Friday, March 20th 2009

AMD to Demonstrate GPU Havok Physics Acceleration at GDC

GPU-accelerated physics is turning out to be the one part of specifications AMD is yearning for. One of NVIDIA's most profitable acquisitions in recent times, has been that of Ageia technologies, and its PhysX middleware API. NVIDIA went on to port the API to its proprietary CUDA GPGPU architecture, and is now using it as a significant PR-tool apart from a feature that is genuinely grabbing game developers' attention. In response to this move, AMD's initial reaction was to build strategic technology alliance with the main competitor of PhysX: Havok, despite its acquisition by Intel.

In the upcoming Game Developers Conference (GDC) event, AMD may materialize its plans to bring a GPU-accelerated version of Havok, which has till now been CPU-accelerated. The API has featured in several popular game titles such as Half Life 2, Max Payne II, and some other Valve Source-based titles. ATI's Terry Makedon, in his Twitter-feed has revealed that AMD would put forth its “ATI GPU Physics strategy.” He also added that the company would present a tech-demonstration of Havok technology working in conjunction with ATI hardware. The physics API is expected to utilize OpenCL and AMD Stream.

Source: bit-tech.net
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226 Comments on AMD to Demonstrate GPU Havok Physics Acceleration at GDC

#1
Ben_UK
Valve is now in bed with nVidia, so that would never happen.

The ATi logos from Valve's games were removed about a year or more ago.
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#2
ShadowFold
There's one on the back of my Orange Box. And Left 4 Dead isn't "The way it's (not) meant to be played" so I don't think they are nvidia. I'm pretty sure they just made themselves neutral.
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#3
leonard_222003
Nice to know AMD/ATI finally does something here , i was worried i will have to buy Nvidia eventually if most games would add a special physx feature for every game that Ati can't do that well or not at all.
Now the question , is it going to be just as good as physx or better ? i know it's wide spread in a lot of games so it should be the guru of physics but i don't know , hope it's good.
For now physics being hardware or software didn't impressed me in any way , explosions are exagerated by physx or any software/hardware physics engine , graphics effects didn't improved to the point of being much better , it's just a thing there that is hardly noticeable afetr some playing time or anoying with over the top explosions and a stick breaking in 100 pieces.
This rush for physics is not explicable by me , if hardware got so performant to the point every pixel on the image need some physics calculations then go ahead and do it but , games still look like cartoons and trees are made from a few bitmaps.
Well it's the new gimmick that Nvidia has over Ati and will try to make it as important as they can but in reality it's hardly of any matter for the final game , the simple physics we had until now have becomed greatly exagerated and not at all life like , it still looks like a computer generated physics.
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#4
PCpraiser100
ShadowFold said:
There's one on the back of my Orange Box. And Left 4 Dead isn't "The way it's (not) meant to be played" so I don't think they are nvidia. I'm pretty sure they just made themselves neutral.
Definitely! I can tell too cause in Half-Life benchmarks its rather a fair game between the two video giants. Many games were crowned to Nvidia because the devs optimized them for ONLY Nvidia, meaning that in HL2 benches such weird-feeling news to green fans happens like the HD 3870X2 beats the 8800Ultra in Half-Life 2 Episode Two.

Anyway, before I get off-topic too much, they should get some drivers in to invent a technology with Havok to finally counteract with CUDA in F@H or 3DMark. Should we create a thread for codenames if ATI is already underway?
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#5
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
PCpraiser100 said:
This can increase scores on ATI cards as well in F@H sessions, better email Stanford to get on that.
This won't affect F@H scores at all.
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#6
TreadR
I was just going through the list of games that use PhysX and/or Havok... and I don't see why people make such a fuss about it.

For me, the games I like to play and enjoy and that would really make a deal out of this gpu accelerated physics are... few... those that use PhysX are GRAW 1 & 2, MoH and UT3 and those that use Havok are Assasin's Creed, HL:OB, MoH (also), Saints Row 2 (only X360?) and The Godfather.

And I bet a lot of other gamers play also only a few titles in this sense.
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#7
Imsochobo
TreadR said:
I was just going through the list of games that use PhysX and/or Havok... and I don't see why people make such a fuss about it.

For me, the games I like to play and enjoy and that would really make a deal out of this gpu accelerated physics are... few... those that use PhysX are GRAW 1 & 2, MoH and UT3 and those that use Havok are Assasin's Creed, HL:OB, MoH (also), Saints Row 2 (only X360?) and The Godfather.

And I bet a lot of other gamers play also only a few titles in this sense.
starcraft II diablo III, uhm well, there is alot of games using havoc.


But agree, can anyone show those type of physics aegia bragged about in their videos, in a real game, real situation ?.
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#8
CDdude55
Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Should be interesting, now Nvidia and Ati are getting into a GPU Physics wars..

