GET up to 34% performance increase in DX10 games

[Tatty_Two]

its simple. when a game developer is developing a game, he is adding physics and Nvidia have CUDA which gives CPU's work to GPU.

And on ATI since we don't have it CUDA. the CPU dose the calculation and it overload's the CPU and creates a bottleneck on CPU. so if u use a Nvidia title on ATI card. u can see the CPU will be used heavily and will overload the CPU. even my 9850 @ 3GHZ is running 60% when i play Mirror Edge. and about the control for turning it off is going to reduce the amount of physics, not going to stop physics completely.

So for those kind of games, my tweak driver cannot do much but still it does a little.

i hope this helps

Thats strange, I was under the impression from articles I have read, that if the NVidia Physx sofware suite is not downloaded then specific Physx coding is ignored...... hence ATi cards therefore do not attempt to render physx, unless of course you follow Fit's guide and have a primary ATI card and pop in a secondry NVidia for Physx but even that wont work without the Physx software?..... Did i get it wrong then

I know a fair bit about CUDA and that it is used for a huge range of programming/developing applications/processes but I understood it was directly linked to NVidia's architecture.

 

[SKD007]

So will ATI ever use Cuda then?
WHOOOOOO DOGGIE! You just made a BUTT LOAD of enemies!
I like this guy!

I was a NVIDIA fan long back and now i use ATI. i got the first ATI card for a friend and he was insisting on ATI. i installed it and then in was in love with it.... the rendering was soo nice...

So started doing research. now i support ATI but at times NVIDIA too. the problem is NVIDIA sells Products @ high price when ATI can offer a card 5% slower and 20% cheaper, why cant NVIDIA

I dont own ATI or NVIDIA. so all i care is i need a good product

 

[SKD007]

Thats strange, I was under the impression from articles I have read, that if the NVidia Physx sofware suite is not downloaded then specific Physx coding is ignored...... hence ATi cards therefore do not attempt to render physx, unless of course you follow Fit's guide and have a primary ATI card and pop in a secondry NVidia for Physx but even that wont work without the Physx software?..... Did i get it wrong then

I know a fair bit about CUDA and that it is used for a huge range of programming/developing applications/processes but I understood it was directly linked to NVidia's architecture.

Nop u got it wrong. CUDA is different and Physx is different. both can join hands when Physx is installed. that why Nvidia started giving drivers with Physx and CUDA as one single pack

CUDA is like a software which can take work from CPU and give it to GPU and
Physx is a software which reads the GAME Physx code and talks directly to CUDA shell

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Thats right if u want to compare a nvidia card with ATI. then select 8x on ATI and 8xq on Nvidia and see what ATI is its a powerhouse Nvidia is always using tricks to beat ATI and no one really knows about it....

All the NVIDIA titles will have this xQ thing. that's why NVIDIA provides HARDWARE support to game developers, so that they will favor NVIDIA

When AA is MAX.. u will know who the real winner is. and on top of all that.. dx tweaking to make Hollow textures o reduce the load on GPU

That's why nvidia sucks in quality.........

Excellent information here folks. I feel like I am in one of those "The more you know" commercials.

So let me see if I got this straight. If there is no information in a video card review about the control panel's settings we really don't know what settings were tweaked? As the control panel can:
-use optimizations when Textures are set to Quality (bilinear filtering)
-can enable CSAA which is a reduction # of Color/Z/Stencil Samples from MSAA when applying AA even though AA is still enabled in games. Something that current Radeon video cards can't do that I am aware of.


The only way to get an idea of each card is make changes to the control panel. If you want 8xAA then you have to set it to 8xQ. If you want AF results you have to set the control panel to Textures= High Quality, etc.

So will ATI ever use Cuda then?


...

I like this guy!

If the information presented here in this thread is accurate then I really don't see why AMD should.

