AGP, PCI-E, PCI? Differences?

RadeonProVega · Mar 6, 2009

I am just curious , how fast is AGP compared to PCI?
Not looking at wikipedia or looking around, i am asking people from experience. Say for example,

If i use a 2400HD AGP card the 512MB vs a ATI 2400 256MB PCI card, how much faster in performance or in general would the 2400HD agp version be over the 2400HD PCI?
Thats a example.

On another question, how good is AGP in general.?

Mussels · Mar 6, 2009

AGP shits all over PCI, but you just cant get modern cards in AGP, therefore PCI-E craps all over AGP through no fault of its own.

the AGP card will be a lot faster - the PCI bus is just too slow for 3D cards of any variety.

spearman914 · Mar 6, 2009

pci = 33 MHz
AGP = 66 MHz

It's not twice as fast but more. To consider an upgrade i would jump to PCI-E.

X-Terminator · Mar 6, 2009

u2konline said:
I am just curious , how fast is AGP compared to PCI?
Not looking at wikipedia or looking around, i am asking people from experience. Say for example,

If i use a 2400HD AGP card the 512MB vs a ATI 2400 256MB PCI card, how much faster in performance or in general would the 2400HD agp version be over the 2400HD PCI?
Thats a example.

On another question, how good is AGP in general.?

I'm pretty sure he means PCIe Not PCI, because they don't make the 2400HD in PCI.

ShadowFold · Mar 6, 2009

AGP is NOT worth it at all nowadays. Just get a cheap 50$ 740G motherboard and a Athlon X2 if you really want to upgrade.

X-Terminator said:
I'm pretty sure he means PCIe Not PCI, because they don't make the 2400HD in PCI.

No he is talking PCI and they do make HD 2400 PCI

X-Terminator · Mar 6, 2009

ShadowFold said:
AGP is NOT worth it at all nowadays. Just get a cheap 50$ 740G motherboard and a Athlon X2 if you really want to upgrade.

No he is talking PCI and they do make HD 2400 PCI

sorry about that u r right they do make it in PCI also with a Speed of 33 MHz

My bad :nutkick:

niko084 · Mar 6, 2009

spearman914 said:
pci = 33 MHz
AGP = 66 MHz

It's not twice as fast but more. To consider an upgrade i would jump to PCI-E.

The Freq is not everything...

PCI-E 16x v3 - 16GB/s
PCI-E 16x v2 - 8GB/s
PCI-E 16x - 4GB/s
AGP 8x - 2.1GB/s
AGP 4x - 1.06GB/s
PCI - 133 MB/s

So, now that has been cleared...
If you want to upgrade to a AGP card, it very likely could be worth it if you are not facing a full upgrade in the near future.

Mussels · Mar 6, 2009

PCI is 33Mhz, 133MB/s SHARED between all devices on the PCI bus (IDE, sound cards, etc)

AGP is 66Mhz but dont forget there is AGP 2x 4x and 8x (2.1GB/s as stated above) - and its just the one device on the bus

PCI-E is 100MHz, but as we know its got 1x (125MB/s) 4x 8x and 16x. PCI-E devices dont share bandwidth, so they dont have the same problem as PCI. PCI-E is bi-directional as well, so if its 125MB/s, thats means BOTH ways can do 125MB/s at the same time.

95Viper · Mar 6, 2009

@Mussels> AGP is even more powerful...Quote from PCWorld AU article:"AGP has the ability to quadruple the theoretical bandwidth of current PCI buses, and has the potential to perform even higher. This increased performance is achieved by introducing a dedicated point-to-point channel that gives the graphics controller direct access to main system memory. In addition, the AGP channel is 32 bits wide and runs at 66MHz, which translates into a total bandwidth of 266MBps.

AGP also supports two fast modes, 2x and 4x, which have throughputs of 533MBps and 1.07GBps respectively. Features such as texturing and pipelining further enhance the graphics processing ability of AGP. Texturing, also called Direct Memory Execute mode, allows texture data to be stored in main memory. Pipelining is a process that enables the graphics card to send several instructions together instead of sending one at a time." @ http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/118661/pci_vs_agp

I learn-ed sumtin' toda...Durn Aussies know everything!

