Sunday, May 25th 2008

Technology Analyst: Get Over Vista Hate

A reporter and technology analyst for the Washington Post recently took a rather strong point of view regarding Windows Vista and XP. He accepts that Vista has it's flaws, such as "steep hardware requirements, its strict anti-piracy measures, its sometimes-intrusive security measures, its incompatibility with some older products." However, he points out that the current market behavior, which is something along the lines of "don't upgrade until Vista gets better, and beg to keep XP on shelves" is not doing Vista or Microsoft any good. He points out that XP is not a historic monument in need of preservation, and is more like an old car: it's had a good run, but in view of some XP flaws when compared to Vista strongpoints, it's time to move on. The analyst also pointed out that fundamental supply/demand economics is keeping Vista from rising to greatness. As long as the market holds on to XP, and refuses to move on to Vista, software makers will not see a very good reason to adopt or support Vista, which causes most of the problems Vista has today. You can read more details at the source link.Source: Daily Tech
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157 Comments on Technology Analyst: Get Over Vista Hate

#1
FreedomEclipse
~Technological Technocrat~
kylew said:
Oh, wow, atleast you admit it. I wonder how many of the vista haters have actually used vista them selves?
Ive used it for over a week.
Posted on Reply
#2
Black Hades
Easy Rhino said:
i agree. when i first installed vista i did not like it. the interface felt awkward and it was pretty slow to respond to commands. but after a couple of days it speeded up. and yes, disable indexing and windows search also helps. the speedboost thing is supposed to help in some cases but i didnt recognize a difference.
Well I disable indexing on XP too :p It's a waste of resources for most

Also remove the hibernation function, turn off sys restore on all but the windows partition, uninstall the msn explorer, windows messenger, defrag my meta files/MFT/pagefile, etc
Posted on Reply
#3
Rebo&Zooty
AsRock said:
Vista is fairly nice. once the bugs are out should be a pretty nice OS. I remember having those XP issue's. People need to stop saying XP suck Vista sucks as it's just so dam annoying.

Everyone's need are different along with expectations. I like Vista more than i did when beta's were out so it's getting there. Would i replace it with Vista cannot see that happening at this time.
but they both really do suck, just one sucks more then the other currently.

jonmcc33 said:
What did Windows XP have that Windows 2000 didn't? Uses far less system resources than Windows XP does too.


Who uses Windows Media Center? Wouldn't it be a good idea to use the software that comes with your TV card? Hmmmmm... :rolleyes:
xp had LUNA and system restore, thats about it, and luna as i said in the xp beta days makes me think "fisher price: my first pc" every time i see it.

and alot of cards today that come out "vista ready" pretty much FORCE you to use vista's bult in media center because it saves the card maker $ they would spent bundling a vista compatable 3rd party app(many times the xp version dosnt work on vista or only works 1/2 way) so yeah IF the card came with good VISTA COMPATABLE software thats one thing, but also why should you have to use or buy 3rd party software when one of the selling points for vista is that its got mediacenter built in?

thats like expecting people to HAVE to install opera or firefox for web browsing because ie refuses to load some webpages thanks to an illegal tag the page maker added.

or expecting the user to install 3rd party media player because wmp refuses to play videos because they are 720p/1080p and your videocard or its drivers are not certifyed by the mpaa for HD content(vista can do this.....wait and see they will endup forcing u to crack vista to fix it....and it effects 3rd party vista software not just wmp) and that 720p/1080p content could be HOME VIDEOS if somebody got a nice shieny new hd camcorder...........


my point is, why should the user have to hack their own system to get fetures that are advertised as selling points of the os? if its got media center built in, then media center should work and follow the LAWS OF THE COUNRY ITS BEING USED IN!!!!

jocksteeluk said:
you cans compare an office OS to a home user OS, a fairer comparison would be windows 98 to windows millennium as both were made for one market sector, Windows Xp to Vista is an Upgrade comparable to Windows 98se to Windows Millennium.
acctualy by the time XP came out ms had been "marketing" 2k as a home user alternitive for a while, mostly because ME was such a peice of shit and they had to do something.

