards in action ~ the CPU or other boards? How do you figure this is even a valid concern without checking the boards out first? The crappy VRM or heatsink is a perennial problem since eons & will likely not go away anytime soon.
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#64
efikkan
Vayra86, post: 4049463, member: 152404"
Its just offtopic here. This topic is not about m/b design...
Respectfully, that's your opinion.
If motherboards and chipset launched together with a CPU is not part of the discussion of a platform then I don't know what is. Most people do after all select a motherboard to go with their new CPU.
Edit: One example, at the launch of Skylake-X, many threads complained about VRM cooling, and partially rightfully so, as some motherboards did have poor cooling, but certainly not all.
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#65
JB_Gamer
Hopefully it's semi-passive, only spinning if temperature gets too high (if PCIE 4.0 is in use).
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#66
notb
Vayra86, post: 4049463, member: 152404"
Its just offtopic here. This topic is not about m/b design... right now people are left with the impression that all these boards will have crappy, noisy fans and thus its a hot chipset and boy that cannot be right, so Zen must be shit. We're now several pages in still going on about this. Why?
But the people that mock the offtopic haven't really tried to discuss Zen2. So maybe no one is interested in Zen anymore? Maybe our fan fun gave this topic a life?

And yes, chipset is part of the Zen2 platform. If Zen2 forces fans on chipsets in any way (could be technical, could be simply not giving mobo makers enough time), then we are entitled to discuss this in "Zen2 architecture" topic.
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#67
Manu_PT
People saying a 55cm fan will spin at low RPM shouldn´t even visit hardware websites. Seriously, read different websites, because tech and hardware isn´t clearly your thing.

Anyway, I shouldn´t be explaining this but.... if you have a 55cm fan at low RPM, it is the same as not having one. Think about it, please.

What I see is that haters bash intel and nvidia articles with the most silly critics. But if there´s something fishy or not as good with AMD then the gang attacks and defends it to death. IMAGINE if Z390 motherboards had fans, just IMAGINE the drama on the internet if people would tell you that only high end and more expensive z390 motherboards wouldn´t have a fan.
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#68
EarthDog
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4049344, member: 82332"
Doesn't intels latest hedt feature fans on the Vrms , dya think that's noisey.
?

This varies by board partner, not an "intel" thing that can be painted with a broad stroke.

That said, I believe there is at least one with a fan on the vrm in the flagship Rampage VI Extreme Omega. When using a 7960x at 4.3 ghz all c/t those fans spin up in a gaming session, indeed, however I cannot hear them over 3x 120mm yate loons at 850 rpm (nearly silent).

That's a different story if I am long term stress testing as they ramp up faster when the CPU is pulling 500W+. That doesnt happen at stock stress testing, note.

Maybe there is another x299 board with fans that are louder than this one. But when they kick in for normal use on this board, they are inaudible on low.
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#69
Vayra86
notb, post: 4049473, member: 165619"
But the people that mock the offtopic haven't really tried to discuss Zen2. So maybe no one is interested in Zen anymore? Maybe our fan fun gave this topic a life?

And yes, chipset is part of the Zen2 platform. If Zen2 forces fans on chipsets in any way (could be technical, could be simply not giving mobo makers enough time), then we are entitled to discuss this in "Zen2 architecture" topic.
So pull the topic in that direction instead. Is it forced or not? We've already seen that is not necessarily the case as higher TDP chipsets were not actively cooled in the past. So, we're actually already past that... Also no sources have been provided that AMD told anyone its required for whatever spec or feature.

I remember the tiny fan discussion on other boards as well, even as recent as Gigabyte's Gaming 7. Yet in all those topics nobody ever came to anything of substance and in practice, this type of fan is rarely, if ever, audible in a system under load. It gets drowned out by everything else, even in silent rigs. On the Gaming 7, the fan would only be active at very high VRM temps.

Manu_PT, post: 4049487, member: 168799"
People saying a 55cm fan will spin at low RPM shouldn´t even visit hardware websites. Seriously, read different websites, because tech and hardware isn´t clearly your thing.

Anyway, I shouldn´t be explaining this but.... if you have a 55cm fan at low RPM, it is the same as not having one. Think about it, please.

