Who'll be the better president?

[Bigjohn]

That's incorrect.
TAXES have a TON to do with it.
There is no such thing as Corporate Income Tax. All corporations exist for profit, and therefore they pass any and all taxes down to the end consumer of their goods or services.

All taxes are born by the consumer...

 

[CyberDruid]

But what about the Banks getting bought out by the guv? Doesn't that concern you rightwingers just a little? Or are you too blinded by the prospect of an Obama in office?

 

[erocker]

But what about the Banks getting bought out by the guv? Doesn't that concern you rightwingers just a little? Or are you too blinded by the prospect of an Obama in office?

It's quite disgusting as the government now owns thousands of people homes. Homes they couldn't afford in the first place. People have spent way beyond their means. There are all these big new houses around me where I live, half of them are for sale, some have people living in them with sparce furniture (God forbid any of these people buy used furniture). Vanity is taking our money away.

 

[mdm-adph]

That's incorrect.
TAXES have a TON to do with it.
There is no such thing as Corporate Income Tax. All corporations exist for profit, and therefore they pass any and all taxes down to the end consumer of their goods or services.

All taxes are born by the consumer...

Like I say, taxes have very little to do with it: Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes

Corporations in the US have the same rights as an individual, however this means they must undergo the same burdens as well -- there is a such thing as corporate income tax, however most corporations don't pay it at all.

The problem is with the American worker, but I don't doubt that many in American will never admit to that.

It's quite disgusting as the government now owns thousands of people homes. Homes they couldn't afford in the first place. People have spent way beyond their means. There are all these big new houses around me where I live, half of them are for sale, some have people living in them with sparce furniture (God forbid any of these people buy used furniture). Vanity is taking our money away.

Oh, haven't you heard -- they're buying the banks too. America's pretty much officially going socialist now. It's sad. :shadedshu

Edit: Didn't see cyberdruid's post up there. Guess the news is already out.

 

[trt740]

They are reporting on our news that Obama's campaign just admitted to giving a subsidiary of ACORN 900,000 dollars to help "get out the vote," and that a guy in Cleveland was just found registered to vote 15 times by ACORN. The Justice Department is investigating. Someone here said they worked on his campaign can you shed any light on this and is it true?

now they found another guy registered 75 times to vote by ACORN in Cleveland.

 

[CyberDruid]

That's an ancient tradition in Chicago...a lot of dead people vote in Chicago too....

 

[mlupple]

I'm voting for Obama because I believe in Change and Hope.

 

[Bigjohn]

I'm voting for Obama because I believe in Change and Hope.

HAHAHA

I hope he looses, and I dream of a change toward liberty!

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Like I say, taxes have very little to do with it: Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes

Corporations in the US have the same rights as an individual, however this means they must undergo the same burdens as well -- there is a such thing as corporate income tax, however most corporations don't pay it at all.

The problem is with the American worker, but I don't doubt that many in American will never admit to that.



Oh, haven't you heard -- they're buying the banks too. America's pretty much officially going socialist now. It's sad. :shadedshu

Edit: Didn't see cyberdruid's post up there. Guess the news is already out.

buying the banks and so on its not a socialist move. it is simply a move to save the economy of a state. Back on the 1930 economical crisys, lots of europe governments were forced to protect their banks and people by helping with financial aids. For example, fascists did it in Italy. And i dont think Fascists were socialists, were they? Protectionism is more a right handed politic than a lefthanded one

 

[mdm-adph]

HAHAHA

I hope he looses, and I dream of a change toward liberty!

"Liberty." You have that -- simply sell all your possessions, cut all ties to civlization, and live off the land. You'll have all the Liberty you can stand.

It worked for the guys in Atlas Shrugged, it can work for you too.

I encourage it -- be like John Galt. Leave those you don't like to whatever future they make.

If you're right, you'll reap the rewards in the end, won't you?

buying the banks and so on its not a socialist move. it is simply a move to save the economy of a state. Back on the 1930 economical crisys, lots of europe governments were forced to protect their banks and people by helping with financial aids. For example, fascists did it in Italy. And i dont think Fascists were socialists, were they? Protectionism is more a right handed politic than a lefthanded one

Facists were socialists -- national socialists. It's where the term "Nazi" comes from that the Germans used during that time.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

"Liberty." You have that -- simply sell all your possessions, cut all ties to civlization, and live off the land. You'll have all the Liberty you can stand.

It worked for the guys in Atlas Shrugged, it can work for you too.

I encourage it -- be like John Galt. Leave those you don't like to whatever future they make.

If you're right, you'll reap the rewards in the end, won't you?



Facists were socialists -- national socialists. It's where the term "Nazi" comes from that the Germans used during that time.

Fascists are different from nazists, man! They were allied but they had a completely different view of people and of rights... believe me i live in a country where fascists ruled for 20 years. And some Fascists are still part of the italian governament right now... so sad to say but true

 

[Bigjohn]

"Liberty." You have that -- simply sell all your possessions, cut all ties to civlization, and live off the land. You'll have all the Liberty you can stand.