xp is just 2k with alot of extra bloat piled on top, if you cant find 2k drivers for something, xp drivers work, if you cant find xp drivers for something 2k drivers work, just as 2003 uses xp or 2k drivers, same driver model and to me thats a good thing in my book, it means that i dont gotta feel like im having my nutz slamed in a cardoor every time i try and use some peice of hardware i have had around a couple years(vista dont like ALOT of hardware and dosnt have even generic drivers to support text printing on LTP printers.....every os pre vista has that even windows 3.0......... i know one buisness neer here had to have xp put back on their POS(point of sale) system because vista wouldnt work with their dot matrix printer, they used a generic epson driver from xp to set it up, its used with recepts that pring both a main recept and a carbon copy at same time, its sort of REQUIERED that it work, and a new dot matrix printer thats vista compatable, you wont belive the price, around $3000.00(yes 3k us dollers for an old ass dot matrix printer design thats got vista support)

blah, what a crock.........see why buisnesses dont want to move to vista? alot of them dont wana have to rebuy their hardware just because vista dosnt come with proper support for stuff they have.
Posted on Reply
#4
Nitro-Max
Im not buying it sounds like a pathetic plea for people to buy more until im happy with vista i wont instal it.
the move for alot of people means slower systems and more ram usage who in there right mind would welcome that?

why cant they carry on support for both systems? its what the public wants.
Posted on Reply
#5
farlex85
Nitro-Max said:
Im not buying it sounds like a pathetic plea for people to buy more until im happy with vista i wont instal it.
the move for alot of people means slower systems and more ram usage who in there right mind would welcome that?

why cant they carry on support for both systems? its what the public wants.
For the same reason they don't continue support for the xbox, the ps1, n64, 1993 Chevy Silverado (model just came to mind), ect. They want your money, make no mistake. Welcome to the free market. And pushing technology forward is the norm for the pc market, and mostly, its a good thing it is. Enjoy the progress, be glad your not still playing original xbox quality games b/c users complained they had to upgrade to a new system to play the new stuff.....:shadedshu
Posted on Reply
#6
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
farlex85 said:
For the same reason they don't continue support for the xbox, the ps1, n64, 1993 Chevy Silverado (model just came to mind), ect. They want your money, make no mistake. Welcome to the free market.
yes, they want your money. but they also don't have the resources to continue to innovate AND continue to support the older technologies.
Posted on Reply
#7
Megasty
Easy Rhino said:
yes, they want your money. but they also don't have the resources to continue to innovate AND continue to support the older technologies.
Exactly, it would take away from the progression of the newer tech as well. So its a 2-way street. I would rather see the new tech being improved instead of a dying horse being kept on life support.
Posted on Reply
#8
farlex85
Megasty said:
Exactly, it would take away from the progression of the newer tech as well. So its a 2-way street. I would rather see the new tech being improved instead of a dying horse being kept on life support.
Me too, me too.
Posted on Reply
#9
Triprift
Megasty said:
Exactly, it would take away from the progression of the newer tech as well. So its a 2-way street. I would rather see the new tech being improved instead of a dying horse being kept on life support.
I coudnt of put it better myself xps had a great run just let it go gracefully.
Posted on Reply
#10
Haytch
XP needs a major overhaul. Too many features to mention that should be implemented, all user selected ofcourse! A new operating system altogether was bound to happen, and i honostly believed the greater majority anxiously awaited its arrival.

The end result is that a ' dying horse ' is still outrunning the ' maturing hourse '. End users reserve the right to hold onto that which is working more stable, more secure & more efficient for aslong as it takes for Microsoft to get their act together.

I was on the phone to MS the other day, to validate my XP operating system after a hardware change. I inquired about a new operating system and was told that a new one would be out soon!
Like Windows ME came out after 98se, it couldnt compare to the older operating system. Windows ME was the most pathetic resource hungry failure that was quickly replaced.

