Who'll be the better president?

[btarunr]

Please try not being confrontational when discussing things.

 

[Triprift]

Lol calm down bj ill make ya a cup tea dang your getting serious calling wl a liberal just cus he doesnt agree with your point of view just face it were all individuals.

 

[v-zero]

Yeha... after last nights 30 minute cool-aide dip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghlzS23q3s8

God damn Americans and their fake polotics - ridiculous.

 

[TheMailMan78]

That exception doesn't apply to the second debate. (Even at the end, McCain somehow managed to shake Obama's hand without looking at him. Amazing.)

McCain's health should worry anybody. Seriously -- first I hear John McCain can't use a computer because of injuries. Now, he can't look at someone because of injuries.

This guy sounds like he's getting worse by the second -- at what point will an injury come up that will be blamed for him losing the election? Are Americans going to have to put up with being called "injury-prejudiced" for the next few months if McCain doesn't win?

Apparently you don't watch the news much. Ever heard of the Al Smith Dinner? I mean look how disrespectful they are being to each other!

FYI notice McCain turning his whole body?

Oh and here look at this! I mean McCain and Obama are hugging! Clearly they dont respect each other.

Dude Obama isn't a Saviour anymore than McCain is a Traitor. They both are cut from the same cloth. They both want power. Both are professional politicians and have no clue as to whats happening in this country. So with this being said Ill vote for the man who has served his country for longer and harder than the other. Not that Obama is a bad guy but look at the shape his state is in compared to McCains Arizona. That should tell you enough to have a little more faith in McCain and KNOW just because he's a republican doesn't make him inherently evil.

At the end of the day they ALL lie. We just have to pick the one that lies the least.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

What needs? no, seriously what needs are these?

The ability to intercept incoming short, medium, and long range missiles. And hey, if somone in Europe were to lob a missile at Russia, that site in Poland is capable of intercepting it.


Canada has more land but the land is less useful (in terms of supporting a civilization). USA's land is mostly temperate climate and fertile. Canada has a lot of mountainous terrain and spotted lakes. A lot of the land in the Northern Territories is barren tundra. Canada (Northern Territories) and Russia (Siberia) both have more land than USA but a massive percentage of both is not productive land. In terms of productive land, China is more competitive with USA than Canada and Russia. But, we have an edge on China too having far more advanced farming technology.

A country is really only as prosperous as the land it is founded on. Almost every war in human history was connected to expanding territory claims. :X

 

[WhiteLotus]

Lol calm down bj ill make ya a cup tea dang your getting serious calling wl a liberal just cus he doesnt agree with your point of view just face it were all individuals.

It's fine he can say what he wants to within reason, water of a ducks back for me; and anyway i am a bit of a liberal

As an outsider who thankfully can not vote - but if i could, i would vote Obama.

The USA needs change and Obama is going the right way, maybe not on the best route, but at least he is going the right way.

The ability to intercept incoming short, medium, and long range missiles. And hey, if somone in Europe were to lob a missile at Russia, that site in Poland is capable of intercepting it.

Oh yea right, because you wish to defend Russia from Europe - who could quite eaily crush half of europe within a couple of days. Yea no one is going to do that. The defence circle is a farce - just to put pressure on Russia because the USA hasn't grown up and realised just how much Russia has changed. The USA is too set in it's ways, again i'd vote Obama to get some change.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Oh yea right, because you wish to defend Russia from Europe - who could quite eaily crush half of europe within a couple of days. Yea no one is going to do that. The defence circle is a farce - just to put pressure on Russia because the USA hasn't grown up and realised just how much Russia has changed. The USA is too set in it's ways, again i'd vote Obama to get some change.

Russia doesn't need to be defended by anyone but Russia. But let me tell you something about "Russia vs. Europe". Your a fool if you think any one country could walk over Europe that easy. France, Germany and the UK have some of the most advance weapon systems in the world. They also have some of the best trained soldiers. There is an old American saying that applies to Europe in this scenario.

"Always outnumbered but never out gunned."

Your attitude towards your own country is a MAJOR difference between a lot of Americans and Russians. We worship our protectors. We are honored to serve with our brothers and sisters side by side, back to back. I find it sad you do not have faith in yours. I truly hope you are the minority in the UK. Your own countries power is beyond anything is was during the world wars and you guys did fine then. Obama and McCain do not matter. Have faith in your own.

 

[WhiteLotus]

Russia doesn't need to be defended by anyone but Russia. But let me tell you something about "Russia vs. Europe". Your a fool if you think any one country could walk over Europe that easy. France, Germany and the UK have some of the most advance weapon systems in the world. They also have some of the best trained soldiers. There is an old American saying that applies to Europe in this scenario.

"Always outnumbered but never out gunned."

