Who'll be the better president?

[intel igent]

i don't see how this topic/debate can get any lower, as it is as low as it can get.

i say we lock this topic down for the better of the TPU community.

Ye, or Neh

you decide.

i say keep the thread open, it's nice to see other's argue for once and call each other name's without being infracted.

Because they were complete garbage (barring Tatty's), which had little or no relevence, not only that, but destructive feedback. There will be no further discussion on that. This thread was started by W1z, as a prelude to the real polls that come up, and on what difference polls on the frontpage make. You're free to discuss in and around the topic, but try trivialising it, and you've had it.

tatty is OK to post off topic but i can't? power trip/bias much?

:shadedshu

 

[btarunr]

Your post triggered his comment/response. Both his and my posts were deleted anyway. And how the hell would you know if others in this thread haven't been infracted? They have.

 

[Tatty_Two]

i say keep the thread open, it's nice to see other's argue for once and call each other name's without being infracted.



tatty is OK to post off topic but i can't? power trip/bias much?

:shadedshu

Where did he say that? He deleted mine also, I have actually only made 3 posts here and they were all off topic that did actually deserve to be deleted, I havent read what you have posted in this thread so I cannot comment on what you have contributed, in our little friendly exchange we were just playing around and thats why I guess they were deleted, I dont think he was necessarily talking exclusively about your posts with me?

 

[intel igent]

I havent read what you have posted in this thread so I cannot comment on what you have contributed.

one of your post's that was deleted was a direct quote of my post but yet you never read any of my post's?

you guy's are too much!

 

[TUngsten]

I think having a heated debate is a good thing, so long as everyone avoids personal attacks.

I think it's hard to quantify, but in my mind, the democratic party represents a more complete set of core ideals that will benefit us long-term, and the republicans seem extremely short-sighted.

I've always liked McCain for his reform initiatives and refusal to go party line on so many things, but I'd prefer to see someone in the WH who is socially conscious and capable of looking long-term.

I think the Republicans cater to the anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-gun control rhetoric because they see that as the only way they can hold onto that portion of middle- and southern-America that is typically poor, religious and minimally uneducated, and they have little else to criticize the democrats with beyond saying over and over that the Dems want to raise taxes...

I'm certainly not saying that mid/south US is poor and uneducated - only that there is a segment of that population that the Republicans have carefully targeted and try to keep in their camp, although many social democratic initiatives would likely have a direct effect on making their lives better.

The last 8 years of GW and the Iraq war has nearly bankrupted our entire country, and it was all built on lies that McCain still stands by. We've borrowed TRILLIONS of dollars from CHINA to pay for the war. That's why our taxes haven't gone up. Personally, I'd rather pay more taxes than owe the Chinese $10,000,000,000.00 and have our economy on the brink of disaster.

After 911, many nations of the world offered the USA assistance and support (even IRAN) but GW said no, and instead ignored the UN and went ahead with a pre-existing plan to invade Iraq. He squandered an opportunity to unite ther entire world VS terrorism, and instead concocted this bullshit Iraq war to satisfy the republicans own demented ambitions.

 

[Tatty_Two]

one of your post's that was deleted was a direct quote of my post but yet you never read any of my post's?

you guy's are too much!

I am talking about the other 19 pages, as I mentioned our "little" bit of humour was just 2 or 3 posts on page 15, the first of which was me saying that sometimes, just sometimes it might actually good to be a brit, you made a comment about being canadian, I said that was too close, now all of a sudden you seem to think that "our" 3 deleted posts constitutes a conspiracy against you, as I said..... I have not read the OTHER 19 pages of stuff and therefore any contribution you have made in the rest of this thread.....is that clearer for you?

So, now where are we? You and me have a friendly 3 post "off topic" exchange on Page 15, nothing whatsover to do with all the several other posts on topic you have contributed, because OUR (thats yours AND mine) 3 friendly post that were off topic have been deleted somehow I am to blame and there is a conspiricy against you?.....I am afraid paranoia springs to mind!

 

[btarunr]

1. Tatty, I deleted your comment(s) beacuse it was quoting Intel's post(s) containing his own "figment of imagination", not that you were to blamed for anything.

2. Intel, I deleted your comments because they were not only vague, but also inflammatory, and did no good to the discussion at large. Yes you're perfectly allowed to 'have fun' by going a little around the fences of the topic, but take it far, and we'll have to delete it. Notice I haven't infracted you. Whatever your imagination feeds you, I'm here to keep this thread smooth, that accomodates all sorts of matured comments, a little cooling off is more than welcome. I have zero vendetta against anyone, just as I have zero affinity / bias towards anyone. I have a duty to serve, let me do it, in the best interests of everyone at large.

