Does the economic crisis affect you?

[mikek75]

Through greed and selfishness, these BANKS screwed up our economy.

When you have your Financial Industry giving itself 18billion in bonuses despite the way the economy was headed, how can you defend it?

Yes, people are dumb. But, you have a whole advertising industry and media all pushing a certain way of life people forget the realities. But then that is its whole purpose.

 

[erocker]

Agreed..... Fully!

If you cannot take responsibility for your own money, its "your" problem.

Granted, I do feel for the ones that got things going in a way they should have not had any issues and got stung by a large layoff or something to that effect.

But these people who were like ya I'll take my variable rate loan on a house that the payment is 60% of what I make a month... TFB.

Yes, and no one get me wrong I feel horrible for those being affected by this. I have some freinds and family who have lost their jobs because of the fallout from this. It sucks but we can rebound. Most of our manufacturing jobs in the US are gone and the working class people are suffering. Many would say that the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer while the middle class is dissapearing. That is deffinitely the case however I think that what is happening right now is the catalyst for change. (No Obama pun intended) A healthy country needs manufacturing (the making of products) for the country to survive. The United States is learning that lesson right now. Yes, this is a bad thing and many of the old manufacturing jobs are now being held by other countries that are progressing. Those jobs are gone and most likely will never return to the US, so what to do now? Well, no matter what there is always a demand for both products (necessities or otherwise) and jobs. With the lesson learned of what is happening right now, more and more will become educated in how to do things right. New ideas in manufacturing, finding a niche in popular markets modernizing and supplying demand are all things that will spawn from this economic depression and it will create new jobs. From their it's all a domino effect upwards just like the past year or so was a domino effect downwards. All it takes is the willingness to succeed, enguity, education and a little desperation and it starts with regular people using their brains and understanding the importance of their own money and resources.

When you have your Financial Industry giving itself 18billion in bonuses despite the way the economy was headed, how can you defend it?

Yes, people are dumb. But, you have a whole advertising industry and media all pushing a certain way of life people forget the realities. But then that is its whole purpose.

Where exactly did I defend banks? I guaranty you that those bonuses wouldn't be as big if people knew how to take care of their own money. I agree with you that these banks and their management most deffinitely need to be held accountable. Though, it's peoples willingness to treat their money like it was nothing that started this mess.

 

[FatForester]

I didn't feel the economic crisis too much until I started looking at engineering co-op opportunities. Last semester I interviewed with 7 different companies and out of the 4 I had an interest in, all of them suffered lay-offs and hiring freezes to where I couldn't get a job. This semester there are only 3 companies for Aerospace coming to campus, 2 of which are considering hiring freezes.

My roommate luckily got a co-op with Denso this semester, and they've had hourly cuts to 32 hours a week instead of 40. It's better than being laid off, but it's still pretty bad considering Denso supplies Toyota with nearly all of their parts. Oh well, it definitely looks like I won't be upgrading my computer any time soon.

So... do any of you have some money I can borrow? Say, around... $819 billion dollars?

 

[mdm-adph]

Where exactly did I defend banks? I guaranty you that those bonuses wouldn't be as big if people knew how to take care of their own money. I agree with you that these banks and their management most deffinitely need to be held accountable. Though, it's peoples willingness to treat their money like it was nothing that started this mess.

Oh no -- those bonuses would be just as big, trust me -- they just wouldn't be going out to so many people.

Looks like one US Senator has woken up and decided to fix that -- and look, it's a Democrat. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/30/executive.pay/index.html

 

[Wetbehindtheears]

I have to agree with erocker - a lot of this is down to ourselves, I know, I've spent the last last 3 years repaying my cock-ups (credit cards, bank loans, conniving ex, etc!!) Hopefully it'll be all sorted by June (God willing)

I watched an interesting program (Panorama I think) that said the main blame was on the investment brokers (speculators?) that bumped up the price of oil, gas and foodstuffs whilst America was having it's housing meltdown (or something like that) which made this recession even worse.

Shell has just posted record profits (again) but the price of petrol/gas etc hasn't come down accordingly. We've also bailed out the Banks and what are they still doing - screwing the end user and giving themselves fat bonuses!!