 

[btarunr]

Nop u got it wrong. CUDA is different and Physx is different. both can join hands when Physx is installed. that why Nvidia started giving drivers with Physx and CUDA as one single pack

CUDA is like a software which can take work from CPU and give it to GPU and
Physx is a software which reads the GAME Physx code and talks directly to CUDA shell

He seems to know that.

 

[SKD007]

Excellent information here folks. I feel like I am in one of those "The more you know" commercials.

So let me see if I got this straight. If there is no information in a video card review about the control panel's settings we really don't know what settings were tweaked? As the control panel can:
-use optimizations when Textures are set to Quality (bilinear filtering)
-can enable CFAA which is a reduction # of Color/Z/Stencil Samples from MSAA when applying AA even though AA is still enabled in games. Something that current Radeon video cards can't do that I am aware of.

The only way to get an idea of each card is make changes to the control panel. If you want 8xAA then you have to set it to 8xQ. If you want AF results you have to set the control panel to Textures= High Quality, etc.

If the information presented here in this thread is accurate then I really don't see why AMD should.

U r right

ATI will support all that u mentioned, but u cannot FORCE them like they do on NVIDIA

 

[EastCoasthandle]

U r right

ATI will support all that u mentioned, but u cannot FORCE them like they do on NVIDIA

Oh I almost forgot, Texture= Quality is the default setting in the control panel. So when we see reviews we should read that the setting was changed. If not, we don't know what happened.

Now lets wrap this up, if there are optimizations for Radeon cards (which is what you made available in the OP) that doesn't alter IQ (unless I am mistaken on what your optimizations do) then there is still a lot of performance to be had in future Cat releases (well at least I hope they are). ....Still waits for the DX9 version from you...

BTW:
By "forcing them" I assume you mean that you may have to disable AA in game or something else?

 

[Tatty_Two]

Nop u got it wrong. CUDA is different and Physx is different. both can join hands when Physx is installed. that why Nvidia started giving drivers with Physx and CUDA as one single pack

CUDA is like a software which can take work from CPU and give it to GPU and
Physx is a software which reads the GAME Physx code and talks directly to CUDA shell

Ohhhhh right, well here are the 2 links where I did my reading a few months ago........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/nvidia_physx_uk.html

 

[TheMailMan78]

See Iv always wondered about Physx. I don't have a Physx card nor do I have an Nvidia but yet when I install certain games it also installs the drivers. Are these just wasting HD space or am I using them somehow?

 

[SKD007]

Oh I almost forgot, Texture= Quality is the default setting in the control panel. So when we see reviews we should read that the setting was changed. If not, we don't know what happened.

Now lets wrap this up, if there are optimizations for Radeon cards (which is what you made available in the OP) that doesn't alter IQ (unless I am mistaken on what your optimizations do) then there is still a lot of performance to be had in future Cat releases (well at least I hope they are). ....Still waits for the DX9 version from you...

BTW:
By "forcing them" I assume you mean that you may have to disable AA in game or something else?

ya... u can choose multisampling instead of supersampling and use lot of other options. even if the game don't support. on nvidia u can force them

u can easily make a 8800GT beat 4850 hands down with CP tweaking alone sadly i tried it

 

[EastCoasthandle]

See Iv always wondered about Physx. I don't have a Physx card nor do I have an Nvidia but yet when I install certain games it also installs the drivers. Are these just wasting HD space or am I using them somehow?

Physx can be both hardware accelerated (physx card/GPU) or software accelerated (CPU bound), depending on the game.

ya... u can choose multisampling instead of supersampling and use lot of other options. even if the game don't support. on nvidia u can force them

u can easily make a 8800GT beat 4850 hands down with CP tweaking alone sadly i tried it

You can reduce overall IQ just to increase frame rate?:shadedshu

 

[SKD007]

See Iv always wondered about Physx. I don't have a Physx card nor do I have an Nvidia but yet when I install certain games it also installs the drivers. Are these just wasting HD space or am I using them somehow?