3. You shall not respond to this post or discuss anything with regard to this. Infractions will follow.

 

[DaMulta]

I think having a heated debate is a good thing, so long as everyone avoids personal attacks.

I think it's hard to quantify, but in my mind, the democratic party represents a more complete set of core ideals that will benefit us long-term, and the republicans seem extremely short-sighted.

I've always liked McCain for his reform initiatives and refusal to go party line on so many things, but I'd prefer to see someone in the WH who is socially conscious and capable of looking long-term.

I think the Republicans cater to the anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-gun control rhetoric because they see that as the only way they can hold onto that portion of middle- and southern-America that is typically poor, religious and minimally uneducated, and they have little else to criticize the democrats with beyond saying over and over that the Dems want to raise taxes...

I'm certainly not saying that mid/south US is poor and uneducated - only that there is a segment of that population that the Republicans have carefully targeted and try to keep in their camp, although many social democratic initiatives would likely have a direct effect on making their lives better.

The last 8 years of GW and the Iraq war has nearly bankrupted our entire country, and it was all built on lies that McCain still stands by. We've borrowed TRILLIONS of dollars from CHINA to pay for the war. That's why our taxes haven't gone up. Personally, I'd rather pay more taxes than owe the Chinese $10,000,000,000.00 and have our economy on the brink of disaster.

After 911, many nations of the world offered the USA assistance and support (even IRAN) but GW said no, and instead ignored the UN and went ahead with a pre-existing plan to invade Iraq. He squandered an opportunity to unite ther entire world VS terrorism, and instead concocted this bullshit Iraq war to satisfy the republicans own demented ambitions.

It's sooo funny that China makes money then loans it out to us. They could come and demand it back one day, that could start another war. One that a lot of us would not live through. Most of our states keep going in the red every year. It's crazy that we don't make all our states have a balanced budget every year. My state happens to be a balanced budget state, if the money isn't there, we don't spend it.

My dad that's a money man(plays big in the all the markets), tells me that we(usa federal goverment) want to owe the money. Some how because of it they can control interest rates on the fly and other things with ease because of it. If they want to lower the rates they can pay it off, if they want to raise them they can add more to it. It's a f,ed up way they control the markets.

Yesterday(kind of the something about owing big money) when I was talking to him about GM Borrowing the 25 billion and about them being in the red. He told me when you run a company it's good to show that you took a loss at the end of the year because of taxes breaks. Your still making money, but putting more and more of it back in the business which shows that u lost money on the books. When you do that you get more tax breaks and other intensives that actually saves you money and makes you more money in the end of the day. It's just on paper it tells you another thing than it actually is.

 

[InfDamarvel]

A Man who votes 91% of the time with Bush or a man who thinks of American citizens as well as the the world around us. Personally its about time for out country to win back out allies. The more allies we have the more fear we strike into the eyes of the terrorist.

Also, Id also like to point out something about Iraq. When we went into this war we sought out the terrorist organization Al qaeda in Afghanistan. Yet as time moved on we someone made ourselves known in Iraq to look for weapons of mass destruction. Then when no weapons of mass destruction were found we came up with a new reason which was to reform the Iraq government.

I don't know how people are still being fulled by this Iraq concept in which Bush put into office. Yet some people believe that we succeeded in Afghanistan? We failed to stop Al qaeda or find Osama Bin Laden. And last I checked this was all started over finding Osama Bin laden.

 

[DaMulta]

Weapons of mass destruction, was what they said. They could of had them, and they could still be there buried in the desert. Now Saddam Hussein was a crazy ruler if you ever stop and read about what he and his family did while they were in control it will make you sick to your stomach. From rapping women and filming to sending it back to their family for them to see, to throwing babies against the wall. The fact that on his kids birthdays they got to go to a prison and kill someone for their birthday present. He even committed genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign

The list can go on and on, from the first day that he came into power, and hung everyone in the public streets that was power that was not with him.

They say that his kids were even worse, and when they would come into power it would of been even crazier.

But, their world over there is different that the Eu or us the west. They hate one another, and have been killing each other for centuries. It's bad to say it, at least for me it is, but maybe those people needed to be ruled with fear to keep them under control. During his rule of power did they have people driving around blowing themselves up in car bombs, going to neighbor hoods, and then beheading people because of their religion. In a crazy way, he might of kept them all under control from doing crazy things to one another by treating them the way that he did. Of course people suffered because of that, but did it keep most people under control and in some form of peace? I don't really know....I think that it's a hard thing to talk about.