It worked for the guys in Atlas Shrugged, it can work for you too.

I encourage it -- be like John Galt. Leave those you don't like to whatever future they make.

If you're right, you'll reap the rewards in the end, won't you?



Facists were socialists -- national socialists. It's where the term "Nazi" comes from that the Germans used during that time.

I'd prefer to KEEP my stuff, and protect it from other people. Making myself destitute is not "liberty"...

And you are correct... Mussolini was a socialist. Everything owned and controlled by the state... everything you had was at the whim of the state. Piss off a politician, find your self in the army...

 

[mdm-adph]

Fascists are different from nazists, man! They were allied but they had a completely different view of people and of rights... believe me i live in a country where fascists ruled for 20 years. And some Fascists are still part of the italian governament right now... so sad to say but true

True! You would know more about this than me. (I must admit that Mussolini wasn't a racist like Hitler was, either.)

They were good friends with the German National-socialists, though.

 

[mdm-adph]

I'd prefer to KEEP my stuff, and protect it from other people. Making myself destitute is not "liberty"...

Keep your stuff, then -- either way, time to head for the hills. I was just trying to save you the trouble of carrying your plasma-screen TV.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

I'd prefer to KEEP my stuff, and protect it from other people. Making myself destitute is not "liberty"...

And you are correct... Mussolini was a socialist. Everything owned and controlled by the state... everything you had was at the whim of the state. Piss off a politician, find your self in the army...

Mussolini started as a socialist and remained a socialist for something like 10 secs after he took power by force... his politics were AGAINST the people and in favour of industries and of his friends. he controlled everything, yeah. thats DICTATORSHIP, not socialism. Hope you see the difference.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

True! You would know more about this than me. (I must admit that Mussolini wasn't a racist like Hitler was, either.)

They were good friends with the German National-socialists, though.

thanks. they were good friends (from the political point of view) and both were racists as hell, as they were both two big pieces of shit. Their friendship derived from the fact that they both wanted to acquire more and more power. And they didnt have any scruples or remorses.

 

[magibeg]

I believe there is more of a balance to everything rather than straight capitolism or straight socialism. Going to a completely capitolist society leads to a massive gap between the rich and poor where the workers will go through slave like conditions and the owners will live like kings. You can see this happen in the gap between rich and poor whenever the US tilts its financial policies to cater more to capitolists. On the other hand socialism breaks everyone down to being completely equal regardless of how hard someone tries to work.

Basically what it comes down to is some sort of capitolism with some socialist regulation. I find it strange to see so many people picturing the economy so cut and dry. Bailing out the banks was a very socialist way of managing things for example.

 

[Rammsteiner]

He wants to socialize health care, business and tax the rich to make it "fair" for everyone. He sounds like a duck. He walks like a duck. He must be a socialist.
Show me how his policies are not.

Why should I bother if you obviously have no single clue what socialism means How low do you have to sink to compare him to a duck!? You could as well work for McCain's voting thingy, the same level of childishness.

I never said socializing is good (said this thousand times now), but he's not a damn socialist. If he's a socialist I could call McCain a nazi as well, makes as much sense.

So lets just all bend over and hope the terrorist forget they hate us.

You miss the point dude. You call terrorists what exactly? Killing your troops in Iraq? Killing your troops in Afghanistan? Muslims? People revenging on war crimes the US made? Most actions nowadays have a reason, you'd better think about that instead of 'z0mfg, the muslims shot our innocent soldiers'.

Lets put it this way, they hate you for a reason and if you wake up from your American Dream you clearly see why.

Such a deep comment. You must have been all around the world to see how the U.S. treats people. You couldn't possibly be making a shallow statement from your couch.

TBH, if I here people about "God's will" and "the devil", be it from my couch or not (btw, wake up, we've extremist christians here too) I know more than enough. Also Ive met more than enough American tourists to know what Im talking about regarding that.

Thats nice. I see your anti Israel too. I guess the fact they have never been hijacked is a mute point because you hate them and guns so facts don't apply.

I dont not say Im against guns anywhere? I do support air marshals with guns? And what has the fact that Im indeed pretty much anti-israel to do with your whole argument?

Hardly a policy. Its more of an instinct to survive. You maybe sick of living and blame everyone and all government but some of us wanna see tomorrow. Best way to do that is eliminate the people who don't want us to.

You really have this much of a plate in front of your head? The only threat is the US its self. Iran wouldnt have a single reason to attack the US, nor would N-Korea, especially not Russia and the war against Iraq was based on a crapload of lies. But because our lovely Bush sees a threat in them he's brainfarting around and treathening them with wars etc...

Also I dont see how you can use Darwin's theory in your argument since 75~90% of the American civilization is religious, get a clue:shadedshu

 

[ManofGod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjohn View Post
But you miss the point again.

It's not your right, or anyone elses, to determine if someone is living "well enough"....