The fat cats WILL ALWAYS get fatter!!

The general populous WILL ALWAYS get royally screwed sideways!!

 

[thoughtdisorder]

thanks God, there is still someone from America that doesn't think everything happens only in the USA

You have my thanks as well my new friend. I lived abroad in Europe and other area's overseas for several years. I used to cringe at the arrogance that Americans exuded openly. In the back of my mind I was always thinking that America should pay close attention to all other countries. America is still very young compared to the rest of the world. Pay attention to history, and avoid future atrocities.Simple really. Unless you're a cock sure arrogant schmuck and you only care about yourself. <Rant Over> /:

 

[Haytch]

Im effected. IM INFECTED!

 

[r9]

A lot of companies are using this crisis to layoff people.
Many companies were loosing production and in a need of letting off people.
Before when they were to layoff somebody that had to explain why now they just state it is the crisis and that is it.
And layoffs are happening years before.This is not happening in a day, now we don`t have a crisis and now we have. +1 to all erocer posts.
And that is not all it is how whole world works. Kaka was offered 150 milion eur or so to make transfer to Man City and week pay of around 400 000 eur. That is nuts. I cant calculate in my country how many lives you have to live to earn that kind of money.
And media is scaring people and even ones that are not affected are scared and are not spending money and economy is circle every body are spending every body are earning.

 

[proletariandan]

You have my thanks as well my new friend. I lived abroad in Europe and other area's overseas for several years. I used to cringe at the arrogance that Americans exuded openly. In the back of my mind I was always thinking that America should pay close attention to all other countries. America is still very young compared to the rest of the world. Pay attention to history, and avoid future atrocities.Simple really. Unless you're a cock sure arrogant schmuck and you only care about yourself. <Rant Over> /:

Most Americans are dangerously closed-minded, partly due to the power and size of our economy but also due to the intoxicating effect of empire. One example is one of my instructors this semester who is actually a sitting Illinois State Senator; I brought up the idea of single-payer healthcare and how Europe, Japan, Taiwan, and even Cuba have much more effective and efficient healthcare systems than we do. He had no idea what I was talking about on any level at all...I was shocked. I also brought up the idea of publicly funded elections, which he was staunchly opposed to even as he was in the process of impeaching our Governor, as a solution to the rampant corruption, influence, and pervasiveness of the capitalist class in US politics.

 

[NastyHabits]

thanks God, there is still someone from America that doesnt think everything happens only in the USA

Yeah, but we (the USA) started it.

As for those who think that somehow the "Media" is to blame, you're wrong. This is very real, it's very big, and it's global. Everyone is going to feel this and it's going to last a long, long time. If anything, the media is under reporting just how bad things are.

Some think that somehow "we" are to blame by overspending. While it's a contributing factor, it's small potatoes. Wall Street's overspending was on a scale that is barely imaginable. Firms like Goldman Sachs were "leveraged" between 30 and 40 to one! And this was for HUGE amounts of money.

Our financial system is based on faith and credit. Faith that if I lend you money, you will repay. That faith was shattered, worldwide, when Lehman Brothers collapsed. It's one thing when you and I stop spending, it's another when every bank in the world stops lending.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We have large ports at Oakland and Richmond. They are all but dead. In Richmond you normally see Kias being loaded on huge freight trains. This goes on 24/7, 365. There are no cars being driven on freight trains now. I'm sure this is going on in Hong Kong, Rotterdam and Liverpool as well. When huge chain stores close their doors, factories all across China shut their's.

Does this mean the end of Capitalism? I seriously doubt it. Is this the end of unfettered, laissez-faire Capitalism? I certainly hope so. Human beings' unfortunately natural tendency towards greed creates a need to protect the well being of the many from the excesses of the few.

Regardless who or what is at fault, things are only beginning to get bad. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Save your cardboard, you'll need it for housing.

 

[mtosev]

The japanese are worried. 90% of the stuff they make they export. The USA and Europe are their biggest trade markets.

 

[proletariandan]

Yeah, but we (the USA) started it.