When i look at Vista, all i see is XP with half the resources being used for no reason and a really crappy theme. Gadgets that need to be removed, annoying messages, no user friendliness, and a pathetic media centre that is better replaced by 3rd party software. Hardware & Software incompatibility, poor counterfeit protocols and so on. Actually, Vista only has ONE good thing about it, Direct X10, which is bullshit anyways. ( okais its not bullshit, because you can really see extra particles and the flames really move! )

MS really screwed up again, its a habit, maybe traditional, who cares. Like we should drop XP, they should drop Vista. They both suck for the era we are in.

Im all for progress, so i say, NEXT!
Posted on Reply
#11
Rebo&Zooty
Easy Rhino said:
yes, they want your money. but they also don't have the resources to continue to innovate AND continue to support the older technologies.
not true, ms has 2-3 programing teams working on windows at a time, one working on patching older windows, 1 working on current windows, and one working on the next windows, now many times there are multi teams on each project, but its easyer to explain it as old-current-new then to explain that ms also has teams on IE patches and the new version of IE, Media Player, messenger apps, it goes on and on.

It dosnt harm the current windows for ms to give proper support to older versions, infact many times the security patches need done for both newer and older versions since ms is horrible about not fixing shit when its reported only when it becomes a problem(see the blaster and lovesan worms)

really ms has plenty of resorces to develop 4+ versions of windows at the same time, the problem is that they spend to much time on shit like areo insted of acctual innovation and improoving the core os.....


im hoping strongly that with windows7 this changes, because if it dosnt, i see mac gaining alot of users, as well as linux/bsd and other alt os's, vista has already driven alot of people to noobuntu,linspire and xandros, its only gonna get worse if they keep headed in that same dirrection........

guess this is good news for the opensauce community, they are gaining users and market share due to ms's pusing out os's that many users dont want, and forcing them to buy xp again if they want to stick xp on the system insted of vista.........many ppl see 140-150 for OEM xp, and think "humm maby its time to try something new, i keep reading about noobuntu and linspire"
Posted on Reply
#12
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Rebo&Zooty said:
not true, ms has 2-3 programing teams working on windows at a time, one working on patching older windows, 1 working on current windows, and one working on the next windows, now many times there are multi teams on each project, but its easyer to explain it as old-current-new then to explain that ms also has teams on IE patches and the new version of IE, Media Player, messenger apps, it goes on and on.

It dosnt harm the current windows for ms to give proper support to older versions, infact many times the security patches need done for both newer and older versions since ms is horrible about not fixing shit when its reported only when it becomes a problem(see the blaster and lovesan worms)

really ms has plenty of resorces to develop 4+ versions of windows at the same time, the problem is that they spend to much time on shit like areo insted of acctual innovation and improoving the core os.....


im hoping strongly that with windows7 this changes, because if it dosnt, i see mac gaining alot of users, as well as linux/bsd and other alt os's, vista has already driven alot of people to noobuntu,linspire and xandros, its only gonna get worse if they keep headed in that same dirrection........

guess this is good news for the opensauce community, they are gaining users and market share due to ms's pusing out os's that many users dont want, and forcing them to buy xp again if they want to stick xp on the system insted of vista.........many ppl see 140-150 for OEM xp, and think "humm maby its time to try something new, i keep reading about noobuntu and linspire"
maybe in a perfect world. but the truth is money does not grow on trees. microsoft has shareholders to satisfy, therefore they dont have the resources to continue support on older technologies. they must innovate! that means they have to pull resources from older technology to new ones. it is basic business.
Posted on Reply
#13
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
Yeah, innovation. Making and selling a tire tube with a thousand cuts, selling patches, if patches don't work, promise people the next tube they make is better, force them to buy the next tube, but turns out still has cuts, people are forced to live on with it. Reason being there is no compelling alternative to Windows, the way Phenom 9850 is to Q6600. So in a way we're slave to Microsoft, we have to pay for their software just as we pay taxes.
Posted on Reply
#14
Rebo&Zooty
Easy Rhino said:
maybe in a perfect world. but the truth is money does not grow on trees. microsoft has shareholders to satisfy, therefore they dont have the resources to continue support on older technologies. they must innovate! that means they have to pull resources from older technology to new ones. it is basic business.
but ms CANT do that, they would and will be sued if they fail to support xp, they can EOL sales, but buisness relys on extended support(support after sales end) check how long 2k or nt4 where supported after they where outmoded.