What I see is that haters bash intel and nvidia articles with the most silly critics. But if there´s something fishy or not as good with AMD then the gang attacks and defends it to death. IMAGINE if Z390 motherboards had fans, just IMAGINE the drama on the internet if people would tell you that only high end and more expensive z390 motherboards wouldn´t have a fan.
"Haters?" *sigh*

Once you've got data that shows us these tiny fans are the major source of noise coming from any system in a test, let me know. Until then you can keep your criticism to yourself. As for that perceived difference in approach towards anything either AMD or Intel... that just depends what color of glasses you choose to wear. In both cases its usually not quite so valid or extreme as people say it is. This fan is a great example, and the Z390 chipset as a whole is another good one; yes, lots of people complained and still complain about Intel's regular chipset upgrade strategy.

Its almost as if both camps have their pros and cons. Gosh.
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#70
Xuper
Manu_PT, post: 4049487, member: 168799"
People saying a 55cm fan will spin at low RPM shouldn´t even visit hardware websites. Seriously, read different websites, because tech and hardware isn´t clearly your thing.

Anyway, I shouldn´t be explaining this but.... if you have a 55cm fan at low RPM, it is the same as not having one. Think about it, please.

What I see is that haters bash intel and nvidia articles with the most silly critics. But if there´s something fishy or not as good with AMD then the gang attacks and defends it to death. IMAGINE if Z390 motherboards had fans, just IMAGINE the drama on the internet if people would tell you that only high end and more expensive z390 motherboards wouldn´t have a fan.
Cut the crap your post , You're the one who started this drama.

Manu_PT, post: 4049083, member: 168799"
Every x570 mobo with fans?? Are we back to 2007? Cmon LoL
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#71
TheLostSwede
Vayra86, post: 4049501, member: 152404"
We've already seen that is not necessarily the case as higher TDP chipsets were not actively cooled in the past. So, we're actually already past that... Also no sources have been provided that AMD told anyone its required for whatever spec or feature.
You know the TDP of X570?

As I've tried to point out earlier in this thread, the chipset gets really hot when NVMe is used in RAID, hence the "need" for fans.

Xuper, post: 4049504, member: 83814"
Cut the crap your post , You're the one who started this drama.
Just ignore him, he can't even tell the difference between mm and cm and someone that ignorant is't worth seeing in the forums.
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#72
NdMk2o1o
oxidized, post: 4049369, member: 170038"
Oh but i am interested, since i'm no fanboy unlike many in here, i don't care if it's intel or amd, or nvidia or arm or whoever you want, i'm just interested in performance, reliability and quality, rest is just blabbering for fanboys.
I was planning on upgrading to ryzen 3000 for a while now, this surely doesn't encourage me more with the upgrade, and the reasons you can find pretty much in this thread, and i've already expressed some too, even if in a rather provocative way...
Yea course you were with your amd never does anything wrong s/ comment, I believe you....
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#73
Manu_PT
Xuper, post: 4049504, member: 83814"
Cut the crap your post , You're the one who started this drama.
Because the 4 motherboards I seen so far all had the 2005 Fan. Simple as that. It is a meme on the internet at this point. Visit overclock net, hardforum, anandtech, etc. You will see the exact same complains.

TheLostSwede, post: 4049508, member: 3382"
You know the TDP of X570?

As I've tried to point out earlier in this thread, the chipset gets really hot when NVMe is used in RAID, hence the "need" for fans.



Just ignore him, he can't even tell the difference between mm and cm and someone that ignorant is't worth seeing in the forums.
15W
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#74
NdMk2o1o
TheLostSwede, post: 4049508, member: 3382"
You know the TDP of X570?

As I've tried to point out earlier in this thread, the chipset gets really hot when NVMe is used in RAID, hence the "need" for fans.



Just ignore him, he can't even tell the difference between mm and cm and someone that ignorant is't worth seeing in the forums.
This +1 Another wind up merchant on my ignore list.
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#75
notb
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4049344, member: 82332"
Talk about Drama , it's now the loudest fan in a pc, if they're going to that quite extreme ,a bit more effort would be nothing.
Yes, the small high rpm fans tend to be louder than larger low rpm ones. How can you not know this?
Doesn't intels latest hedt feature fans on the Vrms , dya think that's noisey.
I have no idea. And I can't say I care very much about Intel HEDT). If you have a lot of money and you spend it on a PC, it's your choice (conscious, I hope).
I've mentioned earlier that a chipset fan is something that shouldn't happen in consumer PCs, i.e. be forced on buyers who don't care about benchmarks.

If similar fans will appear on lower AM4 chipsets, it'll make this platform even less interesting in the mass market.
And if they don't (despite PCIe4.0 support), it'll mean it wasn't the controller but X570 design/tuning after all. :)
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