Who'll be the better president?

[Rammsteiner]

The most "right" politician you europeans elected in the last 30 years is the new french president, Nicolas Sarkozy. Most (MOST!) europeans outside of france think the guy is a right wing nutcase, from my reading. Only the UK seems to like the guy much.

Slight correction, the most right president the French chose is Sarkozy. Also I didnt hear anything negative about Sarkozy, at least not something that really matters.

Also if Pim Fortuijn didnt get killed by some nice activist, he might have become the president of The Netherlands. He was pretty right yet not nationalistic.

Also, it's hard to get right winged governments. There was a slight lack off it after the 2nd WW (why I dont know, Nazi's actually were still left winged but they call it right winged). Left winged parties and/or central parties were chosen all the time. Right winged people got fed up with it, children of them go nuts over it + nowadays fuck ups from foreign people and go extremist which at the same time shows to most voters right wing is still bad.

Also, from Blair's past, I think it isnt worth a crap what UK/UK politics like since he liked Bush as well.

And I did not at any one time say I approved of those things in the past. What I am saying and I will repeat is that it is unethical and immoral to initiate force against another to take what he has for the benefit of another. If a person on the street does it, it's robbery. So why should it be ok for a government to do it?

Yes I got that the first time, yet 50% of earlier named things from me are NOT the past but current. So while you disapprove Obama's choise of taxes because it would be unfair or stealing, your current government and McCain would continue to do the exact same thing. Not to American people, but to the rest of the world.

Ok, so you want to debate the semantics of the word Successful instead of the actual facts of my statement?

Well, I think I pretty much explained it in one sentence already. Succes depends on what point of view. Although I'd love to have 10mil Euro's, you can still live royally from 20K Euro/year earnings from work, so what does this 10M Euro buffer add to my succes?

If a person has more money than someone else, he could be considered more successful (at accruing the basic tenants of life, liberty, and property...). Just because I have 3 big screen tv's in my house does not entitle another person to whine to the government for some of my money.

No of course the other guy does not have the right to go whine for your money, I never said that and Im against that.

If you make stupid choices (drop out of school and have 3 babies before your 21 by 3 different men, for example) then you deserve what you got - you made your choice and the choice to give you something is mine only, not the g*d* governments.

Well, that's true. But then again such people generally dont get a lot of support anyway ( if the choice for the 3 babies and to drop out of school was really her free choice that is).

I'm a very "constitutional libertarian", so belive me voting for McCain, well, disturbs my stomach. But you vote for the person closest to your beliefs, and in this case, a 2 trillion dollar difference in tax policy over 5 years? Yeah, that's closer to my belief.

Let me give you one further example. I personally believe that in the USA the "war on drugs" is simply a major assault on individual liberty. BUT if you choose to do drugs, and it ruins your health, then tough shit. You have no right to my earnings.

That's very true. But although I love drugs, people using it cant only hurt them selves but also others. That's why it's forbidden as well.

Ive said it lots of times in RL especially, humanity is not made for liberty/freedom. I think the most perfect way would be as in Brave New World, but it's impossible to get that going in anyway. It sounds damn awefull at some points, but just because the people dont know better no one knows how it would be different.

who said a Democrat and a Socialist were the same. Obama calls himself a Democrat but his politicizes are Socialist, you can call wrap yourself in any title you want , but to quote Obama a pig wearing lipstick is still a pig. Acorn is a self proclaimed leftist group by it's founder the first community organizer,Saul Alinsky, who used extreme agitation to gain political notice to his causes. Obama actually was an instructor who taught this theory to members of Acorn. Which fronts as a group who helps the poor but as we know it engages in and has been convicted multiple times for voter fraud. Example the registered one guy to vote in 4 different counties. They are going around Ohio and gathering mentally ill and homeless people to vote early in Ohio for Obama. There are alligations they are paying them and other violations already.

It's not the point who said that Democrats and Socialists were the same, some people here said Obama is a socialist, meaning people have no clue what socialism is about.

Also I think there's not a lot of right to crap over ACORN, as far it's true in the first place, since our lovely Bush didnt get in his office very clean. Also Palin forms actually quite some danger with her extremist God stuff. I dont see a lot of differences between her and general Middle East religious leaders

 

[WhiteLotus]

I don't see the big Hoo Har about Barack Obama being muslim (if he is one). Should it really matter - NO. Not one iota should it matter. IMO it only matters to you if your unsure about yourself, which says a lot about the type of person that you are.

 

[Arctucas]

You didn't answer his question -- did John McCain bomb civilian infrastructure in North Vietnam, or didn't he?



You, my friend, seem to have a good grasp of the situation. There is only one real political party to me in America, with two sides: Nationalist (Republicans), and slightly more Socialist (Democrats). Maybe they should get together and form some sort of "National Socialist" party or something.

Maybe then the trains would run on time, at least.