fact is ms HAS to support their older os's, if they dont large businesses that rely on that support will sue, then they will leave ms for unix/linux or mac, thats basic business, if you piss off your customer base, you dont have a customer base.

ms has more then enought $ to support xp+vista+develop windows 7, yes in the short term it will cost them $ but in the long run it makes them $, and i dont see ms as being quite so short sited as to shoot themselved in the nuts with a shotgun by dumping xp support.

there are alot of businesses that CANT move to vista, they use apps that WILL NOT WORK ON VISTA or hardware that WILL NOT WORK ON VISTA, many of those apps are custom apps that do not have upgraded versions OR if they have upgraded versions they arent compatable with backups/saves from older versions(more common then you would think, mostly done when a company also wants to sell their services converting a database for those who upgrade)

if they dumped xp support, those clients would use xp till they couldnt use it anymore, as they looked for alternitives.

for example a local money management company around here recently started the move to linux, they are using WINE to run their old account management software, vista WOULDNT run it, and the company that made the softwares been out of buisness for years, it would cost alot to replace a system thats still plenty powerfull for what they do, so insted they asked some experts what they could do, a few options like keep xp and buy more licences and install it on the new systems you buy then pay for extended support after the support period from ms has officialy ended came up, BUT one of them said, why not try running your program in wine, it worked, a little tweaking and it worked flawless, now they have a custom build that they are slowly replacing windows with, its based on slackware's latist build, has all the apps they need built into the disk, oh yeah, and it will run smooth as silk on their current systems, so no need to upgrade old boxes.

oh and yes vmware/virtual pc was considered, but the cost of vmware was restrictive and virtual pc wasnt reliable with it, cant remmber then name of the program they use, but it was made for them spicificly by a software firm that nolonger excists( they closed down and where bought up by another company like 4-5 years ago)

ms lost their buisness because they wouldnt sell them a large number of xp VLK's, the ms rep kept pushing them to move to vista because it was better, he didnt listen when they flat out told him and showed him that the app they use WILL NOT RUN ON VISTA, he insisted they needed to use vista.....

as in any buisness, if you dont listen to your customers, you loose them.......well other then the oil industry and tabaco, those 2 industrys can do whatever they want and people will keep buying.......:P
Posted on Reply
#15
jonmcc33
kylew said:
When will people get over the system resources? WHY have RAM if you moan when it gets used? Seriously, these days you can pick up 4GB of RAM for under £50, you have NO reason to complain about it actually getting used. As for using software that comes with the TV card, I haven't found one yet that betters windows media centre. Just because you don't use it, doesn't mean a lot of others don't.
What? I don't think you got the point of my post. :confused:

Easy Rhino said:
i agree. when i first installed vista i did not like it. the interface felt awkward and it was pretty slow to respond to commands. but after a couple of days it speeded up. and yes, disable indexing and windows search also helps. the speedboost thing is supposed to help in some cases but i didnt recognize a difference.
What? That's one of the best parts of Vista! It only indexes C:\Users by default anyway. It won't speed anything up.
Posted on Reply
#16
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
btarunr said:
Yeah, innovation. Making and selling a tire tube with a thousand cuts, selling patches, if patches don't work, promise people the next tube they make is better, force them to buy the next tube, but turns out still has cuts, people are forced to live on with it. Reason being there is no compelling alternative to Windows, the way Phenom 9850 is to Q6600. So in a way we're slave to Microsoft, we have to pay for their software just as we pay taxes.
you dont have to buy anything you dont want to. you choose to buy microsoft products.
Posted on Reply
#17
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Rebo&Zooty said:
but ms CANT do that, they would and will be sued if they fail to support xp, they can EOL sales, but buisness relys on extended support(support after sales end) check how long 2k or nt4 where supported after they where outmoded.