Your attitude towards your own country is a MAJOR difference between a lot of Americans and Russians. We worship our protectors. We are honored to serve with our brothers and sisters side by side, back to back. I find it sad you do not have faith in yours. I truly hope you are the minority in the UK. Your own countries power is beyond anything is was during the world wars and you guys did fine then. Obama and McCain do not matter. Have faith in your own.

Yea I am aware of the powers that Europe can pull up on - and believe me when I know that the UK has been through hell and back numerous times in it's long history of naval and land warfare - we used to rule the seas after all and now we have the challenger mk II tank that pretty much is the best out there, and we have the SAS which is THE best elite forces in the world imo. I am thoroughly thankful for the forces that fight in a war for our Queen - i myself wanted to join the RAF, but for medical reasons i was refused. You can not argue that Russia is just a brute and it's a good thing that it hasn't had a reason to show it (excluding the recent Georgian skirmish) but it doesn't mean it needs to be watched 24/7 and have a big stick ready to whack it when it might step out of line

And anyway - over here we too have a saying:

"American soldiers, all the kit, brains of shit"

Don't take that offensive what people do to fight a battle is something that takes a lot of balls.

My boss at work used to be in Navy and served on numerous nuclear subs, and the stories he has of doing all the work is mind boggling and makes me proud that the USA relies on the UK armed forces for so much around these parts of the world.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Hey SK-1. thanks for that milex data site.

Bahrain (rich oil country) uses 4-5% of its GDP on defense.

USA uses 4-5% on defense

Canada uses 1-2%... why? because of the great relationship with the HUGE country to their south .....

And they still manage to train excellent soldiers.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Oh yea right, because you wish to defend Russia from Europe - who could quite eaily crush half of europe within a couple of days. Yea no one is going to do that. The defence circle is a farce - just to put pressure on Russia because the USA hasn't grown up and realised just how much Russia has changed. The USA is too set in it's ways, again i'd vote Obama to get some change.

Defensive positions prevent wars. If a former War Pact state is stupid enough to kick Russia in the shin by launching a missile, we could intercept it and get them both to the table for talks. If it is not intercepted, an all out war is destined.


I scored center of Liberitarian but generally hate what Liberitarians say (contradiction, I know):

If I were to guess where I would be, it would be here or a little more to the right:

 

[WhiteLotus]

that's actually very interesting to know to be honest i would have thought you were around (80,30) on the right conservative box

 

[laszlo]

He is smarter than GW Bush(who isn't),.

remember what he said?

"a fool can't be fooled again"

 

[TheMailMan78]

Yea I am aware of the powers that Europe can pull up on - and believe me when I know that the UK has been through hell and back numerous times in it's long history of naval and land warfare - we used to rule the seas after all and now we have the challenger mk II tank that pretty much is the best out there, and we have the SAS which is THE best elite forces in the world imo. I am thoroughly thankful for the forces that fight in a war for our Queen - i myself wanted to join the RAF, but for medical reasons i was refused. You can not argue that Russia is just a brute and it's a good thing that it hasn't had a reason to show it (excluding the recent Georgian skirmish) but it doesn't mean it needs to be watched 24/7 and have a big stick ready to whack it when it might step out of line

And anyway - over here we too have a saying:

"American soldiers, all the kit, brains of shit"

Don't take that offensive what people do to fight a battle is something that takes a lot of balls.

My boss at work used to be in Navy and served on numerous nuclear subs, and the stories he has of doing all the work is mind boggling and makes me proud that the USA relies on the UK armed forces for so much around these parts of the world.

"American soldiers, all the kit, brains of shit" huh? Your grandfather didn't have that perspective when he was PRAYING we would jump in and help him. How could I not take offense to that saying? The American soldier is one of the most respected soldiers among the worlds militaries. I know this from first hand experience. Even the Taliban exclaimed their respect for our soldiers. You might think differently if you were on the receiving end out our "brains of shit" soldiers on the offensive.

As for Russia being a brute and taking Europe by force again don't be blinded by intimidation and or size. The Afghan rebels kicked the shit out of Russia in the 80s and they didn't have a 16th of what your own military has. Brute fighting never works. Smart fighting always does.

 

[WhiteLotus]

"American soldiers, all the kit, brains of shit" huh? Your grandfather didn't have that perspective when he was PRAYING we would jump in and help him. How could I not take offense to that saying? The American soldier is one of the most respected soldiers among the worlds militaries. I know this from first hand experience. Even the Taliban exclaimed their respect for our soldiers. You might think differently if you were on the receiving end out our "brains of shit" soldiers on the offensive.

As for Russia being a brute and taking Europe by force again don't be blinded by intimidation and or size. The Afghan rebels kicked the shit out of Russia in the 80s and they didn't have a 16th of what your own military has. Brute fighting never works. Smart fighting always does.