As for those who think that somehow the "Media" is to blame, you're wrong. This is very real, it's very big, and it's global. Everyone is going to feel this and it's going to last a long, long time. If anything, the media is under reporting just how bad things are.

Some think that somehow "we" are to blame by overspending. While it's a contributing factor, it's small potatoes. Wall Street's overspending was on a scale that is barely imaginable. Firms like Goldman Sachs were "leveraged" between 30 and 40 to one! And this was for HUGE amounts of money.

Our financial system is based on faith and credit. Faith that if I lend you money, you will repay. That faith was shattered, worldwide, when Lehman Brothers collapsed. It's one thing when you and I stop spending, it's another when every bank in the world stops lending.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We have large ports at Oakland and Richmond. They are all but dead. In Richmond you normally see Kias being loaded on huge freight trains. This goes on 24/7, 365. There are no cars being driven on freight trains now. I'm sure this is going on in Hong Kong, Rotterdam and Liverpool as well. When huge chain stores close their doors, factories all across China shut their's.

Does this mean the end of Capitalism? I seriously doubt it. Is this the end of unfettered, laissez-faire Capitalism? I certainly hope so. Human beings' unfortunately natural tendency towards greed creates a need to protect the well being of the many from the excesses of the few.

Regardless who or what is at fault, things are only beginning to get bad. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Save your cardboard, you'll need it for housing.

+1 on everything, although I do hope this will lead to the end of what we call capitalism and that we can move beyond European-style social-democracy to a completely democratic economy.

PS. Nice wagon...mine is nearly identical.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Yeah, but we (the USA) started it.

As for those who think that somehow the "Media" is to blame, you're wrong. This is very real, it's very big, and it's global. Everyone is going to feel this and it's going to last a long, long time. If anything, the media is under reporting just how bad things are.

Some think that somehow "we" are to blame by overspending. While it's a contributing factor, it's small potatoes. Wall Street's overspending was on a scale that is barely imaginable. Firms like Goldman Sachs were "leveraged" between 30 and 40 to one! And this was for HUGE amounts of money.

Our financial system is based on faith and credit. Faith that if I lend you money, you will repay. That faith was shattered, worldwide, when Lehman Brothers collapsed. It's one thing when you and I stop spending, it's another when every bank in the world stops lending.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We have large ports at Oakland and Richmond. They are all but dead. In Richmond you normally see Kias being loaded on huge freight trains. This goes on 24/7, 365. There are no cars being driven on freight trains now. I'm sure this is going on in Hong Kong, Rotterdam and Liverpool as well. When huge chain stores close their doors, factories all across China shut their's.

Does this mean the end of Capitalism? I seriously doubt it. Is this the end of unfettered, laissez-faire Capitalism? I certainly hope so. Human beings' unfortunately natural tendency towards greed creates a need to protect the well being of the many from the excesses of the few.

Regardless who or what is at fault, things are only beginning to get bad. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Save your cardboard, you'll need it for housing.

I know its horrible out there. I mean I just stood in line for hours to get soup. Just like my grandfather did in the 30's. Oh wait....no I didn't.

I wonder how some of you crybabies would act if something major did happen. I mean we were all living high on the hog for a while and we hit one little bump in the road and y'all are crying the sky is falling. Socialism has no place in the U.S. and anyone that wants it should be held for treason.

 

[WhiteLotus]

I know its horrible out there. I mean I just stood in line for hours to get soup. Just like my grandfather did in the 30's. Oh wait....no I didn't.

I wonder how some of you crybabies would act if something major did happen. I mean we were all living high on the hog for a while and we hit one little bump in the road and y'all are crying the sky is falling. Socialism has no place in the U.S. and anyone that wants it should be held for treason.

I agree with you Mailman - although i am unsure on what. This economic predicament may have started in the USA, but none of the other countries tried to do anything about it until the media cottoned on. In the UK about 3 months ago the media was screaming that the UK was in a recession even though by definition in the UK you need 2-3 quarters of successive reduction in GDP to be in a recession - which has now happened...

Self fulfilling prophecy anyone?

 

[proletariandan]

I know its horrible out there. I mean I just stood in line for hours to get soup. Just like my grandfather did in the 30's. Oh wait....no I didn't.