fact is ms HAS to support their older os's, if they dont large businesses that rely on that support will sue, then they will leave ms for unix/linux or mac, thats basic business, if you piss off your customer base, you dont have a customer base.

ms has more then enought $ to support xp+vista+develop windows 7, yes in the short term it will cost them $ but in the long run it makes them $, and i dont see ms as being quite so short sited as to shoot themselved in the nuts with a shotgun by dumping xp support.

there are alot of businesses that CANT move to vista, they use apps that WILL NOT WORK ON VISTA or hardware that WILL NOT WORK ON VISTA, many of those apps are custom apps that do not have upgraded versions OR if they have upgraded versions they arent compatable with backups/saves from older versions(more common then you would think, mostly done when a company also wants to sell their services converting a database for those who upgrade)

if they dumped xp support, those clients would use xp till they couldnt use it anymore, as they looked for alternitives.

for example a local money management company around here recently started the move to linux, they are using WINE to run their old account management software, vista WOULDNT run it, and the company that made the softwares been out of buisness for years, it would cost alot to replace a system thats still plenty powerfull for what they do, so insted they asked some experts what they could do, a few options like keep xp and buy more licences and install it on the new systems you buy then pay for extended support after the support period from ms has officialy ended came up, BUT one of them said, why not try running your program in wine, it worked, a little tweaking and it worked flawless, now they have a custom build that they are slowly replacing windows with, its based on slackware's latist build, has all the apps they need built into the disk, oh yeah, and it will run smooth as silk on their current systems, so no need to upgrade old boxes.

oh and yes vmware/virtual pc was considered, but the cost of vmware was restrictive and virtual pc wasnt reliable with it, cant remmber then name of the program they use, but it was made for them spicificly by a software firm that nolonger excists( they closed down and where bought up by another company like 4-5 years ago)

ms lost their buisness because they wouldnt sell them a large number of xp VLK's, the ms rep kept pushing them to move to vista because it was better, he didnt listen when they flat out told him and showed him that the app they use WILL NOT RUN ON VISTA, he insisted they needed to use vista.....

as in any buisness, if you dont listen to your customers, you loose them.......well other then the oil industry and tabaco, those 2 industrys can do whatever they want and people will keep buying.......:P
im not saying they pull all their resources. im saying that they pull some. they keep enough to honor their extended contracts. they cant support what they make forever. if they did they would be out of business because another company which just started up would have an advantage of not having to support older software. you see what im saying?
Posted on Reply
#18
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
a lot of you have missed the point. you whine because vista does not perform as well as windows xp using the same hardware to run applications and games. but every new OS requires higher specs because of consumer demand for functionality and accesibility. you want vista to be better than XP at running applications? then you do it. you start coding and see how it goes. oh whats that? you dont know how to code? then how can you possibly complain about something you dont have the ability to change. you can either buy it or not. that is your role as the consumer. if enought people dont buy it then microsoft will get the message and their next OS will address those problems. but dont expect some miracle OS that will never crash and run crysis at 1,000 FPS on ultra high settings. i dont see the point of all this complaining. you are wasting your energy.
Posted on Reply
#19
beyond_amusia
Just watch, people will cling to Vista like they cling to XP now when Windows 7 comes out. lol.
On the other hand, they may leap from XP to Windows 7.... As of now, an install of windows 7 M1 requires an upgrade from Vista, so MS may just give the XP lovers the finger and say "vista to 7 only, not XP to 7" lol. Then again, there is always a clean install...
Posted on Reply
#20
Wile E
Power User
Rebo&Zooty said:
so if i tell you that xp,2k,2k3,x64pro, and any version of linux/unix would record that program without a problem your gonna say thats not vistas fault.