 

[NastyHabits]

Judging from the rapid growth of this thread, it looks like people care more about Obama vs. McCain then the typical ATI vs Nvidia, or Intel vs AMD fanboy topics.

This is a good thing, and should give us all - left, right, and middle - hope for the future of our country.

It would be an even better thing if we all spent as much time writing to our Senators and Congressmen.....

 

[mlupple]

If you're 20 and not a liberal, you don't have a heart. If you're 40 and not a conservative, you don't have a brain.

I'm 23 and I already have a hot-ass asian GF for 5 years, so I don't need the heart.

 

[mlupple]

The last 8 years of GW and the Iraq war has nearly bankrupted our entire country, and it was all built on lies that McCain still stands by. We've borrowed TRILLIONS of dollars from CHINA to pay for the war. That's why our taxes haven't gone up. Personally, I'd rather pay more taxes than owe the Chinese $10,000,000,000.00 and have our economy on the brink of disaster.

Dood. The amount of money we spend buying oil from the Arabs and Venezuela could fund 5 Iraq wars simultaneously. Sure 120B per year being spent in iRaq could be better spent elsewhere, but that's not what's breaking our bank... Foreign oil is. 700B per year leaving the country.

If we were 100% national energy, we'd be able to fund every social program that you femmy liberals want.

Why do you think the Democrats just caved to the Republicans and lifted the ban for off-shore drilling? Because they were wrong about it all along.

The reason George W. fuxed up so bad, is because he didn't act like a conservative. He acted like a liberal when it comes to spending taxpayer money. He could have stopped this housing mess, be he went right along with Clinton's minority housing act, and chose not to regulate these federally backed companies. WTG Liberals.


America Bought this:

If this was USA oil, our gov would collect big-time and could spend this 700B/year on all the lame shiv you libs want. Finally the retarded democrats in the legislature came to realize this.

 

[Bigjohn]

or as CNN ABC and NBC are to the left.

This is the year that the vampire of Yellow journalism crawled from the grave, pulled the stake from it's heart, and killed Media Ethics with it.

 

[btarunr]

In 2008, the US is calculative with its own oil reserves, buying it from elsewhere. But...imagine when the Arab world runs out of oil (or at least starts falling short of), the US would have better energy security. Due to the sheer size of populations that exist in this part of the world, the reserves here won't feed the populations for long. But if America buys oil for its people from elsewhere now, it can continue to feed its people using its own reserves for much longer. Brunei gave its people epic standards of living when it was in the peak of selling oil (at a time when oil was the only major source of national income), but now it's established that Brunei won't be able to sell oil post (ballpark) 2015~2020. The economy is already on a decline there after they suddenly woke up to the reality that they were over-consuming.

 

[AphexDreamer]

I personally feel that no matter who wins the election it will make no absolute difference to our economy or our way of life. (Yet if I cold vote this year I would be voting for Obama, Born in December damit)

The fact of the matter is that the current path we are taking is leading us straight to another great depression. Its hard to fathom it isn't it, yet we are repeating the same thing we did before.

First stagnation, then inflation, next thing you know its another depression.

 

[niko084]

Average american drivers car gets what probably maybe 20mpg....

What the average in Europe guys? 35-40? more? Let alone way more people use public transportation, walk, or cycle..

American's are stupid LOL *self included*

 

[Tatty_Two]

This oil thing kills me, three quarters of the world buys it's oil from elsewhere and has done so for most of it's recent history, thats not the reason why countries like our's are suffering a huge economic downturn....yes the rising (and now falling) price of oil contributes but the bottom line is spending too much when you have too much, not placing enough in reserves so when your economic policies cease to have the same positive impact for a whole host of reasons there is not enough in reserve to ride the storm, then we go into huge debt trying to sort it out which in itself slows any potential recovery.

 

[Polaris573]

Several members need to re-read the Forum Guidelines which you agreed to abide by when you joined. Specifically this section:

Posting in a thread

• Be polite, if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all. This includes trolling, continuous use of bad language (ie. cussing), flaming and insulting others.
• Short and pointless posts like "yeah", "me too" or "haha" can be made on the rest of the internet, not here. Post count doesn't increase your e-penis.
• Stay on topic, changing the topic won't help the discussion.

Thank you.