Really? I seem to recall a "National Socialist German Workers Party" caused some trouble back in the 30s and 40s in Europe.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Really? I seem to recall a "National Socialist German Workers Party" caused some trouble back in the 30s and 40s in Europe.

whats the need of this flaming?

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Slight correction, the most right president the French chose is Sarkozy. Also I didnt hear anything negative about Sarkozy, at least not something that really matters.

Also if Pim Fortuijn didnt get killed by some nice activist, he might have become the president of The Netherlands. He was pretty right yet not nationalistic.

Also, it's hard to get right winged governments. There was a slight lack off it after the 2nd WW (why I dont know, Nazi's actually were still left winged but they call it right winged). Left winged parties and/or central parties were chosen all the time. Right winged people got fed up with it, children of them go nuts over it + nowadays fuck ups from foreign people and go extremist which at the same time shows to most voters right wing is still bad.

Also, from Blair's past, I think it isnt worth a crap what UK/UK politics like since he liked Bush as well.



Yes I got that the first time, yet 50% of earlier named things from me are NOT the past but current. So while you disapprove Obama's choise of taxes because it would be unfair or stealing, your current government and McCain would continue to do the exact same thing. Not to American people, but to the rest of the world.


Well, I think I pretty much explained it in one sentence already. Succes depends on what point of view. Although I'd love to have 10mil Euro's, you can still live royally from 20K Euro/year earnings from work, so what does this 10M Euro buffer add to my succes?


No of course the other guy does not have the right to go whine for your money, I never said that and Im against that.


Well, that's true. But then again such people generally dont get a lot of support anyway ( if the choice for the 3 babies and to drop out of school was really her free choice that is).


That's very true. But although I love drugs, people using it cant only hurt them selves but also others. That's why it's forbidden as well.

Ive said it lots of times in RL especially, humanity is not made for liberty/freedom. I think the most perfect way would be as in Brave New World, but it's impossible to get that going in anyway. It sounds damn awefull at some points, but just because the people dont know better no one knows how it would be different.


It's not the point who said that Democrats and Socialists were the same, some people here said Obama is a socialist, meaning people have no clue what socialism is about.

Also I think there's not a lot of right to crap over ACORN, as far it's true in the first place, since our lovely Bush didnt get in his office very clean. Also Palin forms actually quite some danger with her extremist God stuff. I dont see a lot of differences between her and general Middle East religious leaders

couldnt agree more. on everything.

 

[proletariandan]

Dobson - "He's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the bible to fit his own world view, his own confused theology."

Pot meet kettle.

My family are fundamentalist Christian evangelicals, as was I for a few years. I used to read the bible every day so I know just how full of absolutely immoral, contradictory nonsense it is. Nice to see that Obama, who I for the most part don't like, is willing to admit that unlike that lunatic Dobson.

 

[Tatty_Two]

The most "right" politician you europeans elected in the last 30 years is the new french president, Nicolas Sarkozy. Most (MOST!) europeans outside of france think the guy is a right wing nutcase, from my reading. Only the UK seems to like the guy much.

For the record, the UK does not particularily like him, I really would like to know what you base your facts on? ( I am guessing US media which of course is well qualified to report on what Brown thinks of his guests, probably because Brown of course would tell them that "he dont really like this guy much but hey......he's a neighbour!" ...... or maybe because he visited a while back? he is a neighbour, working on that theory would suggest the Blair/Brown governments liked GWB.....I very much doubt that also Ohhhhh we also hosted McCain and Obama, so we like both of them, sadly I dont get a choice who we invite otherwise London would be full of Phillepeno Dancing Girls .......on your other point.....so you think he is more "right" than Margaret Thatcher was? Give an Octopus 8 right legs and it wouldnt be as right as Margaret!

 

[TUngsten]

What comments? There was a total of 7 seconds of him vaguely saying something containing references to biblical phrases. From that clip, we have NO idea what he was talking about, or what the context was. The following commentaries have absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Obama could have been talking about something he overheard 2 rabbis saying at McDonalds for all I know.

 

[SK-1]

Obama Youth Corps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUEQz5dltmI

The Messiah Cometh....

 

[Arctucas]

whats the need of this flaming?

Flaming?

Hardly, but perhaps you agree with mdm-adph?

Personally, I believe that anyone not eligible to vote in this election, i.e. American citizens, should not be making comments in this thread.

 

[SK-1]

Personally, I believe that anyone not eligible to vote in this election, i.e. American citizens, should not be making comments in this thread.

?? The only problem with this statement is the unfortunate fact that ....When America sneezes, the world gets a cold. So, cold victims need a voice here.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Flaming?

Hardly, but perhaps you agree with mdm-adph?

Personally, I believe that anyone not eligible to vote in this election, i.e. American citizens, should not be making comments in this thread.

Why? The title of this thread is who would make the best president, i didnt realise that only US citizens had a right to an opinion. Sometimes it is easier for some outside to see a little clearer looking in.