EiSFX · Mar 6, 2009

whats funny in some instanstances when we were still useing PCI-E v1 and v1.1 the AGP counter parts like the X1950 pro and the 7800GS actully outperformed the PCI-E versions in most games but since PCI-E v2 thats not the case anymore so yes AGP is a crap load better then any PCI card

niko084 · Mar 6, 2009

EiSFX said:
whats funny in some instanstances when we were still useing PCI-E v1 and v1.1 the AGP counter parts like the X1950 pro and the 7800GS actully outperformed the PCI-E versions in most games but since PCI-E v2 thats not the case anymore so yes AGP is a crap load better then any PCI card

You are actually correct in that also, the AGP design is more efficient I guess you could say.
If they were to cross the technologies it would be great.
But- PCI-E v2 doesn't fix that issue, it just adds more bandwidth.

AGP is faster than PCI-E v1, v1.1, v2 or even v3 up until the point that bandwidth of the slot limits the card.

Now to top that off, good luck getting a C2D or Phenom with a AGP slot

Mussels · Mar 6, 2009

the reason some AGP cards outperformed their PCI-E flavours was because they were still AGP cards, with a bridge chip to make them work in PCI-E. the bridge chip 'adaptor' caused some small slowdowns.

RadeonProVega · Mar 6, 2009

Well the reason i am asking is , not going to get into too much detail, but i will say 2 things.

#1 I have made a decision to start back shopping online, things has change now. Newegg + postal money orders. So for future video cards i will shop at newegg for video cards. ( but i will still shop at best buy, walmart , only if i find a card for a good deal )

#2 I just bought a new computer today , it has 3.0 Ghz on it. (this is stock btw)

I will share the rest of the good news with everyone either tomorrow or later.

kiriakost · Mar 6, 2009

niko084 said:
The Freq is not everything...

PCI-E 16x - 4GB/s
AGP 8x - 2.1GB/s
AGP 4x - 1.06GB/s

I will speak with facts , real facts ...

I own one of the perfect made AGP + CPU + modo , seeing it from the same view , as INTEL has plan it to be .

The only software that can measure AGP bandwidth are the old FR demo.

What is on the picture .... its my current bandwidth score with CAT 9.2 with Red color ,
and the CAT 8.12 with Green color .

The deference between the drivers , as effect over the bandwidth are tremendous .
Logically , i have to move back to CAT 8.12 .

Lets see the numbers as AGP evaluation .

The 3D score of one HD3850 OCED to 720/850 , looks to be as 690-700 Megabytes per second.

Quick calculation = three HD3850 = 2.1GB Bandwith

Conclusion =
1) True AGP bandwith , has nothing to do with CPU scalling

2) I do not know the name or model of the card, that offers triple performance over the HD3850

, if i was , i would call it as maximum or ... end of the road for one AGP based board .

3) If we think this facts totaly open minded , we will admit , that AGP was blamed and removed by the silly marketing hypes , before its time .

4) i love my AGP system , even today , because still stands, very well.

Thanks you .

.

KainXS · Mar 6, 2009

I wanna see this new P4 system of yours, is this gonna replace your P3 system

lol

Mussels · Mar 6, 2009

kiriakost said:
I will speak with facts , real facts ...

I own one of the perfect made AGP + CPU + modo , seeing it from the same view , as INTEL has plan it to be .

The only software that can measure AGP bandwidth are the old FR demo.

What is on the picture .... its my current bandwidth score with CAT 9.2 with Red color ,
and the CAT 8.12 with Green color .

The deference between the drivers , as effect over the bandwidth are tremendous .
Logically , i have to move back to CAT 8.12 .

Lets see the numbers as AGP evaluation .

The 3D score of one HD3850 OCED to 720/850 , looks to be as 690-700 Megabytes per second.

Quick calculation = three HD3850 = 2.1GB Bandwith

Conclusion =
1) True AGP bandwith , has nothing to do with CPU scalling

2) I do not know the name or model of the card, that offers triple performance over the HD3850 , if i was , i would call it as maximum or ... end of the road for one AGP based board .

3) If we think this facts totaly open minded , we will admit , that AGP was blamed and removed by the silly marketing hypes , before its time .

4) i love my AGP system , even today , because still stands, very well.

Thanks you .

.

AGP was one slot per board, with an independant bus purely for video cards.

PCI and PCI-E are designed for anything you want, Video cards, RAID cards, network cards, sound cards.

AGP was also limited power-wise, i'm sure you wouldnt like the amount of connectors a modern card like an 8800GTX or 4870x2 would need, if it was still on AGP.

Oh and dont forget, without PCI-E theres no SLI or crossfire.