 

[AphexDreamer]

The oil crisis is complete and utter bull shit. We have 100+ sealed oil wells and we haven't even opened one! I know this cause a woman at Shell brought this up in a conversation we were having.

Thing is greedy people are making loads off of this bull shit crisis while are economy suffers and we aren't doing anything about it.

If you look in other countries people protest, riot, speak up, strike and here in the Free U.S.A. no one says shit about anything. As long as each person is happy individually they could give a fuck about anything. Its called Freedom of speech but people are still telling you want you can't or can say.

 

[TUngsten]

Dood. The amount of money we spend buying oil from the Arabs and Venezuela could fund 5 Iraq wars simultaneously. Sure 120B per year being spent in iRaq could be better spent elsewhere, but that's not what's breaking our bank... Foreign oil is. 700B per year leaving the country.

If we were 100% national energy, we'd be able to fund every social program that you femmy liberals want.

Why do you think the Democrats just caved to the Republicans and lifted the ban for off-shore drilling? Because they were wrong about it all along.

The reason George W. fuxed up so bad, is because he didn't act like a conservative. He acted like a liberal when it comes to spending taxpayer money. He could have stopped this housing mess, be he went right along with Clinton's minority housing act, and chose not to regulate these federally backed companies. WTG Liberals.

Oh man, only an extreme republican stooge would jump on the "Clinton's minority housing act" bandwagon act that's all over the right-wing talk radio right now. Everyone else (dems and republicans) understand without dispute that the cause of the housing crisis was the market deregulation and lack of any oversight preventing too many folks from buying more house than they could possibly pay back, and the resulting unregulated buying and selling of the bad assets.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/01/conservatives-seek-to-shi_n_131020.html
-an article you could read where an actual Fed Reserve Bank president and noted economist both discount Ann Coulter's bigoted claim that the housing crisis was caused by giving bad loans to minorities.

I would love to hear some original thoughts instead of cut+paste jobs from your favorite right-wing propaganda website...it was funny listening to Palin regurgitating the party line like a Barbie-Robot the other night during the debates. You're no different.

And honestly, if you're under the age of 25 you just aren't old enough to know what it was like during the Clinton years, and how completely and absolutely wrecked everything is now.

You can't blame Clinton's minority housing act, or NAFTA, or Monica Lewinski for how bad things are now. You can only blame yourself and anyone else as narrowminded who voted GW Bush into office not once, but 2 times.

 

[Polaris573]

Do not insult other members or start flame wars. I am serious.

 

[TUngsten]

My apologies, I just don't respond well to bigoted right-wing propaganda being regurgitated as fact or "news."

 

[Bigjohn]

Oh man, only an extreme republican stooge would jump on the "Clinton's minority housing act" bandwagon act that's all over the right-wing talk radio right now. Everyone else (dems and republicans) understand without dispute that the cause of the housing crisis was the market deregulation and lack of any oversight preventing too many folks from buying more house than they could possibly pay back, and the resulting unregulated buying and selling of the bad assets.

I would love to hear some original thoughts instead of cut+paste jobs from your favorite right-wing propaganda website...it was funny listening to Palin regurgitating the party line like a Barbie-Robot the other night during the debates. You're no different.

And honestly, if you're under the age of 25 you just aren't old enough to know what it was like during the Clinton years, and how completely and absolutely wrecked everything is now.

You can't blame Clinton's minority housing act, or NAFTA, or Monica Lewinski for how bad things are now. You can only blame yourself and anyone else as narrowminded who voted GW Bush into office not once, but 2 times.

Actually, you can.
The congress (most specifically democrats because they've controlled congress for 30 of the last 40 years) never looks at the consequences of the laws they pass, then they pass more laws to fix the old ones, which is like putting a piece of gum in a hole in a dam... and that is exactly what happened with this "community reinvestment act"... yet when the Republicans (John McCain was a sponsor) tried to REGULATE it, they were called Racists, and the democrats demagogued the fact while parading around and praising the then CEO of Fannie Mae Franklin Raines, and also Jim Johnson (another former CEO of Fannie Mae...) That was over 2 years ago... we could have stopped this crumbling then, but if we had poor people on welfare would not be able to buy a house...

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Mlupple, have you no decency.

Why so many insults in a row?

Your lucky our mods dislike liberal views, or you would be infracted many times by now in this discussion alone. Quit putting insults before the word liberal please.

This thread reminds me of cold war smear tactics of the right-wing. Joseph McCarthy's tactics were just like republican talk radio is today. Nothing to say but insults about everyone that doesn't completely agree with them.