I wonder how some of you crybabies would act if something major did happen. I mean we were all living high on the hog for a while and we hit one little bump in the road and y'all are crying the sky is falling. Socialism has no place in the U.S. and anyone that wants it should be held for treason.

This is just the tip of the iceberg according to most economists with a brain. I'm sure there are a few deluded Friedmanites still thinking that taxcuts and monetary policy (return to the gold standard, anyone?) can fix this but everybody else is coming around to what more radical economists have been saying for years. The foundations of the US economy, both figurative and literal, are crumbling. From an international viewpoint, we've been consuming far more than we produce for years, and that is a party that had to end at some point. The reason that China, Japan, et al. have kept lending us money was because of the pretty house-of-cards that was our imaginary financialized economy. We can fix things but its going to necessarily mean a more logical, democratic, equal sociopolitical economy if it is going to be done.

We've had socialism for the rich for most of this century, its time for some real socialism for working people. Treason? Go back to listening to Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

PS. Nastyhabits - you can't receive PMs for some reason, left a visitor message and email.

 

[MohawkAngel]

I feel i'm having little more money than usual. I'm the type of guy to keep all my old stuff and get a pile of junk parts for old computers. In this difficult time people have less money to buy new stuff not only computer parts but in general. So they are seeking to prolong the useful life of their stuff then here my old computer parts come in play. I sell it to people who dont have lot of money. I almost sold everything and made a 250$ so i was able to upgrade my computer by changing the motherboard, getting 4 gigs or ddr2800, a new computer case and a video card.

 

[TheMailMan78]

This is just the tip of the iceberg according to most economists with a brain. I'm sure there are a few deluded Friedmanites still thinking that taxcuts and monetary policy (return to the gold standard, anyone?) can fix this but everybody else is coming around to what more radical economists have been saying for years. The foundations of the US economy, both figurative and literal, are crumbling. From an international viewpoint, we've been consuming far more than we produce for years, and that is a party that had to end at some point. The reason that China, Japan, et al. have kept lending us money was because of the pretty house-of-cards that was our imaginary financialized economy. We can fix things but its going to necessarily mean a more logical, democratic, equal sociopolitical economy if it is going to be done.

We've had socialism for the rich for most of this century, its time for some real socialism for working people. Treason? Go back to listening to Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

PS. Nastyhabits - you can't receive PMs for some reason, left a visitor message and email.

So lets see. I don't agree with you so I must be some kind of right-wing nut job? You far left socialist are worse than born again Christians and their rhetoric. Did it ever occur to you I might have some first hand knowledge socialism? Maybe Iv seen it in action and not just read about the "la la land" in books? You really are clueless about the global situation and most "isms" in general.

Hell just come to Miami and sit down with some of these old Cuban men that were in the "Bay of Pigs" and see what they think about your little books and "ideals". Let people who survived death camps in the name of the "people" tell you how socialism works. When they are done Ill tell you what I'v seen and lets see if your little heros like Che would agree.

 

[NastyHabits]

Let people who survived death camps in the name of the "people" tell you how socialism works.

Let's see. All those death camps in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Norway. Yeah, real socialist hells.

Dictatorship is the problem in Cuba, not socialism. Dictatorships of the right and the left suppress dissent with prison and death. People died under Pinochet. A socialist? No. Thousands "disappeared" in Argentina under a right-wing dictatorship. Tyranny is tyranny. It has nothing to do with the "ism" it hides behind.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Let's see. All those death camps in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Norway. Yeah, real socialist hells.

Dictatorship is the problem in Cuba, not socialism. Dictatorships of the right and the left suppress dissent with prison and death. People died under Pinochet. A socialist? No. Thousands "disappeared" in Argentina under a right-wing dictatorship. Tyranny is tyranny. It has nothing to do with the "ism" it hides behind.

Ok so why don't you move to Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, or Norway? Instead of trying to take money from hard working Americans? Seems simple.

