Friday, July 2nd 2021

Intel Books Two 3 nm Processor Orders at TSMC Manufacturing Facilities

Intel's struggles with semiconductor manufacturing have been known for a very long time. Starting from its 10 nm design IP to the latest 7 nm delays, we have seen the company struggle to deliver its semiconductor nodes on time. On the other hand, Intel's competing companies are using 3rd party foundries to manufacture their designs and not worry about the yields of semiconductor nodes. Most of the time, that 3rd party company is Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC). Today, thanks to some reporting from Nikkei Asia, we are learning that Intel is tapping TSMC's capacities to manufacture some of the company's future processors.

Citing sources familiar with the matter, Nikkei notes that: "Intel, America's biggest chipmaker, is working with TSMC on at least two 3-nm projects to design central processing units for notebooks and data center servers in an attempt to regain market share it has lost to Advanced Micro Devices and Nvidia over the past few years. Mass production of these chips is expected to begin by the end of 2022 at the earliest." This means that we could expect to see some of the TSMC manufactured Intel processors by the year 2023/2024.
Source: Nikkei Asia
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82 Comments on Intel Books Two 3 nm Processor Orders at TSMC Manufacturing Facilities

#1
mtcn77
Great, no more gpus in 3nm.
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#3
HD64G
So, TSMC is much better in manufacturing chips than Intel. Many of us told so for 3 years now and Intel fanboys tried to battle that opinion. Point is, from 2023 and on the only difference between AMD and Intel will be the arch. Interesting times.
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#4
Operandi
Intel said they won't and that they are doubling down on their fabs but I wonder how long they can keep this up and how long till they spin them off because until they do TSCMC (or even Samsung for that mater) will always treat them as 2nd teir customer and semi competitor.
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#5
z1n0x
I highly doubt TSMC would built CPUs for Intel on its cutting edge node. This seems like BS to me.
Could it be something for the subsidiary companies?
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#7
lynx29
I'll never buy Intel again, not after @R-T-B revealed the hidden microprocessor telemetry crap on them. LOL

AMD to the moon boys!
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#8
TheinsanegamerN
That many fewer substrates for AMD once they get for 3nm
lynx29I'll never buy Intel again, not after @R-T-B revealed the hidden microprocessor telemetry crap on them. LOL

AMD to the moon boys!
Can you be more specific? If you are referring to the intel management engine crap, AMD's PSP is no better.
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#9
lynx29
TheinsanegamerNThat many fewer substrates for AMD once they get for 3nm

Can you be more specific? If you are referring to the intel management engine crap, AMD's PSP is no better.
never heard of psp, RIP company overreach and freedom LOL
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#10
zlobby
Yerp, there go perfectly good wafers.
lynx29never heard of psp, RIP company overreach and freedom LOL
Sadly, AMD too have something akin to this, and it's really called PSP. It also had a few serious vulnerabilities discovered, so things aren't much brighter there. :(
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#11
TheoneandonlyMrK
No drammmaaaa, said like it is, new low power chip's for ultra portables to compete with arm device's and some server(high value) parts likely to build into their server chips.
I'm more interested in the connotations this lead's to, EMIB @ tsmc, could they licence it to others and wtaf, where's the GPUS then?!.
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#12
lynx29
zlobbyYerp, there go perfectly good wafers.


Sadly, AMD too have something akin to this, and it's really called PSP. It also had a few serious vulnerabilities discovered, so things aren't much brighter there. :(
I guess next time I take a piss I'll just start opening my front door and let AMD and Intel and M$ and Google have all the telemetry data they want on my flow rate!!! They want all the info they can have it boys!!! YEEEHAAAA
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#13
z1n0x
PatriotIt is not new news... Intel is making i3s on TSMC 5nm and 3nm after, small chips, they are already customers for their fpgas among other things.
Small chips like i3's, plus stuff like Altera and Mobileye. I doubt they would build them Xeons or i9/i7. Apple and AMD won't be amused.
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#14
RH92
Apparently they have secured even higher capacity than Apple . This is huge news and could be a real obstacle to AMD execution plan . Personally im not surprised at all , on business point of view it makes perfect sense since it gives them back the process advantage and ties the competitions hands at the same time , i only wonder why didn't they do that sooner . That being said speaking as a consumer that doesn't look good for the long term , i guess we will have to wait and see the real implications of this arrangement .
HD64GPoint is, from 2023 and on the only difference between AMD and Intel will be the arch. Interesting times.
Actually that is far from being the most important implication of these news. Intel have the financial means to secure tons more capacity than AMD which has the potential to seriously limit AMDs capability to execute roadmap . If Intel plays their hand correctly they can force AMD to always remain on the inferior node in order to be capable of securing enough capacity .
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#15
mtcn77
This is ironic because Intel was supposed to compete with its superior EMIB versus TSMC's CoWoS packaging.
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#16
z1n0x
So, TSMC will screw its long time partners for Intel, this continue to seems to me like BS story.
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#17
chris.london
RH92Apparently they have secured even higher capacity than Apple . This is huge news and could be a real obstacle to AMD execution plan . Personally im not surprised at all , on business point of view it makes perfect sense since it gives them back the process advantage and ties the competitions hands at the same time , i only wonder why didn't they do that sooner . That being said speaking as a consumer that doesn't look good for the long term , i guess we will have to wait and see the real implications of this arrangement .