 

[proletariandan]

Why? The title of this thread is who would make the best president, i didnt realise that only US citizens had a right to an opinion. Sometimes it is easier for some outside to see a little clearer looking in.

Many Americans have a superiority complex since we our guns are bigger than everyone else. Sad but true.

You're just jealous of our freedom, anyway

 

[rick22]

Why? The title of this thread is who would make the best president, i didnt realise that only US citizens had a right to an opinion. Sometimes it is easier for some outside to see a little clearer looking in.

Thats not true..................................................../////////////////////

 

[mdm-adph]

Really? I seem to recall a "National Socialist German Workers Party" caused some trouble back in the 30s and 40s in Europe.

Hear a "whooshing" sound above your head?

That was the joke missing you by a mile.

 

[WhiteLotus]

Personally, I believe that anyone not eligible to vote in this election, i.e. American citizens, should not be making comments in this thread.

That has to be the silliest comment yet.
Why should we not have an opinion on to who we think will be the better President? Last i looked this was a debate to discuss this - not a place where Americans only can come and argue about who's better at what.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Many Americans have a superiority complex since we our guns are bigger than everyone else. Sad but true.

You're just jealous of our freedom, anyway

Lol, the sad thing is, you really do think you are more free than anyone else, I would be interested in your definition of free in that case, and actually, your guns are not any bigger, you just have more than most, whether you know how to use them better........now thats another thing

 

[Tatty_Two]

Thats not true..................................................../////////////////////

What? the fact that not just US citizens are entitled to an opinion of the fact that sometimes being outside looking in can give a clearer insight?

 

[zithe]

Lol, the sad thing is, you really do think you are more free than anyone else, I would be interested in your definition of free in that case, and actually, your guns are not any bigger, you just have more than most, whether you know how to use them better........now thats another thing

+1. Americans are free, but not any more free than anyone in England or Australia (maybe censorship-wise, we are! XD) or European countries other than England.

 

[Tatty_Two]

+1. Americans are free, but not any more free than anyone in England or Australia (maybe censorship-wise, we are! XD) or European countries other than England.

Thanks, although, I am not suggesting your not free of course, just genuinly not sure of the typical definition of free which could be anything really, I know that my US friends refer to their country as "the land of the free" but just not sure what it really means by definition.

 

[zithe]

Thanks, although, I am not suggesting your not free of course, just genuinly not sure of the typical definition of free which could be anything really, I know that my US friends refer to their country as "the land of the free" but just not sure what it really means by definition.

I think it's supposed to mean that we're independent.

 

[JC316]

Thanks, although, I am not suggesting your not free of course, just genuinly not sure of the typical definition of free which could be anything really, I know that my US friends refer to their country as "the land of the free" but just not sure what it really means by definition.

Actually, freedom over here is defined by how big your bank account is. You can get around almost any law provided you have the cash to do so.

 

[Rammsteiner]

Thanks, although, I am not suggesting your not free of course, just genuinly not sure of the typical definition of free which could be anything really, I know that my US friends refer to their country as "the land of the free" but just not sure what it really means by definition.

From what I know people actually refering to 'The land of the free' are the most 'dangerous'. As long as you do visit the church every sunday, believe in God, are very nationalistic towards your state and/or country etc etc, then you're indeed in the land of the free. Now how free is this exactly?

Freedom is like fair and succes a very spread out argument and actually in most situations, freedom is one big lie.

Actually, freedom over here is defined by how big your bank account is. You can get around almost any law provided you have the cash to do so.

Hmmm, that's in a lot of countries though. The bad part though is that often all the high auhoritic people are either friends or family in most situations. Sometimes you wouldn't even need money but with people like that in your family the chance is big that you can just let your crime disappaer by yourself anyway. Problem of that however is that if this certain family does not like you and/or does not support your opinions you've no chance at all. They'll take your bribe money and add bribing to their list of crimes.

 

[SK-1]

+1. Americans are free, but not any more free than anyone in England or Australia (maybe censorship-wise, we are! XD) or European countries other than England.

More free than in 1940, thanks to someone.

 

[trt740]

From what I know people actually refering to 'The land of the free' are the most 'dangerous'. As long as you do visit the church every sunday, believe in God, are very nationalistic towards your state and/or country etc etc, then you're indeed in the land of the free. Now how free is this exactly?

Freedom is like fair and succes a very spread out argument and actually in most situations, freedom is one big lie.


Hmmm, that's in a lot of countries though. The bad part though is that often all the high auhoritic people are either friends or family in most situations. Sometimes you wouldn't even need money but with people like that in your family the chance is big that you can just let your crime disappaer by yourself anyway. Problem of that however is that if this certain family does not like you and/or does not support your opinions you've no chance at all. They'll take your bribe money and add bribing to their list of crimes.

What? what ever your having send me some.

on a side note this will make you obama supporters happy.