Anyway none of the countries you listed have the population, mass, or ethnic diversity of the U.S. Socialism in the U.S. will end up in dictatorship or worse. Civil war. This to me equals treason to anyone who brings it to these shores. Capitalism has worked for us for 200 years and now since we had a little trouble you want to rewrite our history. Capitalism and the democratic process make tyranny impossible.

 

[Deleted member 3]

Ok so why don't you move to Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, or Norway? Instead of trying to take money from hard working Americans? Seems simple.

Anyway none of the countries you listed have the population, mass, or ethnic diversity of the U.S.

Indeed, no ethnic diversity here

 

[inf3rno]

Directly or Indirectly everyone of us is getting effected by the economic crisis though some of us can not feel that coming. Now its upon our leaders how they handle the situation? Because we elected them. If they are bad we are at fault.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Indeed, no ethnic diversity here

Dan I know you guys are VERY diverse but your country does not have the history our ethnic groups do. Our entire country is made up of immigrants of oppression. They came here or were forced here. Its honestly a great country thats been built off of pain.

Granted diversity may not be the best description but comparing our two nations isn't apples to apples.

 

[btarunr]

Granted diversity may not be the best description but comparing our two nations isn't apples to apples.

It is, since the immigrants in the Netherlands moved in for the same reasons as those who moved into the US: better opportunity (excluding African American/Chinese migration as slaves/forced labour to the Americas).

 

[proletariandan]

So lets see. I don't agree with you so I must be some kind of right-wing nut job? You far left socialist are worse than born again Christians and their rhetoric. Did it ever occur to you I might have some first hand knowledge socialism? Maybe Iv seen it in action and not just read about the "la la land" in books? You really are clueless about the global situation and most "isms" in general.

Hell just come to Miami and sit down with some of these old Cuban men that were in the "Bay of Pigs" and see what they think about your little books and "ideals". Let people who survived death camps in the name of the "people" tell you how socialism works. When they are done Ill tell you what I'v seen and lets see if your little heros like Che would agree.

Ask a campesino or factory worker from the 60's through the 80's (and likely up to today) whether he would rather live in Cuba or Colombia, Peru, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. and you tell me what you honestly think the answer would be. If you ask the bourgeoisie you'll obviously get the answer you're looking for. Cuba is not the shining example of democratic socialism that I'd like it to be but they've done a hell of a job building the best education, healthcare, environmental, and biotech programs in Latin America and most of the third world with few resources and under siege from the US. Now democratically elected leaders from Chavez to Lula and soon the FMLN are all cozying up to Cuba.

Edit. The Bay of Pigs was nothing more than an attempt (failed, thankfully) to turn Cuba into a second Guatemala by overthrowing a popular government and replacing it with a US-friendly military dictatorship that would ruthlessly massacre its people.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Ask a campesino or factory worker from the 60's through the 80's (and likely up to today) whether he would rather live in Cuba or Colombia, Peru, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. and you tell me what you honestly think the answer would be. If you ask the bourgeoisie you'll obviously get the answer you're looking for. Cuba is not the shining example of democratic socialism that I'd like it to be but they've done a hell of a job building the best education, healthcare, environmental, and biotech programs in Latin America and most of the third world with few resources and under siege from the US. Now democratically elected leaders from Chavez to Lula and soon the FMLN are all cozying up to Cuba.

Edit. The Bay of Pigs was nothing more than an attempt (failed, thankfully) to turn Cuba into a second Guatemala by overthrowing a popular government and replacing it with a US-friendly military dictatorship that would ruthlessly massacre its people.

So the old Cubans that survived the bay of pigs would have ruthlessly massacred their own people?!? Ill ask one at lunch. He works in our accounting.

FYI I'm from Miami. I work with Cubans or Colombians, Peruvians, Salvadorians, Guatemalans everyday. My boss is from El Salvador. I'm the only gringo in the entire company and I'v been to the countries you just mentioned. If your going to use south and central America as an example you picked the wrong guy to argue with.

It is, since the immigrants in the Netherlands moved in for the same reasons as those who moved into the US: better opportunity (excluding African American/Chinese migration as slaves/forced labour to the Americas).

True. But its not the same world as it was when American was growing. The mass immigration to the Netherlands isn't fueled by the same circumstances as was America. The world is just a different place.