Even tho Havok is on pretty much everything(all the consoles have it).
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#9
ShadowFold
Oblivion/Fallout3, Source Engine(Half-Life, Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress 2, Portal..), Rainbow Six Vegas, Saints Row, Hellgate, Company of Heroes, FEAR, Halo, Shadowrun.. The list goes on. A lot of developers know and love Havok, this is a great move on AMD's part.
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#10
csendesmark
CDdude55 said:
Should be interesting, now Nvidia and Ati are getting into a GPU Physics wars..

Even tho Havok is on pretty much everything(all the consoles have it).
PhyzX support in games is very limited

Havok has the big marketshare
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#11
CDdude55
Crazy 4 TPU!!!
csendesmark said:
PhyzX support in games is very limited

Havok has the big marketshare
Because Havok it used in pretty much everything as i said(the Console have it to)

PhysX isn't that bad, but once it gets included in more titles and the developers really try and bring it out in games, it would be great.
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#12
BrooksyX
Interesting stuff. Can't wait to see some benches and results.
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#13
TreadR
Imsochobo said:
starcraft II diablo III, uhm well, there is alot of games using havoc.
It's not what I meant... I'm am referring to a list of games that each and everyone has, games that he/her plays and enjoys.

True, there are a lot of games on each side, but I know that only a few people like to play EVERYTHING... and the rest play a few select games.

In this sense, how much does it really matter?
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#14
kid41212003
Intel already bought AMD secretly, they're manipulating the market.

AMD adopt Havok pretty much proved this.
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#15
KainXS
I am hoping PhysX will soon die because most physics heavy games are havok based
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#16
random
Imsochobo said:
starcraft II diablo III, uhm well, there is alot of games using havoc.


But agree, can anyone show those type of physics aegia bragged about in their videos, in a real game, real situation ?.
if blizzard is using havoc for their upcoming games then it won't make this such a hard decision for AMD/ATI because I can guess that only ten million copies will be sold on the first day of their releases lol :D.
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#17
Steevo
Don't forget ATI/AMD are hand holders with MS, Nvidia is always out in left field doing unmentionable things with a basebal bat, glove, and a victorias secret catalog.
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#18
VanguardGX
Off topic: Just checked the back of my half life 2 episode pack and its got the "nvidia" on it! I thought this was ATi game.

On topic: I dont like this whole phyzX Vs Havok thing the fact that there will be 2 different API's competing for for dominance. This means some of us are gonna miss out as some games will support havok and others will support phyzx, ATi or nvidia. Developers are not gonna spend the extra cash or dev time to incorporate both in the same game.
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#19
ShadowFold
Meh, no one uses PhysX now, why would they start? Like I said before, a lot of devs already use Havok and are familiar with it so I think they will use it.
And about the episode pack, valve did sport the nvidia logo for a short time awhile after portal came out, they gave nvidia owners a demo of it, woo hoo :rolleyes:
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#20
VanguardGX
ShadowFold said:
Meh, no one uses PhysX now, why would they start? Like I said before, a lot of devs already use Havok and are familiar with it so I think they will use it.
I dunno man nvidia can be a very influential company. They got most every developer to forget about dx 10.1:mad:

I would love to see what they're gonna do when dx 11 comes out.
Open CL could render phyzx dead.
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#21
ShadowFold
Well they aren't very persuasive with PhysX since almost no one has used it. Some use it as a primary engine, but none really use it heavily like in Warmonger or.. Yea.
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#22
random
NVIDIA is an influential company and so is ATI since their the only two players out for the crown at the moment. And none of us will be alive to see a winner in the end because to me, this is just an endless cycle of what's new and whats going to be out phased. But for the time being ATI AMD + Microsoft + Blizzard is going to be a beast of a combination.

Physx and havok, I doubt there is much to miss there but moving cloth, so be it a PhysX or Havok game we'll all still be able to experience the best out of all the good games to come.
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#23
ShadowFold
randomflip said:
Physx and havok, I doubt there is much to miss there but moving cloth, so be it a PhysX or Havok game we'll all still be able to experience the best out of all the good games to come.
True that! But from what I've seen on Half-Life 2 I think it will have actual mass physics. Play Garry's Mod and spawn a ton of boxes or something, it doesn't start lagging until you spawn about 50-80 of them(for me), the only thing I've seen from PhysX is fancy cloth and glass, who cares? I want mass physics and explosions!
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#24
Mussels
Moderprator
Yay. another reason to justify me getting my 4870.
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#25
random
ShadowFold said:
True that! But from what I've seen on Half-Life 2 I think it will have actual mass physics. Play Garry's Mod and spawn a ton of boxes or something, it doesn't start lagging until you spawn about 50-80 of them(for me), the only thing I've seen from PhysX is fancy cloth and glass, who cares? I want mass physics and explosions!
I need a question answered. Froblins the demo and ATI Stream Processing, is the stream processing similar to Nvidia's Physx? If so, is it an example of mass physics?
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