RevengE · Mar 6, 2009

Sweet mother of god..u2 bought a new computer? I have to see pics to believe this even if it is a P4.

eidairaman1 · Mar 6, 2009

AGP is Pretty Strong when you compare Cards that are on both formats, aka 3850, 1950 Pro. My card beats out the 3650 and 2600XT series in just about all games. Now if you want you can max out the AGP with the 3850. My machine i would have to push the clocks a little higher to be able to utilize the 3850 Speeds (1.8 GHZ was bottlenecking the 1950 pro, OC to 2.2GHz no problems).

but to compare PCI express Slots, apparently PCI E 4 is the same as AGP 8X.

if you want a spare machine that is good at games, id suggest you build a new one first and use the old one as a secondary machine.

RadeonX2 · Mar 6, 2009

xRevengEx said:
Sweet mother of god..u2 bought a new computer? I have to see pics to believe this even if it is a P4.

ya I wanna see it :toast:

RadeonProVega · Mar 6, 2009

KainXS said:
I wanna see this new P4 system of yours, is this gonna replace your P3 system
lol

I will scan it from my printer and upload some photos soon. I have to scan everything, no camera :laugh:

How did you know i have a Pentium 4 tho? I said its 3.0ghz on it, at stock? I always wanted a p4 anyway, just one step up above a p3 lol. I guess in 2030 i will buy a Intel Pentium Dual core :laugh:

xRevengEx said:
Sweet mother of god..u2 bought a new computer? I have to see pics to believe this even if it is a P4.

Yea i have it lol, finally. I told y'all i was always looking. I just like to shop for those type of items in stores in my area, and i am very cheap. I only paid 50 dollars for it. But keep in mind, i am not on a budget.

eidairaman1 said:
if you want a spare machine that is good at games, id suggest you build a new one first and use the old one as a secondary machine.

No building, already bought one. But you are right, my p3 i will use as my secondary rig. And this new one, for my main rig.

Anyways, i will report back soon with more information.
peace

Error 404 · Mar 6, 2009

RadeonX2 said:
ya I wanna see it

Yup, especially one with "3 GHz on it".
Simple comparison, for bandwidth: PCI-E x16 >> AGP >>>>> PCI
Price for card of bus type: PCI/AGP > PCI-E x16
Price of new motherboard supporting: AGP > PCI-E x16

If you want to get a new PC then it is really stupid to get a really cheap one with AGP and expect it to be cheaply upgradeable.
Go for something with current technology and it will be easily and cheaply upgradeable!

eidairaman1 · Mar 6, 2009

Well then i suggest a 3850 To max out your machine as is, and if possible use 3 gigs of ram.

u2konline said:
I will scan it from my printer and upload some photos soon. I have to scan everything, no camera How did you know i have a Pentium 4 tho? I said its 3.0ghz on it, at stock? I always wanted a p4 anyway, just one step up above a p3 lol. I guess in 2030 i will buy a Intel Pentium Dual core

Yea i have it lol, finally. I told y'all i was always looking. I just like to shop for those type of items in stores in my area, and i am very cheap. I only paid 50 dollars for it. But keep in mind, i am not on a budget.

No building, already bought one. But you are right, my p3 i will use as my secondary rig. And this new one, for my main rig.

Anyways, i will report back soon with more information.
peace

KainXS · Mar 6, 2009

Error 404 said:
Yup, especially one with "3 GHz on it".
Simple comparison, for bandwidth: PCI-E x16 >> AGP >>>>> PCI
Price for card of bus type: PCI/AGP > PCI-E x16
Price of new motherboard supporting: AGP > PCI-E x16

If you want to get a new PC then it is really stupid to get a really cheap one with AGP and expect it to be cheaply upgradeable.
Go for something with current technology and it will be easily and cheaply upgradeable!

he loves old stuff and there no way he would buy a HD3850 cause he likes old stuff

let him have fun with his old crap then

Mussels · Mar 6, 2009

AGP 8x is equal to PCI-E 4x, someone said that above.

dont forget that PCI-E 2.0 doubles the bandwidth, pushing AGP 8x to be equal to PCI-E 2.0 2x

AGP was upgraded for reasons other than bandwidth, but hey, modern cards cna use that bandwidth.

I too want to see U2K's 'new' PC

_jM · Mar 6, 2009

KainXS said:
he loves old stuff and there no way he would buy a HD3850 cause he likes old stuff

let him have fun with his old crap then

lol

To me... the 3850 is old news.... and he can get one pretty cheap nowadays.

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AGP, PCI-E, PCI? Differences?

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