Actually that is far from being the most important implication of these news. Intel have the financial means to secure tons more capacity than AMD which has the potential to seriously limit AMDs capability to execute roadmap . If Intel plays their hand correctly they can force AMD to always remain on the inferior node in order to be capable of securing enough capacity .
Apple has much-much deeper pockets than Intel. I would be surprised if Apple let Intel outbid them, so at least parts of this story are definitely fake.

Edit: the only way Intel secured more 3nm capacity, if Apple let them. And that would have only happened if the initial 3nm capacity was so low that booking all of it wouldn’t have been enough for any of Apple’s SoCs (or AMD’s chiplets). There is a good chance this whole story has been blown out of proportion: Intel booked most of the initial runs, but quantities will be very-very limited.
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#18
Nash
WTF, Intel has been operating at 110% for the longest time and they're selling all they can make, apparently TSMC values a manufacturing relationship with them. What would Apple do?
chris.londonApple has much-much deeper pockets than Intel. I would be surprised if Apple let Intel outbid them, so at least parts of this story are definitely fake.
Secured being the operative word. With all their money Apple can finally afford to build a fab of their own!
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#19
chris.london
NashSecured being the operative word. With all their money Apple can finally afford to build a fab of their own!
Apple doesn’t do capital investments on the scale that would be required to build state-of-the-art fabs. They don’t have the know-how and the timeline wouldn’t work either.
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#20
Nash
Cool "Intel is said to be leveraging TSMC's 3nm manufacturing for mobile CPUs destined for laptops, and data center processors. The data center is an especially important category because of how lucrative it is, and Intel is hoping to regain some of the market share it has lost to AMD with its EPYC lineup."

"Currently the chip volume planned for Intel is more than that for Apple's iPad using the 3-nanometer process," a source told Nikkei Asia. Apple And Intel Are Racing To Deliver Next-Gen 3nm Chips In 2022 Thanks To TSMC
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#21
RH92
chris.londonApple has much-much deeper pockets than Intel. I would be surprised if Apple let Intel outbid them, so at least parts of this story are definitely fake.

Edit: the only way Intel secured more 3nm capacity, if Apple let them. And that would have only happened if the initial 3nm capacity was so low that booking all of it wouldn’t have been enough for any of Apple’s SoCs (or AMD’s chiplets). There is a good chance this whole story has been blown out of proportion: Intel booked most of the initial runs, but quantities will be very-very limited.
Yes i do agree that Apple have deeper pockets that being said there are reasons that can justify TSMCs decision to give priority to Intel , if anything else they could use this as leverage in order to make Apple pay more .

I mean everything is possible but the information is coming from Nikkei Asia , that's a serious publisher it's not like this is a rumor someone brought up on reddit or something , hence why i have hard time to buy the ''fake news'' argument .

Also in regards to the low capacity theory , both Intel chips are going to manufacture there concern high volume markets ( mobile and server ) so here again i don't believe this theory holds water . I guess we will know better with time but with the limited information we have right now i still stand on my initial opinion that this could have serious implications on the medium-long term .
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#22
Nash
chris.londonApple doesn’t do capital investments on the scale that would be required to build state-of-the-art fabs. They don’t have the know-how and the timeline wouldn’t work either.
Like the over half-billion USD they promised GT Advanced Technologies to produce sapphire to be chopped up for covers on iPhone 6's? GT went bankrupt after their boules cracked.
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#23
R-T-B
lynx29never heard of psp, RIP company overreach and freedom LOL
PSP is worse than Management engine IMO, not because it is actually known to be worse, but because we understand what the management engine does (not much) and nearly no one has done research on the PSP.

It scares me for the reason anyone is scared of the unknown: We don't know what it does. It seems to have some tie ins to qualcomm patent wise. That's all I know.
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#24
AnarchoPrimitiv
This is seriously disappointing....I've been saying it since AMD first released zen....that we consumers/enthusiasts are in peril of going back to intel hegemony and 5% performance gains until AMD reaches 50% market share across all segments....history repeats itself, last time AMD threatened, Intel bribed OEMs....this time, they're just using financial power instead of actually making a better product (but then again, that's par for the course in late-stage, highly concentrated/cartel capitalism)...here's to a return to stagnation
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#25
z1n0x
AnarchoPrimitivThis is seriously disappointing....I've been saying it since AMD first released zen....that we consumers/enthusiasts are in peril of going back to intel hegemony and 5% performance gains until AMD reaches 50% market share across all segments....history repeats itself, last time AMD threatened, Intel bribed OEMs....this time, they're just using financial power instead of actually making a better product (but then again, that's par for the course in late-stage, highly concentrated/cartel capitalism)...here's to a return to stagnation
Don't worry this very likely a BS article sponsored by Intel's marketing. Apple is TSMC most important customer, and AMD been also very important, no way they will screw them like that.
Plus Intel has no chance at financial war with Apple. Apple ~$200b cash, Intel ~$24b cash.
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