You're entitled to your opinion, as long as you understand you're one of the few people who think that way.


mdm-adph, according to your assessment above about it being just his opinion, I think you live "well enough" then. (Of course, I cannot truly determine that but by your standard, I can and have the right too.)

In fact, how dare you make more money then me, I demand you send me any extra over and above what I think you need. Tough luck if you do not like that, it would not be my problem then.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Why should I bother if you obviously have no single clue what socialism means How low do you have to sink to compare him to a duck!? You could as well work for McCain's voting thingy, the same level of childishness.

I never said socializing is good (said this thousand times now), but he's not a damn socialist. If he's a socialist I could call McCain a nazi as well, makes as much sense.


You miss the point dude. You call terrorists what exactly? Killing your troops in Iraq? Killing your troops in Afghanistan? Muslims? People revenging on war crimes the US made? Most actions nowadays have a reason, you'd better think about that instead of 'z0mfg, the muslims shot our innocent soldiers'.

Lets put it this way, they hate you for a reason and if you wake up from your American Dream you clearly see why.


TBH, if I here people about "God's will" and "the devil", be it from my couch or not (btw, wake up, we've extremist christians here too) I know more than enough. Also Ive met more than enough American tourists to know what Im talking about regarding that.


I dont not say Im against guns anywhere? I do support air marshals with guns? And what has the fact that Im indeed pretty much anti-israel to do with your whole argument?


You really have this much of a plate in front of your head? The only threat is the US its self. Iran wouldnt have a single reason to attack the US, nor would N-Korea, especially not Russia and the war against Iraq was based on a crapload of lies. But because our lovely Bush sees a threat in them he's brainfarting around and treathening them with wars etc...

Also I dont see how you can use Darwin's theory in your argument since 75~90% of the American civilization is religious, get a clue:shadedshu

i do agree with you on all the points... i just thought that such a post didnt deserve any answer...

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjohn View Post
But you miss the point again.

It's not your right, or anyone elses, to determine if someone is living "well enough"....


You're entitled to your opinion, as long as you understand you're one of the few people who think that way.


mdm-adph, according to your assessment above about it being just his opinion, I think you live "well enough" then. (Of course, I cannot truly determine that but by your standard, I can and have the right too.)

In fact, how dare you make more money then me, I demand you send me any extra over and above what I think you need. Tough luck if you do not like that, it would not be my problem then.

selfish selfish selfish! Be selfish americans! Hate the others and earn money as much as you can, you'll be happy and you will be considered a person who deserves respect!

 

[ManofGod]

selfish selfish selfish! Be selfish americans! Hate the others and earn money as much as you can, you'll be happy and you will be considered a person who deserves respect!

Out of context, out of context, out of context, why am I not surprised.

 

[mdm-adph]

mdm-adph, according to your assessment above about it being just his opinion, I think you live "well enough" then. (Of course, I cannot truly determine that but by your standard, I can and have the right too.)

In fact, how dare you make more money then me, I demand you send me any extra over and above what I think you need. Tough luck if you do not like that, it would not be my problem then.

You, too, are entitled to think whatever you want. If you want to think I make more money than you, feel free. I could be a ditch digger, or I could be the CFO of Boeing.

I could pick fruit in Georgia, or I could be your grandparent's CPA. Whatever makes you happy. It doesn't matter on the Internet.

Everyone needs to give more, whether you are poor or rich. Bigjohn posted a link to FairTax.org a while back, and I said I like that idea -- or did you skip over that part?

 

[ManofGod]

You, too, are entitled to think whatever you want. If you want to think I make more money than you, feel free. I could be a ditch digger, or I could be the CFO of Boeing.

I could pick fruit in Georgia, or I could be your grandparent's CPA. Whatever makes you happy. It doesn't matter on the Internet.

Everyone needs to give more, whether you are poor or rich. Bigjohn posted a link to FairTax.org a while back, and I said I like that idea -- or did you skip over that part?

As long as fairtax is everyone paying the same percentage, I could deal with that. However, there are certain taxes in this country are unconstitutional. Also, if the constitution is open to interpretation, then it means nothing at all.

Wait, so are you saying I can take whatever money I want from you as long as the government says it is ok?

 

[mdm-adph]

As long as fairtax is everyone paying the same percentage, I could deal with that. However, there are certain taxes in this country are unconstitutional. Also, if the constitution is open to interpretation, then it means nothing at all.

Wait, so are you saying I can take whatever money I want from you as long as the government says it is ok?

No, I'm saying that the government could take from me the same exact amount that it takes from you (percentage wise, of course).

I agree with you about many taxes being unconstitutional -- a fair tax seeks to fix a lot of that.

And the US Constitution will always be open to constitution, sadly enough -- the Founding Fathers of America weren't near explicit enough. :shadedshu

I wish I could go back in time and slap them around: "Stop using flowery language! Don't use words like 'arms' unless you're talking about the human body! Be explicit -- say 'devices of personal protection, such as those available to the militia and military.'"