It's mainly a saying that has derived via the amount of blue on blue that happened throughout the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, that's all. It has left a bitter taste in many of the UK population

 

[TheMailMan78]

FYI heres my score

 

[FordGT90Concept]

...and now we have the challenger mk II tank that pretty much is the best out there

Don't forget the German Leopard 2, Israeli Merkava, French Leclerc, and the USA Abrams. Personally, my money is on the M1A2 because it is a battle-hardened platform with battle-hardened crews. It's also the only one to have an engine stolen from a helicopter. XD

It's mainly a saying that has derived via the amount of blue on blue that happened throughout the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, that's all. It has left a bitter taste in many of the UK population

It happens a lot when you are blowing up stuff from miles away. Often anymore, we can't visually verify the target.

Still, a lot of money is going into research to prevent future friendly fire incidents.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Don't forget the German Leopard 2, Israeli Merkava, French Leclerc, and the USA Abrams. Personally, my money is on the M1A2 because it is a battle-hardened platform with battle-hardened crews. It's also the only one to have an engine stolen from a helicopter. XD

But the Challenger II is better and it too is "Battle Hardened" as you say.

Actually I was kidding.....there is nothing between the 2 of them, both (along with the Leopard 2) are the very best at delivering 120mm of pure pain.

 

[Bigjohn]

But the Challenger II is better and it too is "Battle Hardened" as you say.

Debating military hardware... now that's thread in and of itself...

I take no offense from a saying like "all the kit, brains of shit".. Hell, we toss those around all the time - like the old joke - What did the french man say when the germans walked into paris? "Will 'zat be table for ten thozand"?

How would the USA take over france? Send in the girl scouts...

Stuff like that...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

But the Challenger II is better...

Not enough information to prove that.

and it too is "Battle Hardened" as you say.

10 years versus 25 years of deployment.

"Battled tested," not "battle hardened."

424 tanks versus well over 5000.

Seriously, those are long odds especially considering A-10s, Apaches, and B-1/B-52 (CBU-97 Sensor Fused Weapon) would make quick work of those 424 tanks well before any M1s even hit the ground. Should an M1A2 go toe to toe with a Challenger II, I suspect it would end in a draw. They would both disable but not destroy each other.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Debating military hardware... now that's thread in and of itself...

I take no offense from a saying like "all the kit, brains of shit".. Hell, we toss those around all the time - like the old joke - What did the french man say when the germans walked into paris? "Will 'zat be table for ten thozand"?

I edited my quote before you posted

 

[Bigjohn]

I edited my quote before you posted

ha!
I was editing mine too.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Not enough information to prove that.



10 years versus 25 years of deployment.

"Battled tested," not "battle hardened."

424 tanks versus well over 5000.

Seriously, those are long odds especially considering A-10s, Apaches, and B-1/B-52 (CBU-97 Sensor Fused Weapon) would make quick work of those 424 tanks well before any M1s even hit the ground. Should an M1A2 go toe to toe with a Challenger II, I suspect it would end in a draw. They would both disable but not destroy each other.

Seriously they are not long odds, just look at it this way, the British Army has been in more direct conflicts than the US in the last 30 years, and in the last 10, just about the same so whether you are testing 20% of your tanks in Iraq at the same time as we are testing 20% of ours it boils down to pretty similar in reality.

I also edited the origional before you posted, or before I saw yours, there is actually nothing between them, there are variances, rifled bore....smooth bore....engines....armour type etc, all in all though pretty equal, can depend on the role somewhat, I have spent time in both, not as crew though so I am no expert on the "handling" of the 2.

 

[Bigjohn]

Seriously they are not long odds, just look at it this way, the British Army has been in more direct conflicts than the US in the last 30 years, and in the last 10, just about the same so whether you are testing 20% of your tanks in Iraq at the same time as we are testing 20% of ours it boils down to pretty similar in reality.

I also edited the origional before you posted, or before I saw yours, there is actually nothing between them, there are variances, rifled bore....smooth bore....engines....armour type etc, all in all though pretty equal, can depend on the role somewhat, I have spent time in both, not as crew though so I am no expert on the "handling" of the 2.

and, of course, this is all beyond hyperbole..... the US vs the UK is, well, a 232 year old dustup that pretty much ended in a very nice friendship. And you guys over there on that tiny island nation make MUCH better beer, for the most part...

 

[das müffin mann]

Nope.

then this is like arguing with a brick wall
im done with this thread, it's going no where
have fun guys im out

 

[Bigjohn]

then this is like arguing with a brick wall
im done with this thread, it's going no where
have fun guys im out

See you later. Thanks for playing.

A disillusioned democratic speech writer...!