You are using it m8, the game makes the physix to work on CPU resulting in bottlenecking the performance

Its simple. any GAME asking for physix. ATI don't stand a chance

should appreciate NVIDIA'S Crooked smartness on that

 

[SKD007]

Physx can be both hardware accelerated or software accelerated, depending on the game.

You can reduce overall IQ just to increase frame rate?:shadedshu

Ya you are right, but your question has the answer . software acceleration which uses your CPU to process the software and its calculations

And do u know that the old AGIA physix card is more powerful than a 9600GT click here

 

[EastCoasthandle]

You are using it m8, the game makes the physix to work on CPU resulting in bottlenecking the performance

Its simple. any GAME asking for physix. ATI don't stand a chance

should appreciate NVIDIA'S Crooked smartness on that

So let me see if I understand this correctly...If a game uses cuda in one form or another it can bottleneck the CPU for Radeon Cards to a point were performance is decreased? If I am incorrect, please elaborate so I understand you.

 

[TheMailMan78]

So is a physx card worth investing in? Iv always been a fan of Havok.

 

[SKD007]

So let me see if I understand this correctly...If a game uses cuda in one form or another it can bottleneck the CPU for Radeon Cards to a point were performance is decreased? If I am incorrect, please elaborate so I understand you.

I don't think i have to elaborate . you understood it right, except that not CUDA but Physix bottlenecks the ATI rig

 

[SKD007]

So is a physx card worth investing in? Iv always been a fan of Havok.

If you want performance on ATI cards with Physix Games. then u have to buy one

 

[TheMailMan78]

If you want performance on ATI cards with Physix Games. then u have to buy one

Wont true DX10/11 games make use of the steam pros. making Physix obsolete?

 

[SKD007]

Wont true DX10/11 games make use of the steam pros. making Physix obsolete?

Microsoft is giving it for free with DX11, but Microsoft wont give hardware to game developers right.

so nvidia will give hardware support and the developers will use physix to support Nvidia simple logic

 

[TheMailMan78]

Microsoft is giving it for free with DX11, but Microsoft wont give hardware to game developers right.

so nvidia will give hardware support and the developers will use physix to support Nvidia simple logic

I'm confused. Why would Microsoft pigeonhole itself to a physics engine?

 

[SKD007]

I'm confused. Why would Microsoft pigeonhole itself to a physics engine?

Microsoft is using something called OpenCL in DX11 which is supported by both ATI & Nvidia

Which allows game developer to program in a language which can be used on any GRAPHICS cards.
but Nvidia wont allow that... because Nvidia will loose big time to ATI if both start using same physics, and will be a lose for nvidia. coz they invested millions on buying Agia Physix right.

so they will force game developers to use Physix not ray-tracing through open CL

 

[SKD007]

but there is a benefit for ATI users. DX11 enables Stream processing for all applications on windows which is like Microsoft CUDA and will have better performance if you have ATI card
and about ray-tracing it can give real physics, REAL shadows, REAL refraction, REAL Physics, REAL particle Hair, etc

 

[InnocentCriminal]

So, has anyone tested out Saikamaldoss' drivers yet?

 

[human_error]

I'm confused. Why would Microsoft pigeonhole itself to a physics engine?

They aren't. Microsoft is going to have directx physics API (openCl, not owned by MS but they will use it), which is not physx and will be implementable in hardware on ati and nvidia gpu's (all they have to do is map the api commands to cuda equivalent commands for nvidia cards and stream equivalent commands on ATI gpus (stream is the ati equivalent of cuda)).

so they will force game developers to use Physix not open CL

That won't work, game developers will not waste resources on an API which can't be used with all graphics cards when there is a free, fully directx integrated api available which will work with all graphics cards, and against the might of microsoft and directx/opencl nvidia has a lot less influence over developers.

 

[FilipM]

So this means we actually hacked how nvidia truly works with cuda and stuff. Nice thread, good job on the optimising aswell.