and no there wasnt a work around, i did a little research, the only "fix" is to find 3rd party software to use, and why would you buy a vista media system then want to buy 3rd party software in order to beable to use it for what you bought it for?

and ms CANT leigaly brick a pre vista machien at will, you can sue and will win if they do.
read your vista EULA closely, ms can do whatever they want to you and your system once you move to vista, not that it would stop me from moving if i saw the VALUE in doing so, or if their where more positives then negitives for me.

and as i have said b4, im not linux lover, but saddly, ms is driving more and more people to crappy linux distros like noobuntu and linspire by their acctions with vista.

no pre-vista windows had DRM built into it as part of its core design, do a bit of research, if the mpaa/riaa dont like your videocard/video drivers/sound card/sound drivers they can tell ms to dissable them, this can be a partial dissable or full on block of the driver reverting you to VGA mode/no sound OR they could also dissable it in such a way that you just get no image on your screen......fun.

vista can lower the quility of output on your audio and video subsystems if ms/mpaa/riaa deside your system dosnt meet their standreds, again, no other version of windows or os for that matter has this "feture".

wouldnt you be happy if your 8800 or 2900/38*0 just stoped being able to play movies one day because somebody desided that it wasnt suitable to playback HD content?
of if they degraded it to 320x240 res quility on all content you tryed to play?
or ur sound stoped working or degraded the quility to 32kbps mp3 levels?

these are all things vista CAN DO, and you dont even have to run windows update for this to happen, as the update that happened to the windows update files showed, ms can force an update any time they want, without letting you know they are doing it.

for that last update info, im sure it made these forums, i remmber how big a rough it was, people wherepissed when they found out that ms had snuk in an update to the windows update service files without permission, personaly i didnt care since it was to close a seirous hole in the update service that could have let somebody hax you easly.

but it shows how easly ms can access a windows system, especly vista where by installing it you give them permission to give you a sore ass if they feel like it.
Ummm, output can be disabled on XP as well. Both audio and video, just like Vista.

But like I said, that's easily defeatable, on either os. Again, not a good argument.

And why do you keep brining up extended support for corporations? We all know corporations have different needs than standard desktop users. That's not the scope of this article, and just another red herring for you to try and use to make Vista look bad.
Posted on Reply
#21
beyond_amusia
Corperations have lots of money, so they can afford new PCs; they are just cheap bastards.
Posted on Reply
#22
Haytch
The main issue here is that they are asking XP users to ' get over it '.
Better hardware required to keep up with XP ? So the better hardware will run better on XP!
Vista is shit, everyone knows it, they even know it! They are already over it, and are bringing out the new o.s very very soon. Vista was a marketing strategy to elude users to making a purchase, most making a dual purchase back to XP. MS won big time, so did their shareholders.

Windows7 seems promising as did XP after the many versions between XP PRO & 98se. I have no doubt that the majority of windows users will jump from XP to Windows7. I just hope they dont kill this one too. Please let me pick what i want to install because i cbf pulling it apart and putting together my own version.
Posted on Reply
#23
tkpenalty
Okay, this is what I'll do. I'll pirate a copy of Vista, try it out with the fully fledged updates, then I'll think about purchasing vista. Or I'll go back to XP.
Posted on Reply
#24
tigger
I'm the only one
Windows 7 looks just like vista to me,i reckon it'll just be a tweaked version of vista named windows 7 to pull in the vista haters.They'll just change/remove the stuff the vista haters did'nt like.
Posted on Reply
#25
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
tkpenalty said:
Okay, this is what I'll do. I'll pirate a copy of Vista, try it out with the fully fledged updates, then I'll think about purchasing vista. Or I'll go back to XP.
that is what i did. i at first went back to xp, but then i wanted to try dx10 gaming so i switched to vista and am loving it now.
Posted on Reply
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